View Poll Results: How long should a workshop be?

Voters
19. You may not vote on this poll
  • 1 Hour

    0 0%
  • 2 Hours

    4 21.05%
  • 3 Hours

    8 42.11%
  • 4 Hours

    1 5.26%
  • 5 Hours

    1 5.26%
  • 6 Hours

    0 0%
  • 7 Hours

    0 0%
  • As long as it needs to be

    3 15.79%
  • How long is a piece of string?

    2 10.53%
  • Workshops? PAH! I spit on them!!!

    0 0%
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Thread: How long should a workshop be?

  1. #1
    Commercial Operator Gus's Avatar
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    Question How long should a workshop be?

    In the 'good old days' as a CTA instructor, all workshops were a statutory 4 hours long. Over time, I came to realise that this seemed too long for dancers to keep their concentration, even for just a moves workshop. Vicktor's workshops addressed this in part by being two 2-hour workshops, one style, the other moves. This was better but the last hour was still a killer.

    Having given this some thought, and consulted with some training collegaues, I thought a suite of 1-hour modules with breaks was the answer, with dancers doing no more than 3 in a day ... I saw this about the limit of most peoples ability to comprehend and retain at the same time as doing physical activity.

    However, thats just a theory. Before I launch into developing workshops on this principle I'm keen to see what the masses think. How long do you feel comfortable with ... is 1 hour a waste of getting out of bed for, does your brain go numb after 2? Part of my curiosity of seeing that the School of Excellence is teaching a heavyweight workhop over SIX hours. Is this a model that would work? ... use your votes carefully.
    Last edited by Gus; 15th-December-2008 at 10:40 PM. Reason: .... spelling .. :-(

  2. #2
    Registered User David Franklin's Avatar
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    Re: How long should a workshop be?

    Depends on lots of things. Off the top of my head

    • Is it all one topic or can you break things into different areas?
    • How physically demanding is it?
    • How much 'break time' can you provide?
    • How much of a 'special opportunity' is it? [To elaborate: if you had a once-in-a-lifetime chance to do a workshop with a world class couple, you might want 6+ hours. Even if it was the same couple, if they're going to be teaching every week, 1-2 hours would make more sense].


    Personally, in a 'public' workshop, I expect there'll be stuff I already know, stuff I'm not interested in learning, stuff I'm interested in but can't get anywhere with, and some stuff that I actually like and can learn. So it's not like most "4 hour" workshops will always involve 4 hours of really active participation.

  3. #3
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    Re: How long should a workshop be?

    It very much depends on how difficult the class is

    After an hour of tuition, I like a short break

    After a second hour I like a longer break

    Then, in an ideal world, two hours of supervised practice

  4. #4
    Forum Bombshell - Our Queen! Lory's Avatar
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    Re: How long should a workshop be?

    It depends on how engaging the teacher is.
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  5. #5
    Registered User Poi Boi's Avatar
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    Re: How long should a workshop be?

    Most peoples attention startes to wander after an hour, a second hour of the same thing and you will be lucky to have half the people taking anything in without a break.

    I much prefer workshops in small chunks that have a theme, ie an hour on footwork, an hour on style, an hour on not looking like a burke etc etc. Give people sufficient breaks, add some tea/coffee into the mix, and you will hold peoples attention for a longer time.

    As David Franklin said, it all depends on what it is, how its done and who is teaching.

    But the best criteria would be, how long would the teacher like to be teaching for? If their attention starts to wane after an hour, then they won't want to teach for longer without a break.

  6. #6
    Registered User NZ Monkey's Avatar
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    Re: How long should a workshop be?

    Quote Originally Posted by David Franklin View Post
    [*]How much of a 'special opportunity' is it? [To elaborate: if you had a once-in-a-lifetime chance to do a workshop with a world class couple, you might want 6+ hours. Even if it was the same couple, if they're going to be teaching every week, 1-2 hours would make more sense].[/list]
    Quote Originally Posted by Lory
    It depends on how engaging the teacher is.


    Given the opportunity, with a world class teacher I'll take as much time as I can get. A few years ago I spent almost a month in Tokyo training sword with the headmaster of a very old school. Those were approximately 12 hour days, 6 days a week. It probably wasn't quite "optimum" training schedule for retention and recovery, but you learn an incredible amount from the immersion with someone really good.

    Of course, that only worked because we were eating, drinking and sleeping it over an extended period. You tend to get very spongelike under those conditions. I suppose that’s why similar techniques are used in brainwashing. Hmmmmmmm….. that may not be such a good thing after all

    With a very good teacher and managed breaks a long period of time can just fly by, but It pays if you have a supply of nuts and chocolates for the break as well to help keep energy levels up. If you’re not quite that engaging then shorter periods are better, but I’d hesitate to call something shorter than a couple of hours a workshop.

    My expectation is that a decent workshop should probably around three hours, and on a themed topic so there is something to link it all together in some logical manner.

  7. #7
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    Re: How long should a workshop be?

    I actually think that 4 hours is about right and I did not realise that this was the standard. When you are learning a completely new style for instance a tango workshop you need to take in some of the basic rules before you even start to dance. As long as you have at least 3 breaks for resting your mind and taking in fluids I would have thought we are capable of concentrating for that amount of time.

    I also often find that the last hour of the workshop is when it all fall into place and you start to grasp what is expected from you.


  8. #8
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    Re: How long should a workshop be?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lory View Post
    It depends on how engaging the teacher is.

    I've been to 45 minute workshops that were too long, and four hour workshops that were too short. I find it impossible to generalise on this one.

  9. #9
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    Re: How long should a workshop be?

    I always give people breaks in workshops as this seems to help concentration. I provide lots of fruit, choccies, soft drinks, juices, tea & coffee to keep people hydrated and keep up their sugar levels. I also break up the workshops with different short sessions on technique, musicality, etc.

    Having done all that, I've found from experience that 4 hours is a bit too long for some people. Some guys, rarely women, reach a sort of saturation point where they can't take in any more new stuff.

    Nowadays I tell people that the workshop is designed to run for 3 or 3.5 hours. I tell them that they should be prepared for the workshop to run over by 30 minutes in case we need to spend extra time on anything. This way I get a bit of flexibility - I mostly use this flexibility to give a longer break if I see people getting befuddled. Also, I can use this break to coach an individual if they seem to get stuck with anything.

  10. #10
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    Re: How long should a workshop be?

    There are two separate issues here - one is the length of the workshop, the other is how people like workshops to be structured. I think it's important not to conflate the two.

    Three hours seems to be the magic number for me. I've assumed that the workshop is worthwhile (ie it contains 'stuff' I want to learn, taught by someone who knows that 'stuff' and knows how to teach).

    Most of the workshops I've done have been either three or four hours long. In the four hour workshops, I've found the last hour has always been wasted (more precisely, my brain has been wasted, so I've learnt nothing). In the three hour workshops, if they're well stuctured and well paced, I've still learnt stuff in the last hour.

    There is a lot of research on learning and attention spans. Most of it is conducted on children (actual children, not childish adults), so has limted relevance. But the concensus is that our ability to pay attention in a teaching environment is much shorter than we like to think and our ability to retain knowledge is far lower than we realise. Then you get into the trick parts, that different people learn in very differrent ways; the teaching style has a huge on the type of learning and individual will engage in. For me, I'm very linear/logical so process verbal information much more effectively than visual information.

    The best workshops I've been to are, without question, ones that you get given a lot of stuff to think about and work on after the workshop. One thing that seems lacking from MJ is the idea of prctice drills or exercises and to improve your dancing (I suspect the top tier of dancers do this; but they are a very small number of dancers). For the majority of people, MJ means, at most classes, workshops and freestyle.

    Most people giving workshops allow the punters to video the moves/routine/exercises. One additional thing I think would incredibly useful to all workshops is to add a set of notes. This should include the moves/exercises in the workshop with key points about each one (not necesarily a step by step guide). Combine this with the video and the exercise within the and you have a hugely valuable resource.

  11. #11
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    Re: How long should a workshop be?

    3 hrs.

    15 min break.

    Based on no information whatsoever.

  12. #12
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    Re: How long should a workshop be?

    I don't know... 1 hour of teaching sounds about right, as long as there is at least the same amount of time dedicated to practising what is taught. This could be through the workshop or at the end - you need to ingest the material.

    The concept behind most workshops* could probably be given in 5 mins. The remainder of time is normally using moves to show it in practice and refining the understanding.

    * "Most" referring to technical workshops rather than move based workshops.

    (although I've never actually paid any attention to time any workshops I've been on... except for when they start.)

  13. #13
    Registered User ant's Avatar
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    Re: How long should a workshop be?

    Quote Originally Posted by geoff332 View Post
    In the four hour workshops, I've found the last hour.... my brain has been wasted,
    Originally Posted by Andy McGregor
    from experience ... 4 hours is a bit too long ....guys, rarely women, reach a sort of saturation point where they can't take in any more new stuff.
    Originally Posated by Maxine
    I actually think that 4 hours is about right ....the last hour of the workshop is when it all fall into place

    Assuming good teaching and subject matter, reasonable brakes etc I find after about 3 hours my brain does reach saturation point and find that last hour very tough.

    However when I go with a partner they generally find that final hour very useful. That seems to be whats coming over on this thread. Guys find the final hour of a 4 hour workshop tough and ladies don't.

    However when you can spend that final hour practising what you have learnt, I find that useful.

    The joys of organising a workshop and keeping everybody happy.

  14. #14
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    Re: How long should a workshop be?

    There are at least two different activities in a dance workshop. The first is absorbing new information, the second is prsctising it. Most people cannot last an hour absorbing spoken instruction. Practising is a completely different thing. The more practise the more automatic it becomes. "muscle memory" comes into play.

    SCD is an example. There is probably about 45 minutes instruction in the dance and the particular routine, styling etc, but they practise that for hour after hour, and it all counts. It is more training than learning.

  15. #15
    Commercial Operator Gus's Avatar
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    Re: How long should a workshop be?

    Thanks for the input. The two series of workshops have now been designed. One is aimed at beginner/improvers, the other for improving intermediates ... BUT they are following a similar format. 3 1-hour modules with a recap/review seesion at the end and breaks between modules 1 and 2.

    I've gone with a modular approach as I find it helps me to put together a workshop and will help for future recycling of material. A workshop ir rarely on just ONE subject, rather they tend to cover moves, movement, technique etc. My view is that if I've got a library fo 15 or so 30min/1 hour modules, I'll be able to select the right four or five modules that a particular workshop/clientèle require. Well, thats the theory ... by the end of Feb, when we've delivered the first two workshops, I should know whether it works in practice.

    By the way, FWIW I think ant MJ with normal punters that is over four hours is CRAZY! I just don't see how punters will be able to stay focused, unless the teacher is an expert in coaching/delivery (IMHO ).

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