Free the Ashford One

[David Bailey]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7753763.stm

I can't believe how much I'm really hating this Government now; they're an almost-perfect blend of nastiness and incompetence.

I'm looking forward to voting these... people... out in 2010. Yes, even if it means having a Tory governmnent. And I never thought I'd say that.

[Stuart M]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7753763.stm

I can't believe how much I'm really hating this Government now; they're an almost-perfect blend of nastiness and incompetence.

I'm looking forward to voting these... people... out in 2010. Yes, even if it means having a Tory governmnent. And I never thought I'd say that.

You know, at first glance Cameron using the phrase "Stalinesque" seemed a bit strong. Then I realised that the headline here might as well have been "Senior opposition politician arrested", which really is a standard line the BBC would use in stories about Zimbabwe, or Myanmar, or - well - the old USSR.

A disturbing situation, regardless of whether blame ultimately lies with the police or the government here. By extension, blame pretty much does lie with the government, because even if the police are being heavy-handed, it's this government who were stupid enough to give them too much power in the first place.

[David Bailey]

You know, at first glance Cameron using the phrase "Stalinesque" seemed a bit strong. Then I realised that the headline here might as well have been "Senior opposition politician arrested", which really is a standard line the BBC would use in stories about Zimbabwe, or Myanmar, or - well - the old USSR.

Good comparison here:

[philsmove]

So let’s just imagine, you are the head of Special Branch

You have reason to believe that Damian Green may indeed involved in a terrorist plot

What are you going to do?

Do you turn a blind eye to the information, just because he is the shadow immigration minister?

[tsh]

So let’s just imagine, you are the head of Special Branch

You have reason to believe that Damian Green may indeed involved in a terrorist plot

What are you going to do?

Do you turn a blind eye to the information, just because he is the shadow immigration minister?

There are easier ways of solving problems like that than arresting people.

[David Bailey]

So let’s just imagine, you are the head of Special Branch

You have reason to believe that Damian Green may indeed involved in a terrorist plot

It's not a terrorist plot. At the very most, it's an obscure public order offence.

There's quite a lot of difference between the two, as I'm sure you'll agree.

Oh, and Gordon Brown publicized a lot of stuff in the mid-80s as an opposition MP, all supplied via leaks. Maybe he needs to be arrested too?

At the heart of the matter, it's an opposition MP being harassed for trying to expose truths that the Government doesn't want us to know, because they're embarassing to the people in power.

In other words, the MP was doing his job and trying to hold the Government to account.

[Stuart M]

So let’s just imagine, you are the head of Special Branch

You have reason to believe that Damian Green may indeed involved in a terrorist plot

What are you going to do?

Do you turn a blind eye to the information, just because he is the shadow immigration minister?

No, but you should have a very strong case before raiding his/her house. And if the list of leaks suggested in the BBC report DB linked to are the trigger for this, we're a long way from watertight, frankly. As is often the case in such matters, we're being asked to trust the authorities as "they know best".

Incidentally, reading the Guardian report, Gordon Brown used a rather odd turn of phrase in denying any knowledge of the arrest:

The independence of the police is what should be upheld. I hope that everybody can feel able to uphold both the independence of the police and the statement that no minister was involved.

Sounds a bit like legalese to me. The Speaker and the Mayor of London knew this operation was "going down": seems a bit odd that the Home Secretary didn't.

[David Bailey]

As is often the case in such matters, we're being asked to trust the authorities as "they know best".

Or, "If you've nothing to hide, you've nothing to fear"

Sounds a bit like legalese to me. The Speaker and the Mayor of London knew this operation was "going down": seems a bit odd that the Home Secretary didn't.

What, are you suggesting we can't trust our Home Secretary?

What is the world coming to...

[philsmove]

No, but you should have a very strong case before raiding his/her house. .

Remember, Counter Terrorism Command are in charge of trying to prevent, really nasty things happening

You are in chage of Counter Terrorism and think something is going to happen, do you act, or wait until you have a very strong case

We have discussed Baby P and a lot of people seem to think social services should have acted sooner, rather than wait until they had a very strong case

[David Bailey]

Remember, Counter Terrorism Command are in charge of trying to prevent, really nasty things happening

Sure, but this wasn't a terrorist case. There was no terrorism, there was not even any suspected terrorism.

Surely the argument kind of falls apart after that?

[philsmove]

OK Sorry, did not know that. Have the Police issued a statement why they searched his house and arrested him

[pmjd]

Sure, but this wasn't a terrorist case. There was no terrorism, there was not even any suspected terrorism.

Surely the argument kind of falls apart after that?

I remember hearing on the news today the met saying that it was more a case of the counter terrorism officers were apparently the ones best suited to for the operation?? You would think that with there previously being claims of not enough officers to track suspected al qaeda terrorists that they'd have been busy enough. Today is also the last day in office of Iain Blair, and due to Boris being behind his sacking as chief of the met there was the suggestion that it was a parting shot against the conservatives...

Was also fun seeing Jacqui Smith giving the same answer, no matter what the question was, in a news report today

[David Bailey]

OK Sorry, did not know that. Have the Police issued a statement why they searched his house and arrested him

From here:

The police say they arrested Mr Green on suspicion of "conspiring to commit misconduct in a public office" and "aiding and abetting, counselling or procuring misconduct in a public office".

Also:

Has this happened before?

No. It is unprecedented for an MP to be arrested and his office searched by police in connection with a leak inquiry. Mr Green is suspected of committing a common law offence, under an obscure and little-used piece of legislation. Legal experts have said charges are unlikely to be brought, and unlikely to succeed if they did go ahead.

[philsmove]

Thanks

One would have thought counter-terrorism officers had better things to do

[David Bailey]

I remember hearing on the news today the met saying that it was more a case of the counter terrorism officers were apparently the ones best suited to for the operation??

Well, you know those 52-year-old Conservative MPs, they can't be trusted not to blow themselves up at the slightest provocation. Probably safest just to shoot them in the head a few times.

Seriously, that part of it is more a terminology thing - they were Special Branch, who are normally the guys called in to investigate leaks, they're just now classiified as anti-terrorist for some reason.

[bigdjiver]

... One would have thought counter-terrorism officers had better things to do

One of the skills needed by counter terrorism officers is to investigate electronic communication devices - computers, mobile phones etc. These skills are in short supply. Any police officer possessing them is likely to be drafted into counter terrorism. When such skills are needed elsewhere it is possible that they have to be borrowed from the counter terrorism branch.

If elected the arrested "victim" would be responsible for keeping Government information confidential. I think we would hear less of "the public's right to know" then.

[pmjd]

A journalist charged with a similar offence by Thames vallley police was acquited today

One of the skills needed by counter terrorism officers is to investigate electronic communication devices - computers, mobile phones etc. These skills are in short supply. Any police officer possessing them is likely to be drafted into counter terrorism. When such skills are needed elsewhere it is possible that they have to be borrowed from the counter terrorism branch.

Ahh, thanks for that.

If elected the arrested "victim" would be responsible for keeping Government information confidential. I think we would hear less of "the public's right to know" then.

Why? Of the four bits of info leaked none of them are a threat to the safety of the country or population at large. The government should be opened up to accountability a hell of a lot more than it is and it is looking very scary that obscure bits of legislation are being used on someone who received such info, which is not sensitive or going to place the country in dire peril, and told the public about it.

[Agente Secreto]

One of the skills needed by counter terrorism officers is to investigate electronic communication devices - computers, mobile phones etc. These skills are in short supply.

Don't believe it - that's what GCHQ is for and loads of people work there.

It's clearly not a CT operation just because Special Branch is involved. Although the Special Branch is probably most closely associated with CT activities it's remit is actually wider. Wikipedia to thank once more for the description that the Special Branch role is to:

help protect the public (and the state) from national security threats, including terrorism, separatism, subversion and other extremist activity and as such forms part of the United Kingdom intelligence community.

Of course we could make the case the the whole point of political parties is a sort of licensed subversion.

Agent 000
Licensed to Dance

[CJ]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7753763.stm

I can't believe how much I'm really hating this Government now; they're an almost-perfect blend of nastiness and incompetence.

Apparently, what they do is 95% censorship. So, that'll be ok, then??

[bigdjiver]

...Why? Of the four bits of info leaked none of them are a threat to the safety of the country or population at large. The government should be opened up to accountability a hell of a lot more than it is and it is looking very scary that obscure bits of legislation are being used on someone who received such info, which is not sensitive or going to place the country in dire peril, and told the public about it.

The Government conceals far too much information. We are fortunate in having a press that is somewhat independent that digs some of it out. We also have political parties that tend to be hypocritical. All of them, when in power, hunt out whistle-blowers.

An offence was commited. The aggrieved party has a right to make a complaint, and any party in power could be expected to do that. The question here is were the police expected to pursue the matter in such an extreme way?