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Thread: The new super button for moderators.

  1. #21
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    Re: The Nanny State Gone Too far??

    Quote Originally Posted by Trouble View Post
    And i note... only people not happy about the button thread are the ones that were going completely weird on the thread that was shut.!!!
    If U would take the time to show me where I was "completely weird", I'd be grateful.

    My concern is about censorship, about the freedom of debate, (even when it becomes debacle) not about the subject matter.

  2. #22
    Formerly known as DavidJames David Bailey's Avatar
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    Re: The Nanny State Gone Too far??

    Quote Originally Posted by Franck View Post
    fora
    Cor, you're posh you are.

    Quote Originally Posted by Franck View Post
    Nothing would happen if you started a new thread on the same subject, especially if it somehow allowed everyone a fresh start.
    Also an interesting experiment.

    Basically, the Forum's one big messy Petri dish

  3. #23
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    Re: The Nanny State Gone Too far??

    Quote Originally Posted by Franck View Post
    I am also interested in the experiment, and totally agreed with David Bailey closing the thread.

    It wasn't about "you guys, stop, right now!", but more about, "this thread is going in circles now with very little added to it, and more abuse coming out".

    It is useful to see if 'Closing threads' is more controversial than moving them outside and as David Bailey said, it is an experiment, all feedback gratefully received. Many fora use the 'close thread' option very successfully, but I'm not sure if ours is ready for it yet!

    Nothing would happen if you started a new thread on the same subject, especially if it somehow allowed everyone a fresh start.
    Just to clarify, I don't really want to open a new thread about grammar but I wonder if a fresh start would really make things different, in this or in any other case.

    I can see the option of closing threads being useful in some occasions but I'd rather see threads die a natural death Outside rather than being closed.

  4. #24
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    Re: The Nanny State Gone Too far??

    Quote Originally Posted by CJ View Post
    If U would take the time to show me where I was "completely weird", I'd be grateful.

    My concern is about censorship, about the freedom of debate, (even when it becomes debacle) not about the subject matter.
    Actually CJ, you were ok. Your comments were constructive and did not get personal to others.

    Freedom of debate is one thing. Turning a thread into i said this, you said that, i didn't mean that, this is what you meant is in my opinion totally silly then on top of that... little digs and unnecessary comments get chucked in.

    I agree with closing a thread. It gives people a chance to calm down.

    Freedom is still there. As Franck already said, there is nothing to stop you opening up the thread again and starting afresh ie: actually getting back to the point of the thread in the first place or maybe starting a new one that covers something else that came up.

  5. #25
    Formerly known as DavidJames David Bailey's Avatar
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    Re: The Nanny State Gone Too far??

    Quote Originally Posted by CJ View Post
    My concern is about censorship, about the freedom of debate, (even when it becomes debacle) not about the subject matter.
    Moderation is censorship, that's 95% of what we do.

    The job is to keep as much free speech as possible, whilst remaining within the rules and also promoting a friendly and welcoming atmosphere.

    So the questions are:
    • How much censorship / moderation do we as a forum want?
    • What are the most effective tools for the job?

  6. #26
    Registered User martingold's Avatar
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    Re: The Nanny State Gone Too far??

    Quote Originally Posted by David Bailey View Post
    Moderation is censorship, that's 95% of what we do.

    The job is to keep as much free speech as possible, whilst remaining within the rules and also promoting a friendly and welcoming atmosphere.

    So the questions are:
    • How much censorship / moderation do we as a forum want?
    • What are the most effective tools for the job?
    The whole problem with moderating is its a thankless task
    no matter what you do someone will think you have done wrong or done something just to appease a friend
    Personally i think that the level of moderation is about right ok i disagree with certain rules i think i have made myself plain enough on that but in general the moderation is balanced.
    I mean you get lory on one side calm thoughtful etc and then you get djb with his button

  7. #27
    Not a spoon! Lou's Avatar
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    Re: The Nanny State Gone Too far??

    Quote Originally Posted by Trouble View Post

    And i note... only people not happy about the button thread are the ones that were going completely weird on the thread that was shut.!!!


    I have to buck the trend. I think that closing the thread was a bad idea, and I only posted on the old thread to point out that Azande's a bloke (as I know how annoying getting the sex wrong can be ) .

    It's true that posts get more heated once they're outside, but it serves the purpose of clearing the air and keeps the discussion in one place where you can easily avoid it, if you so wish. IMO, closing the thread instead will lead to frustration and I suspect the argument will continue elsewhere where it can be less easily avoided. Besides, all outside posts die a natural death, anyway. Why change something that works so well? I've always thought "outside" was such an enlightened idea - why should this forum move backwards to use methods suited to less sophisticated fora? (nice word, Franck!)

  8. #28
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    Re: The Nanny State Gone Too far??

    Quote Originally Posted by David Bailey View Post
    Moderation is censorship, that's 95% of what we do.

    The job is to keep as much free speech as possible, whilst remaining within the rules and also promoting a friendly and welcoming atmosphere.
    Hence, my concern.

    Would U be happy to point out to me posts where the rules were broken within that thread?

    Friendly and welcoming atmosphere?? Do we start vetting who joins, too??

  9. #29
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    Re: The Nanny State Gone Too far??

    Quote Originally Posted by David Bailey View Post
    It's an experiment.

    The problem we've found with taking "emotive" stuff outside, is that it simply tends to get more emotive - people seem to take the move as license to get even more aggressive.

    So I thought I'd see if closure was more effective as a mechanism.
    Well, eh, closure will be a more effective mechanism, because, eh, no one can post at all*. I can't help but think the thread title has clouded judgement here .

    From what I've seen, closing threads on other fora seems to occur where the potential for legal infringement occurs (certainly not the case here), or the fora in question is huge (not really the case here, comparitively speaking) and so moderation tends to be on the brutal side (increasingly tending to be the case here, sadly). WRT the specific thread in question, it would have been more sensible to let it die a natural death. I'd stopped actively participating in it a while back - as had several others, I suspect. Eventually everyone would, or it would have Gone Outside if necessary.

    Unnecessarily aggressive moderation, if you ask me. It's getting a little tiresome IMO.

    *without going to the hassle of raising an entirely new thread.

  10. #30
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    Re: The new super button for moderators.

    I am slightly surprised by this action (although I did not post on that thread).

    I think one thing that has been mentioned in the past is the importance of face to face contact to help smooth out communication.

    To that end, I propose we have a budget for moderators to become roving peacemakers, which would involve driving to see forumites, have a chat and a cup of tea and a piece of cake, then possibly driving with other forumites to meet up and resolve the issues face to face over another cup of tea and some more cake. If necessary, this could be done internationally to the Antipodes as well for example.

    The other possibility is to take David Bailey to the European Court for infringing the Human Rights of forumites.

  11. #31
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    Re: The Nanny State Gone Too far??

    Quote Originally Posted by Stuart M View Post
    *without going to the hassle of raising an entirely new thread.
    I strongly recommend no-one starts a thread on grammar... U get flamed for being a language snob.

    And, FWIW, I agree with Toaster Boy on this occasion: unnecessary and heavy handed. Who gave the short guy the button?!?!?

  12. #32
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    Re: The new super button for moderators.

    lets face it, the thread was getting a tiny weeny bit Boring

  13. #33
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    Re: The new super button for moderators.

    Quote Originally Posted by philsmove View Post
    lets face it, the thread was getting a tiny weeny bit Boring

  14. #34
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    Re: The new super button for moderators.

    Quote Originally Posted by robd View Post
    Can you imagine any moderator except DB choosing to close a thread?

    No, me neither.
    I was going to suggest it, just haven't had the time this morning. It was the right thing to do. The thread was going no-where but down...
    Let your mind go and your body will follow. – Steve Martin, LA Story

  15. #35
    Registered User David Franklin's Avatar
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    Re: The Nanny State Gone Too far??

    Quote Originally Posted by David Bailey View Post
    Moderation is censorship, that's 95% of what we do.
    Not that I have experience of your side of the fence, but if 95% of what you do is censorship, I suggest you're doing it wrong. (Active spam deletion potentially excepted, if a lot more of that happens than I'm aware of).

    To use a 'bouncer' analogy, yeah, bouncers can get physical. But a good bouncer tries to stop it ever getting that far.

    On this forum, I know there are times when I could have done with a mod giving a gentle nudge saying "You're going a bit far - wanna tone it down?". But this never seems to happen, instead the mods wait for things to blow up and then start deleting and infracting.

    In the thread under discussion, I would have preferred a "Cool it guys, or we'll have to close the thread" warning before it was closed (although I was personally pretty much done with it anyhow).

    Just my $0.02c.

  16. #36
    Formerly known as DavidJames David Bailey's Avatar
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    Re: The Nanny State Gone Too far??

    Quote Originally Posted by CJ View Post
    Would U be happy to point out to me posts where the rules were broken within that thread?
    No, because
    - I have a life
    - I don't like your use of "U"

    More seriously, please keep this at a "general" level, rather than discussing specific threads, OK?

    Quote Originally Posted by CJ View Post
    Friendly and welcoming atmosphere?? Do we start vetting who joins, too??
    Don't understand - what's the joining criteria got to do with anything?

  17. #37
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    Re: The new super button for moderators.

    Quote Originally Posted by philsmove View Post
    lets face it, the thread was getting a tiny weeny bit Boring


    slight understatement.

  18. #38
    Formerly known as DavidJames David Bailey's Avatar
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    Re: The Nanny State Gone Too far??

    Quote Originally Posted by David Franklin View Post
    Not that I have experience of your side of the fence, but if 95% of what you do is censorship, I suggest you're doing it wrong. (Active spam deletion potentially excepted, if a lot more of that happens than I'm aware of).
    I'm including things like thread splitting, thread merging, and general "tidying up" activities as "censorship" - in a sense, they are, in that they affect the course of free speech.

    Hopefully they affect it beneficially, but it's still "censorship". Or, moderation, depending on your point of view.

    Quote Originally Posted by David Franklin View Post
    In the thread under discussion, I would have preferred a "Cool it guys, or we'll have to close the thread" warning before it was closed (although I was personally pretty much done with it anyhow)
    Good suggestion - sounds like a good idea; if we repeat this exercise, we should probably follow such a process.

  19. #39
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    Re: The new super button for moderators.

    Quote Originally Posted by philsmove View Post
    lets face it, the thread was getting a tiny weeny bit Boring
    I can't argue with your observation. Well, maybe the tiny weeny bit... However, are we going to close all threads that are going nowhere or have become boring?!?

    Quote Originally Posted by David Bailey View Post
    No, because
    - I have a life
    - I don't like you're use of "U"

    More seriously, please keep this at a "general" level, rather than discussing specific threads, OK?


    Don't understand - what's the joining criteria got to do with anything?

    Well, if U hadn't closed a specific thread we wouldn't have had a specific thread to dscuss, now, would we? However, U did close a specific thread for specific reasons: I am asking U for examples of those reasons because I, possibly singularly, fail to see where those reasons existed.

    Why should "I" have special treatment? Why must it be "I" and not "Eye" yet it is "you" we use and not "U"? Surely, "U" and "I" are equals??

    David, U know very well that not everyone on this forum is "nice, fluffy, warm or welcoming". If someone isn't sticking to the rules by being so, we (U) infract, etc... In order to protect our fluffiness, are we to vet incomers and noobs?

  20. #40
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    Re: The new super button for moderators.

    Quote Originally Posted by ducasi View Post
    I was going to suggest it, just haven't had the time this morning. It was the right thing to do. The thread was going no-where but down...
    I agree action was needed - I was feeling for poor ant as he continued digging himself deeper and deeper down that hole, but why close it instead of sticking it "outside"?

    Why use such a blunt tool when you've got a far better way?

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