Page 1 of 10 12345 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 182

Thread: Bridging the gap from Beginner to Intermediate.

  1. #1
    Registered User Phil_dB's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Posts
    535
    Rep Power
    8

    Bridging the gap from Beginner to Intermediate.



    I’ve found everyone so knowledgable and helpful on these forums, I thought I would push my luck again by asking for yet more advice.

    To start off by telling you where I am; i’ve done 9 beginner lessons, 1 workshop, i’ve been told I have a smooth lead, I don’t bounce, I have good rhythm and the potential to be a good lead. I’ve covered the core 19 beginners moves, but to be honest I am bored of repeating those same old moves during freestyle.

    I don’t feel confident enough at the moment to mix in with an intermediate class. (I speak to girls who have done 1 – 2 beginner lessons who happily join in the intermediates, - they tell me – “oh it’s fine, I just follow the man’s lead.” !).

    I have attended 2 intermediate classes, the first one was a bad experience (due to some rude woman), and the second I stayed fixed with another beginner at the back of the class.

    What struck me was how fast the instructor goes through the intermediate moves in comparison the the beginners: We took 45 minutes going through 3 relatively simple moves during the beginners class (plus you get the chance to learn them a second time during the second beginners lesson), but the more complicated (for me) intermediate moves were done and dusted in around 20 minutes. Is this always the case?

    Standing at the back of the hall with not much room to dance, I just about “got” the moves, - but I wouldnt be able to dance or freestyle them. Nor did my fixed partner and I feel we could really practice the moves we’d learnt thereafter as there were certain things which weren’t flowing, - i’m sure 5 minutes from an instructor nearby would have ironed these little problems out, but all the instructors/taxis were busy elsewhere.

    I have another workshop this weekend booked which is supposed to go some way in bridging the Beginner -> Intermediate gap... – but I was wondering if you might offer any other advice for someone in my position looking to learn, progress and become comfortable in the intermediate class. Seems like a bit of a jump?? I will probably buy both the intermediate DVDs which I think may be beneficial in 2 ways, - #1 – giving me a sneak preview of the moves covered in the lesson, so at least when I get taught them for the first time they won’t be completely alien, - and #2, after i’ve learnt them, i’ll have a good reference point to ‘perfect’ the move thereafter.

    If you’ve got this far, thanks for reading!!

  2. #2
    Registered User Lynn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    Belfast
    Posts
    8,925
    Rep Power
    15

    Re: Bridging the gap from Beginner to Intermediate.

    Yep, its a bit of jump from beginner to intermediate.

    Basic tips would be to only try to remember and freestyle one move from the intermediate class - not all of them (just pick the one you like best), if stuck, ask someone to go over it with you and don't worry if in the first few weeks you are doing intermediate classes you are still freestyling with beginner moves. Often its easiest to start with freestyling intermediate moves that are beginner move variations - there should be one of those most weeks.

  3. #3
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    waltham abbey
    Posts
    556
    Rep Power
    8

    Re: Bridging the gap from Beginner to Intermediate.

    I know how you feel mate,i,ve only had about 10 lesson myself and it does seem a big jump to go to intermediateIt does help to go on freestyle events and dance with as many people as possible. I was fed up with saying iam new at this blah blah blah. just perfect four or five moves,smile, eye contact,it will take time like it is with me but we will get there in the end.
    Workshops are the best way forward and it does help if you have a experienced partner like i have who has the patiences of a saint

    A good cd which i found was a great help was Ceroc in your living room (i think its called that).

    Anyway good luck mate

    Scarface out

  4. #4
    Commercial Operator
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Sussex by the Sea
    Posts
    9,276
    Rep Power
    15

    Re: Bridging the gap from Beginner to Intermediate.

    My advice is to take it slowly. Enjoy the journey. Don't be in a hurry to reach the Nirvana of intermediate lessons. And don't stick with other beginners in the intermediate lesson - if they aren't experienced follows how will you know if you're leading properly?

    Don't expect to get all of the moves in the intermediate lesson. Make it your objective to add one of those moves into your repertoire for freestyle. Then you only have one move to practice that week - after a year you'll have 52 intermediate moves, which is 48.75 more than David Bailey

    Oh, and if you're at a class where they rush through the intermediate lesson in 20 minutes you're at a class that values freestyle more than lessons - while you want to learn you're better off doing it somewhere else.

  5. #5
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    South
    Posts
    5,424
    Blog Entries
    22
    Rep Power
    11

    Re: Bridging the gap from Beginner to Intermediate.

    Quote Originally Posted by Phil_dB View Post
    I don’t feel confident enough at the moment to mix in with an intermediate class.

    I have attended 2 intermediate classes, the first one was a bad experience (due to some rude woman), and the second I stayed fixed with another beginner at the back of the class.
    I know it's daunting Phil, but you really must dive headfirst into the rotation. Quite often, if you're struggling with a move, you may find ladies that can tell you what is wrong or you might just work it out yourself by doing it with many partners as they go around.
    Generally, most people in lessons understand that there will be new intermediates in the class, and those that don't aren't worth worrying about.
    Sticking with the same partner during the lesson means that any mistakes will just be repeated and make it harder for you when you do dance with other people.

    Quote Originally Posted by Phil_dB View Post
    What struck me was how fast the instructor goes through the intermediate moves in comparison the the beginners: We took 45 minutes going through 3 relatively simple moves during the beginners class (plus you get the chance to learn them a second time during the second beginners lesson), but the more complicated (for me) intermediate moves were done and dusted in around 20 minutes. Is this always the case?


    No it's not. You may have just been unlucky that night with a teacher running late, or it may not be the best class for you. It could even just be that the teacher didn't see any new intermediates in the line-up, so they went faster?

  6. #6
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Northampton
    Posts
    68
    Rep Power
    8

    Re: Bridging the gap from Beginner to Intermediate.

    What i found out on my jorney. Work on dancing well. Keep doing the beginners lession and start the inters. It's a very big gap, so if you really struggling then maybe stop and try again next week. Bit by bit you will get there. Some of the ladies will be able to help you out too with arms etc in the right place, so don't join in with other begins as a fixed couple

    Things to note.
    - The more moves you know does NOT make you a betta dancer
    - Ceroc inter's is like relearn all over again.
    - Get the basic foot work right and it so much easier
    - Small steps.
    - Learn about tension.
    - Smile and enjoy

    Best of luck

  7. #7
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Gold Coast, Austra
    Posts
    2,345
    Rep Power
    11

    Re: Bridging the gap from Beginner to Intermediate.

    To all the above.

    Doing the workshops is good.

    Intermediate is often taught faster, but 20 mins seems short, so if this is always the case at your local venue, you might want to, as suggested, look for another class which has a longer intermediate class and slower teaching.
    Getting just one move from an intermediate class and adding it to your dance is a good result.

    Join the rotation, because it helps when dancing with the more experienced follows.
    After the intermediate class, you might like to ask one of the "friendly" follows if you could go through one of the moves you liked in the intermediate class, you could also ask up front if the "friendly" follow could offer you feedback. For this I would suggest asking an experienced "friendly" follow, one who seemed to have no problems with the moves.

    Keep positive, being able to do 19 moves in freestyle is great.

    Good luck with the next hurdle.

  8. #8
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Crewe, Cheshire
    Posts
    1,681
    Rep Power
    9

    Re: Bridging the gap from Beginner to Intermediate.

    Learn the classic moves first. As they form the basics to a lot of variations.

    If only I could remember what they all were...

  9. #9
    Registered User Phil_dB's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Posts
    535
    Rep Power
    8

    Re: Bridging the gap from Beginner to Intermediate.

    It's good to hear i'm not alone Scarface

    Andy Gav, Fixing at the back with another beginner was a suggestion from the instructors display partner after a conversation when I told him of what some silly women had said to me during my first crack at an intermediate class. I hear what you're saying, makes sense.

    I've been going to this same venue every week (it's the first venue I attended, which i've been told will always feel like 'home', - and it does in a way). I have tried out a couple of others on the odd occasion, but I think i'm going to abandon this regular venue (for a little while), - that silly women's always there and makes me feel a little uncomfortable for starters.

    I'm not going to do any more lessons until the workshop at the weekend, as, as I say, repeating the same moves during freestyle 'did my head in' last night.

    Okay - so I'll have to dive into a rotated intermediates class, and will simply have to be a bit of burdon on people until things start to click again.

    Quote Originally Posted by ashenfie View Post
    #1 Ceroc inter's is like relearn all over again.
    #2 Get the basic foot work right and it so much easier
    #3 Small steps.
    #4 Smile and enjoy
    Best of luck
    Thanks

    #1 - Hmmmm, - seems very true!

    #2 - I need to watch the demonstration at the front of the class a good few times to take it all in, - quite often I need to watch the instructors perform the move before I move, - a lot of follows I dance with in the practice will go to the move at the same time as the instructors -- I wait for a second so I can watch what they've done, and then move!

    #3 - noted - i've read this before, - and have to keep reminding myself....

    #4 - I was smiling and enjoying the beginner lessons, - during the intermediate I was either laughing or crying



    Taking one intermediate move and practicing it with a friendly follow is almost common sense, and I have been able to do that in the past (with beginners moves), - I think last night was a bit of a "funny" night, - the floor seemed too packed, yet there wasn't any of my usual friendly followers or taxis in sight to collar! I spent too much time messing around trying to get to workout the intermediate moves with my beginner partner (blind leading the blind), so by the end of the night, I didnt have many good dances, I left feeling a bit fed up (get out the violins )

  10. #10
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    bedford
    Posts
    4,899
    Rep Power
    13

    Re: Bridging the gap from Beginner to Intermediate.

    Quote Originally Posted by Phil_dB View Post
    ... What struck me was how fast the instructor goes through the intermediate moves in comparison the the beginners: We took 45 minutes going through 3 relatively simple moves during the beginners class (plus you get the chance to learn them a second time during the second beginners lesson), but the more complicated (for me) intermediate moves were done and dusted in around 20 minutes. Is this always the case?...
    Ceroc intermediate classes generally last 30 minutes.

    This is not the way to teach moves or dancing. Endure, you will conquer.

  11. #11
    Registered User emmylou25's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Banbury
    Posts
    554
    Rep Power
    8

    Re: Bridging the gap from Beginner to Intermediate.

    Lots of good advice already suggested, so just keep at it and don't panic about feeling like other people progressing faster (they're probably rushing things and maybe not working on all the small things like tension etc which makes you a better dancer in the long term).

    It is a big step up and the thing about intermediates is that the moves are taught faster. If you're looking at other venues for standard classes while you're learning and getting to grips with intermediates, watch out for some alternative bridging methods that are offered in some venues.

    e.g in some of the cerocOxford venues they're trialling a short 2 move improvers class after beginners and before intermediates in place of the short freestyle bit, to enable people to move up gradually. All the moves are builds on the beginners ones from that evening.

    Also in intermediates I was under the impression that most routines taught comprise a variation on a beginners move, a classic move and then 1/2 other moves. In a couple of our venues to help people struggling a bit more with remembering their moves, they're reteaching one move the following week.

    As long as you keep enjoying it, and concentrate on just adding one of the moves from each week to your repertoire you'll be fine.

  12. #12
    Papa Smurf
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Planet Scathe
    Posts
    12,528
    Blog Entries
    6
    Rep Power
    18

    Re: Bridging the gap from Beginner to Intermediate.

    Quote Originally Posted by Phil_dB View Post
    i’ve been told I have a smooth lead, I don’t bounce, I have good rhythm and the potential to be a good lead. I’ve covered the core 19 beginners moves, but to be honest I am bored of repeating those same old moves during freestyle.
    Ah yes, I remember when more moves seemed important - they're not though . To demonstrate what i mean - if you get hold of a competition dvd, any comp that has a "back to basix" or "beginners moves only" category and watch that - no one actually looks like a beginner, despite the moves they are doing

    Quote Originally Posted by Phil_dB View Post
    I have attended 2 intermediate classes, the first one was a bad experience (due to some rude woman), and the second I stayed fixed with another beginner at the back of the class.
    I would stop that right now if i were you. Your dancing will suffer as a beginner if you try and stay with a fixed partner.

  13. #13
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Gold Coast, Austra
    Posts
    2,345
    Rep Power
    11

    Re: Bridging the gap from Beginner to Intermediate.

    Quote Originally Posted by Phil_dB View Post
    It's good to hear i'm not alone Scarface
    You are certainly not alone, and neither is Scarface, we have ALL been there before.

    Quote Originally Posted by Phil_dB View Post
    Taking one intermediate move and practicing it with a friendly follow is almost common sense, and I have been able to do that in the past (with beginners moves), - I think last night was a bit of a "funny" night, - the floor seemed too packed, yet there wasn't any of my usual friendly followers or taxis in sight to collar! I spent too much time messing around trying to get to workout the intermediate moves with my beginner partner (blind leading the blind), so by the end of the night, I didnt have many good dances, I left feeling a bit fed up (get out the violins )
    Sometimes Sense is not that common

    Yup, blind leading the blind does not work well.

    If the Witch of the West is bugging you that much, then as you have said, go and do some lessons elsewhere so you can feel comfortable.

    No solo violins, time to go for it and Orchestrate your dance future.

  14. #14
    Registered User Beowulf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    The Beoverse
    Posts
    7,985
    Rep Power
    13

    Re: Bridging the gap from Beginner to Intermediate.

    Phil.. I know how you feel. I have never successfully made the leap from beginner to intermediate .. despite starting dancing in 2003.

    Some great advice above. Just try to remember one move.. or even one part of a move each week. Workshops that intensively drill you in a small number of adaptable intermediate moves are good too. This is advice I SHOULD have followed many years ago. My main piece of advice don't do what I did. .. I got fed up struggling with the intermediate lessons so stopped attending. This is more a reflection on me than the teachers.. it's easy to convince yourself that "Actually I don't like this dancing lark and I'm not that good anyway " than it is to actually strive to better yourself.

    Dancing comes naturally to precious few people. And apart from those naturally gifted sorts the rest of us have to practice and work at it. I'm naturally gifted in mathematics and assorted geekery and I also have a desire to be the best at what ever I do. erm.. this is a destructive mind set to be in. So taking my own example as WHAT NOT to do, here are my own personal points (that i really should follow myself)

    1. Keep Dancing. There'll be good times and bad times, but take the rough with the smooth.
    2. Practice. Linked to above but can be done in any free moment you have.. waiting for the bus, waiting for the lift in the office just running over in your head some of the moves etc, trying them out when you have or haven't got a partner etc.
    3. Relax. So you don't know how that quadruple pretzel backflip arial hand jive drop works.. You're probably not the only one. concentrate on what you can do and not what you can't do. take bits out of things you can use again.
    4. Be happy with less. You don't need to learn 1337 moves.. and you certainly don't need to do them all in every dance ! I've been told on numerous occasions that I have a gentle smooth lead. not everyone wants flamboyant complicated dance moves, As long as you know enough for yourself so you don't get bored and can mix and match for variation then you'll do fine. Remember you're only dancing with each partner for the duration of one or two tracks. They won't care if you only know a handful of moves. As long as you are not getting bored.. sometimes less is more.
    5. Don't compare yourself to others You're probably not going to be as good as the championship winning couple who've been dancing together for 15 years.. You MIGHT be.. but probably not. If you continually fail to meet your impossible expectations.. you'll do as I did.. and have extended periods of no dancing or quit altogether.
    6. Have fun self explanatory really. if you have fun with your dancing, play with it a little you'll get more out of it.

    Now if I could only just follow my own advice
    Last edited by Beowulf; 19th-November-2008 at 02:47 PM.

  15. #15
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    Cruden Bay (Aberde
    Posts
    7,053
    Rep Power
    13

    Re: Bridging the gap from Beginner to Intermediate.

    The best way to improve your dancing is to dance.

    The secret to dancing well is bluffing it: The more experienced a dancer, the more mistakes they will have made and the more they feel comfortable with stuff going "wrong".

    If you can laugh, have fun and "muck about" when dancing, then there is a very good chance that you will become a good dancer {just try not to do it during lessons }


    [edit] by "it" I mean mucking about [/edit]
    Last edited by Gadget; 19th-November-2008 at 02:53 PM.

  16. #16
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Nottingham
    Posts
    107
    Rep Power
    8

    Re: Bridging the gap from Beginner to Intermediate.

    Hi Phil, try to get towards the front of the rows at the beginning of the class but avoid row 1 - if the ladies have had to miss the last move there can be even more confusion when they come back on (I know the lead is supposed to lead the move but it is even harder if the follow has been standing out for a few minutes). Any follow worth her salt should be happy to practice a few of the class moves with you. I would also echo what everyone else has said about sticking in the rotation, otherwise you might get the routine every time because your partner gets it rather than because you are leading it well.

    I think it is great when a lead incorporates one or two of the intermediate moves into their freestyle dancing as it feels like they are challenging themselves.

    Good Luck in the intermediates.

  17. #17
    Registered User ant's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Borehamwood, Herts
    Posts
    632
    Rep Power
    9

    Re: Bridging the gap from Beginner to Intermediate.

    Quote Originally Posted by Phil_dB View Post
    What struck me was how fast the instructor goes through the intermediate moves in comparison the the beginners: We took 45 minutes going through 3 relatively simple moves during the beginners class (plus you get the chance to learn them a second time during the second beginners lesson), but the more complicated (for me) intermediate moves were done and dusted in around 20 minutes. Is this always the case?
    The best advise I can give is to stay in the beginners review class until they throw you out.

    Then don't worry if you freak out in the intermediate class, unless your very lucky and gifted we all do.

    In the meantime find as many workshops as possible that do classic intermediate moves and do as many of them as you can.

    I don't know where you live but my local venue Finchley periodically do a third class on their Tuesday nights when they go over 2 classic intermediate moves at a time, after the intermediate lesson specifically to help people over this difficult time. If you live near there I will ask them when they plan to do this again.

  18. #18
    Registered User
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Bedfordshire
    Posts
    352
    Rep Power
    8

    Re: Bridging the gap from Beginner to Intermediate.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lynn View Post
    Yep, its a bit of jump from beginner to intermediate.

    Basic tips would be to only try to remember and freestyle one move from the intermediate class - not all of them (just pick the one you like best), if stuck, ask someone to go over it with you and don't worry if in the first few weeks you are doing intermediate classes you are still freestyling with beginner moves. Often its easiest to start with freestyling intermediate moves that are beginner move variations - there should be one of those most weeks.


    This certainly took the stress out of it for me, trying to nail all 4 seemed like an impossible task that left me angry and frustrated, focusing on getting just one was a relaxed affair. A little secret that might also take the stress out of it - loads of guys struggle in the Intermediate class with women commenting that they've done the class 25 different ways on the way round the rotation, if you're not getting it, i promise you you are not the only one !

    Another thing that helped me when I first started intermediate lessons was once I had collected a few of 'one move from each lesson' I choreographed a little routine that mixed them up with beginner moves, which helped to reduce the stress of thinking in freestyle. Over time you can start to wing it with your 'routine' as a fallback position should your mind go blank.

  19. #19
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Gold Coast, Austra
    Posts
    2,345
    Rep Power
    11

    Re: Bridging the gap from Beginner to Intermediate.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jan in Notts View Post
    Any follow worth her salt should be happy to practice a few of the class moves with you.
    A well seasoned dancer should be a good salt, peppered with experience and ready to cook up some moves.

  20. #20
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    bedford
    Posts
    4,899
    Rep Power
    13

    Re: Bridging the gap from Beginner to Intermediate.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gadget View Post
    The best way to improve your dancing is to dance...
    & watchthe good dancers.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. WCS in Surrey - can you recommend a good beginner class?
    By Phil_dB in forum The Land of a 1000 dances
    Replies: 22
    Last Post: 19th-November-2008, 02:11 PM
  2. Beginner class or intermediate class?
    By LuLu Baby in forum Beginners corner
    Replies: 28
    Last Post: 13th-July-2007, 11:33 AM
  3. When is a beginner not a beginner?
    By StokeBloke in forum Beginners corner
    Replies: 33
    Last Post: 12th-May-2007, 11:54 AM
  4. Crossing the Beginner to Intermediate divide
    By TurboTomato in forum Beginners corner
    Replies: 125
    Last Post: 21st-December-2006, 02:48 AM
  5. Forum Frequently Asked Questions
    By Gadget in forum Forum technical problems / Questions / Suggestions..
    Replies: 54
    Last Post: 28th-November-2006, 10:56 AM

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •