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Thread: What is happening to social services?

  1. #101
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    Re: What is happening to social services?

    Quote Originally Posted by philsmove View Post
    I have found no mention of severance pay. But Haringey Social Services will have to follow our draconian employment law, which very much on the side of the employee
    Going off-topic: after recent experience, I can assure you that in certain areas UK employment law needs to be a hell of a lot MORE "draconian".

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    Re: What is happening to social services?

    Quote Originally Posted by David Bailey View Post
    Well to be honest, I don't give a monkey's about that, the more important point is how to fix things at the organisational level.
    They could do what they do with failing schools.

    Head hunt a head of children's services with a proven record.

    Leaderships does set the tone in any organisation.

    This 'super head', using the school anology, can tthen implement the most effective training.

    Also, let the government turn recomendations into law.

    After the Brixton riots, in 1979, Lord Scarman's recomendations were ignored, more riots followed.

    What is the point of having these special enquiries if nothing changes?

  3. #103
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    Re: What is happening to social services?

    Quote Originally Posted by Astro View Post
    They could do what they do with failing schools.

    Head hunt a head of children's services with a proven record.

    Leaderships does set the tone in any organisation.
    Yes - actually, that sounds pretty much like what they're doing now.

  4. #104
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    Re: What is happening to social services?

    Quote Originally Posted by philsmove View Post

    I have found no mention of severance pay. But Haringey Social Services will have to follow our draconian employment law, which very much on the side of the employee
    With all due respect - get a grip of yourself ! Employees need protection from companies - the corporate bottom line is far less important than the individual members of our society thankyou very much

    This is entirely separate from issues of training, learning lessons from mistakes or this specific employment case.

  5. #105
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    Re: What is happening to social services?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadful Scathe View Post
    With all due respect - get a grip of yourself ! Employees need protection from companies - the corporate bottom line is far less important than the individual members of our society thank you very much

    This is entirely separate from issues of training, learning lessons from mistakes or this specific employment case.
    may be we need a separate thread
    I speak from the experience running a very small business

  6. #106
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    Re: What is happening to social services?

    Quote Originally Posted by philsmove View Post
    may be we need a separate thread
    I speak from the experience running a very small business
    thats as maybe, but i'm not sure you understand the word "draconian"

  7. #107
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    Re: What is happening to social services?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadful Scathe View Post
    thats as maybe, but i'm not sure you understand the word "draconian"
    Doctor Who villains, weren't they?

    They had an empire, I remember that - and people with empires are usually villains. That's the rule.

  8. #108
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    Re: What is happening to social services?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadful Scathe View Post
    that's as maybe, but i'm not sure you understand the word "draconian"
    draconian

    I have now thankfully retired , but when I run a small company, one small slip on employment legislation, could mean the collapse of the entire business.

  9. #109
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    Re: What is happening to social services?

    Quote Originally Posted by Trouble View Post
    So, suspensions given out and investigations have proceeded about little baby P.

    ALL ON FULL PAY

    I really can not fathom what this world is coming too. That woman who was in charge is likely to walk away with a six figure severence pay.

    Of course they are suspended on full pay; this is because until the disciplinary process is completed the employee is not yet 'found guilty'. It protects poorly paid people in crappy jobs, it's not fair that people in well paid jobs get treated as if they are guilty until proven innocent.

    If Shoemaker is dismissed she won't get any severance. If she threatens an unfair dismissal claim it may be that a settlement will be cheaper than defending the proceedings.

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    Re: What is happening to social services?

    Quote Originally Posted by philsmove View Post
    draconian

    I have now thankfully retired , but when I run a small company, one small slip on employment legislation, could mean the collapse of the entire business.
    So could a small slip on a contract.

  11. #111
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    Re: What is happening to social services?

    I've always wondered why Ofsted inspections of schools are notified to the school in advance. I mean - what is the point? You turn up at the headmaster's office at 8am and say - Hey, dude. The inspection's today! -

    I can't see why Ofsted is charged with inspecting social services departments - it's made a p***-poor job of inspecting schools.

    But the knowledge that Ofsted might conduct a blitz appel at any time should go at least some way to sorting out the current problems in both schools and social service department.

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    Re: What is happening to social services?

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry Shnikov View Post
    If Shoemaker is dismissed she won't get any severance. If she threatens an unfair dismissal claim it may be that a settlement will be cheaper than defending the proceedings.
    Sharon Shoemaker has had the police round...to upgrade security on her home. Reinforced windows and suchlike.

    She has had a lot of threats from the general public, one threatened to kill her daughter. I don't agree with the personal attacks. It's wrong.

    However, I do feel that she should resign - just slink away in shame.

    Two others under investigation have resigned, but about 5 of them haven't.

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    Re: What is happening to social services?

    Quote Originally Posted by Astro View Post
    Two others under investigation have resigned, but about 5 of them haven't.
    If making mistakes in your job automatically forced you to resign - 90% of us would be unemployed

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    Re: What is happening to social services?

    Quote Originally Posted by Astro View Post
    Sharon Shoemaker
    Astro, do you have something against getting people's names right? First it was Barack Osama, now this - is no-one safe?

  15. #115
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    Re: What is happening to social services?

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry Shnikov View Post
    Wow. That's 153½ different spellings of paedophile in one post. It's a Guinness World Record!!

    They don't deserve to have their name spelt right.
    Quote Originally Posted by Barry Shnikov View Post
    If Shoemaker is dismissed she won't get any severance. If she threatens an unfair dismissal claim it may be that a settlement will be cheaper than defending the proceedings.
    Oops Barry!
    Quote Originally Posted by Tessalicious View Post
    Astro, do you have something against getting people's names right? First it was Barack Osama, now this - is no-one safe?
    Shoemaker, Shoesmith, load of old cobblers.

    Mind you, I am still trying to shake off the FBI.

  16. #116
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    Re: What is happening to social services?

    Well it looks like social services are also going to be blamed for the kidnap of Shannon Matthews'

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/w...re/7766551.stm

    I really feel sorry for the ordinary guys working for social services. They have to deal with people, described by Det Supt Andy Brennan as "pure evil" yet if they get taken in by her lies , as were most of us were ,they get blamed for not doing their job

  17. #117
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    Re: What is happening to social services?

    Quote Originally Posted by philsmove View Post
    Well it looks like social services are also going to be blamed for the kidnap of Shannon Matthews'

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/w...re/7766551.stm

    I really feel sorry for the ordinary guys working for social services. They have to deal with people, described by Det Supt Andy Brennan as "pure evil" yet if they get taken in by her lies , as were most of us were ,they get blamed for not doing their job
    A very fair point. It is right to hold Social Services accountable for their actions (i.e. failing to prevent an offence, NOT committing the offence) and see how things can be improved for the future. It is right that, if the evidence compels it, that there are resignations or dismissals. But ...

    How many journalists/reporters were taken in by the lies in the Matthews case? Would any journalist even contemplate resigning after their lapse of judgement? Actually I wouldn't want that. If the journalists who were taken in would write a "mea culpa" report and show sympathy for the difficult job Social Services has to do that would be a small step towards improving the world.

    I'm not holding my breath.

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    Re: What is happening to social services?

    Quote Originally Posted by MarkW View Post
    How many journalists/reporters were taken in by the lies in the Matthews case?
    Oh my God, how naive are you? They knew all along, or at least had a better idea than the rest of us.

    It's no secret that journalists and reporters stick torches up the arses of anyone like Matthews the minute a story breaks. They would have known straight away that Shannon was on Social Services "at risk" list earlier in her life, to name but a few facts that would throw question marks all over the Shannon Matthews case.

    Of course, they can only report what they see, regardless of what they know, so must have been rubbing their hands will glee at the prospect of what they must have suspected all along - that Matthews was behind the kidnapping from the start.

    In short, the press would have gone all out to make her look innocent, so it's all the more sensational when she turns out not to be...they love it.

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    Re: What is happening to social services?

    Quote Originally Posted by Double Trouble View Post
    Oh my God, how naive are you? They knew all along, or at least had a better idea than the rest of us.

    It's no secret that journalists and reporters stick torches up the arses of anyone like Matthews the minute a story breaks. They would have known straight away that Shannon was on Social Services "at risk" list earlier in her life, to name but a few facts that would throw question marks all over the Shannon Matthews case.

    Of course, they can only report what they see, regardless of what they know, so must have been rubbing their hands will glee at the prospect of what they must have suspected all along - that Matthews was behind the kidnapping from the start.

    In short, the press would have gone all out to make her look innocent, so it's all the more sensational when she turns out not to be...they love it.
    How embarrassing for me. You have just made a similar point to the one I was trying to make but have done so far more effectively.

    If you are right then the press has even more to apologise for than I thought and certainly looks like the lesser institution in comparison to Social Services.

    Naively yours,
    xx

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