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Thread: What is happening to social services?

  1. #61
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    Re: What is happening to social services?

    Quote Originally Posted by David Bailey View Post
    I can't help wondering whether the fact that Baby P was white, blond, and in London, whereas those two babies were black and in Manchester, is significant.
    I think the cases are very different and that is probably why they got different media coverage. If I am thinking of the right case the woman in Manchester was sectioned under the Mental Health Act, which probably meant that she was suffering from a psychotic episode at the time. I am not sure if her children were on the child protection register. The case of Baby P the child was on the child protection register and had numerous visits from Social Services and other professionals and I think that is why there is so much media attention and not because he/she is white

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    Re: What is happening to social services?

    Quote Originally Posted by Double Trouble View Post
    That's not the point Barry.
    Well, with respect, it is the point I wanted to make. This world keeps turning and misery upon misery is experienced by an enormously and horribly large percentage of the planet. Most people get by on the basis that we ignore almost all of it. It seems to me - aside from the fact that it is a tragic matter we are considering - almost comical the way something like this can produce such hysteria.

    Maybe it's most people's way of compensating.

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    Re: What is happening to social services?

    It's comments like this...

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry Shnikov View Post
    Personally I've got all the drama I can handle right now so I'm very ho-hum about the death of one toddler in Haringey.
    and this...

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry Shnikov View Post
    almost comical the way something like this can produce such hysteria.
    ...that depress me. Call me a weirdo, over reacting mother with over active emotions, but I think it's a good thing that we don't all share your apathetic views Barry.

    We've all got our own drama's in life Barry, but when someone I know is down or, I dunno...in hospital or something, I'd still make the effort to at least text a good will message to cheer them up, no matter what drama's were going on in my own life

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    Re: What is happening to social services?

    Quote Originally Posted by Double Trouble View Post
    Call me a weirdo, over reacting mother with over active emotions, but I think it's a good thing that we don't all share your apathetic views Barry.
    But we do - or we would be discussing the worlds suffering every single day. Theres enough of it reported after all. Its only when newspapers jump on the story of the week we get manipulated into feeling close to a story we really know nothing about. So much so that people are outraged against whoever the newspapers suggest we should be outraged about. Sheesh, if we weren't apathetic about the vast majority of the worlds suffering, we'd go mental

    We've all got our own drama's in life Barry, but when someone I know is down or, I dunno...in hospital or something, I'd still make the effort to at least text a good will message to cheer them up, no matter what drama's were going on in my own life
    I'm sure Barry does too - but thats very different from this situation of a child that we don't even know the name of, whose vague story we only know about from the media spin on it. And that story is not even consistent across more than one newspaper. Who have you been texting the goodwill message to in the case of Baby P ?

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    Re: What is happening to social services?

    Quote Originally Posted by Double Trouble View Post
    We've all got our own drama's in life Barry, but when someone I know is down or, I dunno...in hospital or something, I'd still make the effort to at least text a good will message to cheer them up, no matter what drama's were going on in my own life
    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadful Scathe View Post
    thats very different from this situation of a child that we don't even know the name of, whose vague story we only know about from the media spin on it. And that story is not even consistent across more than one newspaper. Who have you been texting the goodwill message to in the case of Baby P ?
    Yes you're right...my point was irrelevant to this discussion...it was more a personal comment to BS about apathy/personal dramas, etc.

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    Re: What is happening to social services?

    Quote Originally Posted by Double Trouble View Post
    Yes you're right...my point was irrelevant to this discussion...it was more a personal comment to BS about apathy/personal dramas, etc.
    what - arent you going to argue a bit i was, like, really sarcy

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    Re: What is happening to social services?

    Quote Originally Posted by Double Trouble View Post
    Yes you're right...my point was irrelevant to this discussion...it was more a personal comment to BS about apathy/personal dramas, etc.
    There is more than 'apathy' as an alternative response to the Haringey hysteria, DT.

    I posted about drama because I'm seeking to make some sort of sense of this prevalent attitude these days of all piling in and shrieking with outrage about something that the newspapers and media outlets whip up into a hurricane.

    Maddy thingy last year: one of the results of that, perversely, was the outrage perpetrated on little Shannon Matthews. Her mother looked at the - I'm sorry, I can't find a synonym - hysteria over the Portuguese kidnap and saw the newspapers offering £10,000s rewards, and thought - "hmm. How can I get my hands on some of that money?" My firm opinion is that if Maddy hadn't disappeared, or if the newspapers hadn't turned it into World War 3, Shannon Matthews would still be sleeping in her house with her mum, stepfather and siblings. (I know, it's debatable whether that is a good thing at all, but that's another argument.) Then we have the Ross/Brand thing; now it's Baby P; next month it'll be some new thing that the news media inflates from zero to 70 in 3.5 column inches in order to sell advertising.

    Why is it that people are such sheep, or to put it another way incapable of taking a deep breath and saying 'Well, I wonder what the other side of the story is?

    Is it apathetic not to become emotional about the death of a toddler in Haringey, and if so is it more apathetic than not being equally emotional about the suffering of children branded as witches and killed in Nigeria, or born with AIDS in South Africa, or killed by off-duty policemen in South America, or married to old men in Pakistan and Somalia, or genitally mutilated in sub-saharan African countries?

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    Re: What is happening to social services?

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry Shnikov View Post
    There is more than 'apathy' as an alternative response to the Haringey hysteria, DT.

    I posted about drama because I'm seeking to make some sort of sense of this prevalent attitude these days of all piling in and shrieking with outrage about something that the newspapers and media outlets whip up into a hurricane.

    Maddy thingy last year: one of the results of that, perversely, was the outrage perpetrated on little Shannon Matthews. Her mother looked at the - I'm sorry, I can't find a synonym - hysteria over the Portuguese kidnap and saw the newspapers offering £10,000s rewards, and thought - "hmm. How can I get my hands on some of that money?" My firm opinion is that if Maddy hadn't disappeared, or if the newspapers hadn't turned it into World War 3, Shannon Matthews would still be sleeping in her house with her mum, stepfather and siblings. (I know, it's debatable whether that is a good thing at all, but that's another argument.) Then we have the Ross/Brand thing; now it's Baby P; next month it'll be some new thing that the news media inflates from zero to 70 in 3.5 column inches in order to sell advertising.

    Why is it that people are such sheep, or to put it another way incapable of taking a deep breath and saying 'Well, I wonder what the other side of the story is?

    Is it apathetic not to become emotional about the death of a toddler in Haringey, and if so is it more apathetic than not being equally emotional about the suffering of children branded as witches and killed in Nigeria, or born with AIDS in South Africa, or killed by off-duty policemen in South America, or married to old men in Pakistan and Somalia, or genitally mutilated in sub-saharan African countries?

    It's called 'Moral Panic' (Stanley Cohen)

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    Re: What is happening to social services?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadful Scathe View Post
    i was, like, really sarcy
    As opposed to what, exactly?

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    Re: What is happening to social services?

    Quote Originally Posted by Double Trouble View Post

    What about all the HUNDREDS of children in this country who aren't being killed? You're focussing on the death of one toddler and not thinking about the bigger picture. How many other baby "P's" are there out there that social services are failing?
    I wonder what percentage of tortured children die?
    Did you know that Victoria Climbie lived 2 streets away from Baby "P"? They say lessons were learnt after Victoria died. Hmmm.
    There was an "inquiry" after Victoria Climbie and Haringey was given a clean bill of health.
    But Shoesmith (head of children's services) commissioned it herself and picked who she wanted to "investigate"

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    Re: What is happening to social services?

    Quote Originally Posted by Double Trouble View Post
    As opposed to what, exactly?
    hmm ... good point

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    Re: What is happening to social services?

    Quote Originally Posted by Astro View Post
    There was an "inquiry" after Victoria Climbie and Haringey was given a clean bill of health.
    Not exactly. There was a public enquiry, the most expensive and thorough of its kind in UK history - see here for details:
    http://www.victoria-climbie-inquiry.org.uk/

    The report, far from exonerating Haringey, condemned them. Although, I admit, the senior management at Haringey managed to avoid the sackings they so clearly deserved.

    But as a result of the enquiry, we got:


    So it's not like everyone just shrugged their shoulders or anything.

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    Re: What is happening to social services?

    Quote Originally Posted by David Bailey View Post
    Not exactly. There was a public enquiry, the most expensive and thorough of its kind in UK history - see here for details:
    http://www.victoria-climbie-inquiry.org.uk/

    The report, far from exonerating Haringey, condemned them. Although, I admit, the senior management at Haringey managed to avoid the sackings they so clearly deserved.




    But as a result of the enquiry, we got:
    So it's not like everyone just shrugged their shoulders or anything.
    Mmmm the media must have reported it wrong in the paper I read.

    I also read of a whistleblower who was a social worker for Haringey.

    She was sacked, but appealed to a Tribunal and was given a pay off. The pay off gagged her.
    Also she wrote to 4 MP's informing them of the malpractice inherent in Haringay. The letters were passed on to different departments and nothing was done.

    I remember, when Victoria Climbie died, that a majority of the Social Workers were Seventh Day Adventists - a religion.
    There was a form of religious nepotism going on with recruitment of social workers.
    Social workers who were not Seventh Day Adventists felt excluded, so there were 2 groups not speaking to each other.

    I wonder if the God Botherers still hold sway?

    PS The trouble with these Enquires is that they only make reccomendations, they are not binding.
    Last edited by Astro; 22nd-November-2008 at 03:31 PM.

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    Re: What is happening to social services?

    Quote Originally Posted by Astro View Post
    Mmmm the media must have reported it wrong in the paper I read.
    Well, blow me down!!

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    Re: What is happening to social services?

    Quote Originally Posted by Astro View Post
    I remember, when Victoria Climbie died, that a majority of the Social Workers were Seventh Day Adventists - a religion.
    There was a form of religious nepotism going on with recruitment of social workers.
    Social workers who were not Seventh Day Adventists felt excluded, so there were 2 groups not speaking to each other.
    Do you have a reference for that?

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    Re: What is happening to social services?

    Read this story today - doesn't do much for Social Workers reputations really does it?

    http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-sto...name_page.html

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    Re: What is happening to social services?

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry Shnikov View Post
    Do you have a reference for that?
    Er no Barry, but I live only around 2 miles from Haringey and it was perhaps local news.

    The trouble with these religions is they tend to believe the Old Testament which spouts things like "Spare the rod, spoil the child" - thus condoning violence toward children (to them)
    Quote Originally Posted by Double Trouble View Post
    Read this story today - doesn't do much for Social Workers reputations really does it?

    http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-sto...name_page.html
    Which Council is it though? Have I missed it or is there a cover up?

    Just shows that our discussion re. peodophiles working in Social Services, on the Gary Gltter Thread, is still current.

    There was a peodophile ring in Hackney which used peodophile nepotism to recruit and protect each other.

    It was detected and they were sent to prison, but at least one died of an AIDS related disease before he was locked up - Mark Trotter.
    Last edited by Astro; 23rd-November-2008 at 04:17 PM.

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    Re: What is happening to social services?

    Charlie Brookers screenwipe (watch here before Tuesday) - a most amusing program - has a bit about Media hysteria at the beginning - specifically about Brand and Ross, but it would equally apply to this too.

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    Re: What is happening to social services?

    Quote Originally Posted by Astro View Post
    Er no Barry, but I live only around 2 miles from Haringey and it was perhaps local news.

    The trouble with these religions is they tend to believe the Old Testament which spouts things like "Spare the rod, spoil the child" - thus condoning violence toward children (to them)
    I think it may have been a bit of inaccurate gossip.

    Googling 'haringey climbie adventist' gets a paltry half-dozen hits none of which talk about there being a seventh day coven in social services. Probably something with a grain of truth that got exaggerated in the retelling.

    It's exactly because of the attitudes of such religions which pulled me up short - I would be surprised if such attitudes could survive in a modern social services department...

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    Re: What is happening to social services?

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry Shnikov View Post
    I think it may have been a bit of inaccurate gossip.

    Googling 'haringey climbie adventist' gets a paltry half-dozen hits none of which talk about there being a seventh day coven in social services. Probably something with a grain of truth that got exaggerated in the retelling.

    It's exactly because of the attitudes of such religions which pulled me up short - I would be surprised if such attitudes could survive in a modern social services department...
    I've had a google too. Tried Jehovah Witnesses and religion.

    Nothing there.

    There was definately a large religious group working as social workers.

    The religious ones looked down on the non religious ones as being Heathens and there was a rift.

    Also the religious one were taking children with care orders to the Church and trying to indoctrinate them.

    They hadn't asked their boss for permission to take them. Some parents found out and complained.

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