What is happening to social services?

[Trouble]

I have struggled to read about the poor little mite who was murdered at the hands of his own mother (baby P) but i have. The sickening revulsion i feel at the thought of what this little mite went through actually convinces me that could i get hold of that mother i would actually commit murder. Infact, i would love an hour in a room with her.

Then and this is the discussion point... I would like an hour in the room with the social service staff who did **** all about this

Now i understand that the services are struggling for funds and things are not being done properly but tell me... as a human being, could you have walked away from this situation. It sounds as though these people really did not give a toss.

What is happening out there in SServices world. I truly believe we should be worried about the safety of children out there.

[Gav]

What is happening out there in SServices world.

What is happening? Nothing new at all.
Social services have always been cr4p.
Before I got completely flamed, I understand that there are highly skilled, motivated and blameless social workers out there. My criticism is of the organisation.
They spend far too much time and money persecuting innocent parties with little or no evidence to back it up, then fail to act when they do have concerns and evidence. Usually it's because of poor communication, failure to understand who the responsibility lies with or some other systemic failure.

[Trouble]

Before I got completely flamed, I understand that there are highly skilled, motivated and blameless social workers out there. My criticism is of the organisation.
.

Well just to be clear... i am holding the social services involved with this baby completely to blame. They have blood on their hands.

I am then asking the question... why is this still happening this day and age. What on earth is going on.

[Double Trouble]

I truly believe we should be worried about the safety of children out there.

Like it or not, there are thousands of children just like baby "P" who are still suffering a similar fate. We only got to hear about "P" because he's dead.

It must be difficult for the social workers though, I mean, they have so little time to fit in protecting the abused children during their working week, what with all the "team Building" holidays they have to go on.

[Gav]

Well just to be clear... i am holding the social services involved with this baby completely to blame. They have blood on their hands.

I am then asking the question... why is this still happening this day and age. What on earth is going on.

I'm more concerned that we have to have an organisation to protect children in the first place!

I'm looking forward to the day when they discover the gene that makes you likely to abuse children. Then in my Orwellian world, the carriers would be sterilised or terminated.

[philsmove]

We now live in blame culture

And when something goes wrong someone has to be blamed

As Gav say it’s the System that’s to blame

and like it or not WE are all part of the system

and we are all in some way to blame

[ashenfie]

What is happening? Nothing new at all.
Social services have always been cr4p.

I in anyway involved within Social Services, thu have had dealing with them.

Social services is very underfunded (by US) and totally derided (by US). Image how hard it is therefore find social works, it’s a job taken out of devotion, it’s not giving you Qdos like work for a charity or loads of money like work for a Bank. The ppl on the ground try to save all these children for US without any support from US (the general public). IMHO is one of the worst jobs going, if not the worst.

On top of that they work all hours god sends to cope with the work loads.. In fact it seams to me the only way they can keep on top of workloads is to ignore most of their cases, and only focus on the most at risk children. Social works don’t last long because of all this, and therefore are generally are new to the job (learning on the job). Take a child away and your wrong to do that, leave the child with the parent your wrong to do that! On top of the cases they deal with are totally horrific. There further seams to be no backup or support for the case workers, they look to be totally left to sorting things out on their own.

The ppl that did this are the parents and we should not forget that. It’s wrong to blame social services.. I totally agree they could and should have done more, there always is more that can be done, we all know that from our own experiences.

We are as much to blame for the failing as Social Service as there is more we could and should have done. We should be complaining to our MP’s and spending more money on the Social Services.

I think we grow up and take responsibility our selves .We need to try and understand why the parents failed to look after their child and ensure it had a safe environment. I personally feel sick to the gut about what happened to this child. All I know there are many others at risk and we need to support Social Service, so they can do the best for them.

[ducasi]

Well just to be clear... i am holding the social services involved with this baby completely to blame. They have blood on their hands.

Aren't the mother and the men who actually killed the child to blame at all?

Social workers are criticised when they take action – interfering busy-bodies!

Social workers are criticised when they fail to take action – there's blood on their hands.

Who'd want to do that job? Thank god there's folks who care, and go and try to make the world a better place for everyone.

I'm sure they are trying their best, but they're only human.

[StokeBloke]

Well just to be clear... i am holding the social services involved with this baby completely to blame. They have blood on their hands.

The three people who have been convicted of murder are the ones responsible for the death of this child. As for the problems with the local social services, 20:20 hindsight is a marvelous thing. We can hope that Baby P's case galvanises the authority into action to put better care into place for the future.

Social services walk a very difficult tightrope. Too heavy handed and they are accused of splitting up families needlessly. Not pro-active enough and they are tarred as murderers. The media say that this child had been visited over sixty times. That to me speaks of a social care team who were worried enough to monitor that child's environment very closely. You also have to bear in mind that this was an exceptional case of cruelty and deceit. For example, the mother smeared chocolate spread on some of the baby's bruises to disguise them. This is what these guys are up against.

I am not wishing to make excuses for the failings of the system with regard to Baby P. I would however like to say that people DO NOT enter a career in social care for the cash or adulation. They certainly don't work in social care to allow babies to be beaten, broken and killed.

Spare a thought for the people who work those long hours, witnessing sickening abuse that would make me physically ill. They endure the nitty gritty details that we are thankfully spared. They take that home at night.These people are heros in my eyes. Thank God that they are there to do it, I don't have the stomach for it

[David Bailey]

Aren't the mother and the men who actually killed the child to blame at all?

They are - and there's been an amazing lack of condemnation from the media on these people, it's weird.

These are the people who've tortured and murdered a child, and who've deliberately acted to deceive the authorities who were trying to look out for the child's welfare. And yet they seem to be treated as an afterthought - the media storm is all about Haringey's social services.

The worst - the very worst - you can say about Haringey social services is that they were slow to react, that they were naive, and that they had the wrong priorities. That's it.

Weighing "torturing and murdering a child" against "poor sets of procedures", one can only ask if the media have simply lost all sense of proportion on this.

Blame the mother, the boyfriend and the lodger. These people are scum, absolute scum, they should be locked away forever.

But Haringey social services didn't kill that kid.

I'm sure they are trying their best, but they're only human.

Well, there is a procedural argument, a prioritisation argument, and a resources argument, about Haringey. But now's not the time to make that argument.

Amazingly, I've actually gained some respect for Ed Balls - I think he's doing exactly the right thing in waiting for the report, rather than in feeding the media frenzy.

[David Bailey]

Spare a thought for the people who work those long hours, witnessing sickening abuse that would make me physically ill. They endure the nitty gritty details that we are thankfully spared. They take that home at night.These people are heros in my eyes. Thank God that they are there to do it, I don't have the stomach for it

One scary statistic - 300,000 children in the UK receive some attention from social services. And 30,000 of those are "at risk".

The amazing thing is that so few of these cases occur. But then "29,999 children not killed this year" doesn't really make a news story.

[Double Trouble]

there's been an amazing lack of condemnation from the media on these people, it's weird.

Well, the problem is that you can't stop brainless, evil, sub-human beings having children. The problem with Social Services is that they think they can monitor these situations and "help" the parents to look after the child, but in some cases, specifically baby "P", you're not dealing with ill-prepared, ill-educated people, you're dealing with animals who should never be allowed near children, let alone allowed to breed.

THAT'S why my sister blames Social Services. If you put a baby in a Silverback gorillas cage and the gorilla killed the baby, you'd blame the zoo keeper. Social services are still blindly seeing these parents as "human".

[Baruch]

Well, the problem is that you can't stop brainless, evil, sub-human beings having children. The problem with Social Services is that they think they can monitor these situations and "help" the parents to look after the child, but in some cases, specifically baby "P", you're not dealing with ill-prepared, ill-educated people, you're dealing with animals who should never be allowed near children, let alone allowed to breed.

It's very easy to make judgements on such cases when you're not actually involved with them. We all do it. For those that are actually faced with making those judgements on the ground, however, it's a hell of a lot harder.

The problem social workers have is in knowing which parents are actually "brainless, evil and subhuman". Especially when those parents resort to deception, as in the case of P (smearing chocolate spread over bruises etc). In practical terms, how do you tell them apart from the parents that are just poorly educated, mentally ill or have learning difficulties, when the evidence is concealed and all you can see is a child who is failing to thrive as he or she should?

As someone who has taught many children who have been under observation from Social Services for various reasons, I think I can say from experience that you can't always tell the difference. Is that girl self-harming because of abuse or because she's been mentally under-stimulated? Is that boy covered in bruises because he's been beaten by his dad, or because he got into a fight with another boy after school yesterday? Is that a cigarette burn on that girl's hand, or is there a less sinister explanation? Unless the children themselves tell you (and often they won't, for various reasons) it can be really difficult to make that call. Do those parents just need help, or are they a danger to their children? How do you decide? I'd hate to be a social worker.

[robd]

Christ DT, you (and your sister) really are the Daily Mail's idea of a dream readership. I bet you'd happily stand outside a court for hours just for the chance to bang on a suspected paedophile's prison van.

What exactly do you know of the parents of Baby P beyond what you've read or seen on TV? How do you suppose that you are better informed than the social workers who dealt with them? I don't doubt that with hindsight the Haringey Social Services will see how they could and should have done some things differently but to paint it as black and white as you have done is just wrong.

[Double Trouble]

but to paint it as black and white as you have done is just wrong.

But I said...

in some cases...

Social Services sent the mother on "parenting" classes, while all the time she was covering up for her boyfriend and Social Services knew the baby was being abused. Her ex-husband told social services about the boyfriend yet they didn't follow it up. They just accepted the mothers word that only she and the grandmother looked after "P". Talk about miss the target.

[FunkyAngel]

The media say that this child had been visited over sixty times. That to me speaks of a social care team who were worried enough to monitor that child's environment very closely..

Actually, that also suggests to me they were desperately trying to gather enough evidence to get the child taken into care because they strongly suspected the mother was lying but couldn't prove it.

You tell me how you distinguish a common garden variety bad parent like the other 40 on their case load from the ones that might actually kill their child? Bit like asking the police to arrest all murderers before they commit any crimes...

Spare a thought for the people who work those long hours, witnessing sickening abuse that would make me physically ill. They endure the nitty gritty details that we are thankfully spared. They take that home at night.These people are heros in my eyes. Thank God that they are there to do it, I don't have the stomach for it

I work next to some of them, I overhear the phone calls and the discussions and I know how much sleep they lose worrying over some of the cases. And then of course there's the death threats from the families of the children they do take into care...

I think most of them do a pretty amazing job and to be honest, I'm surprised they don't get it wrong more often...

FunkyAngel

[TheTramp]

TBH, reading condemnation of social services like I've read on this forum makes me sick. And I completely blame the people who write this trash!

Do you really think that social services people want babies and children to be hurt or killed? Do you really think that you could do a better job then they did? And if the answer to that is yes, then why the hell aren't you?

It's easy to stand there, and shout out how bad the social services people must be, and how they're completely to blame for the death. If you're that bloody concerned, why don't you go and do it right, and save some lives.

The social service people are people, just like you and me. They're probably a hell of a lot more upset about what happened as the people who read the papers and watch the news and condemn them. And then we wonder why people don't go into those job areas. For the abuse and condemnation of people who just want to sensationalise it and criticise?

[Double Trouble]

Do you really think that social services people want babies and children to be hurt or killed? Do you really think that you could do a better job then they did? And if the answer to that is yes, then why the hell aren't you?

It's easy to stand there, and shout out how bad the social services people must be, and how they're completely to blame for the death. If you're that bloody concerned, why don't you go and do it right, and save some lives.

Actually, in the case of baby "P", the social worker on the ground who actually saw, first hand, the parents, carers and the child, was pushing for the child to be fostered/taken in to care. It was the social workers boss who put a stop to the recommendations and allowed the child to go back to the mother.

I am actually in defence of the social worker involved, but not Social Services as a whole, who by their own admission have made terrible mistakes....again...!

I think Baruch hit the nail on the head when he said...

The problem social workers have is in knowing which parents are actually "brainless, evil and subhuman". Especially when those parents resort to deception, as in the case of P (smearing chocolate spread over bruises etc). In practical terms, how do you tell them apart from the parents that are just poorly educated, mentally ill or have learning difficulties, when the evidence is concealed and all you can see is a child who is failing to thrive as he or she should?

[Gav]

Putting the mistakes of social services aside for a moment, I know it would never happen (too many bleeding-heart liberals ), but am I the only one that thinks these "parents" be forcibly sterilised?

[Double Trouble]

am I the only one that thinks these "parents" be forcibly sterilised?

Now, now Gav...if you're not careful you'll get accused of being a Daily Mail reader.