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Thread: Advice on leading a Step Accross.

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    Registered User Phil_dB's Avatar
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    Advice on leading a Step Accross.

    *Occassionally*, when I lead a "Step Accross", - the follow will turn the wrong way, - probably thinking that i'm just lifting her hand up in the air to do a standard spin.

    I was taught that after you have swapped sides, the lead should turn and "snap" the Follow round to face by bringing his hand down in a sort of swoop. (It makes the move look nice).

    Now, it's a quick movement, and with my back to the Follow, I can't always see if they've turned the right way, - so if I turn and swoop my hand down to "snap" the Follow around, and they're trying to go the other way, i'm going hurt their shoulder.

    I danced with an instructor the other night, I had no problems leading this move with her, and I asked her this question, - her answer to me was to turn body 90 degrees anti-clockwise as I move in & take the arm up.

    I am going to ask the question again to another instructor, as i'm not totally convinced.

    Have you come accross this? Any advice/tips you could offer me to Lead this move so there's never any ambiguity?

    Hope i've made sense.

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    Re: Advice on leading a Step Accross.

    This move works much better if you get the lady travelling forwards before raising the hand ro pass under it and well before introducing the lead for her 180 degree turn.

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    Re: Advice on leading a Step Accross.

    What Andy said: lead the lady forward first, with a firm but continuous pull (not a single, staccato yank). Then move the hand upward so you can step under it to your left, and then turn and sweep.

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    Registered User Phil_dB's Avatar
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    Re: Advice on leading a Step Accross.

    Sounds like good advice thankyou, - I will try this out and see how I get on, many thanks.

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    Re: Advice on leading a Step Accross.

    Visualise the step across. Feel the step across. Breathe the step across. Become the step across.

    Then U can lead it.

    I'll get me coat...

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    Re: Advice on leading a Step Accross.

    Quote Originally Posted by CJ View Post
    Visualise the step across. Feel the step across. Breathe the step across. Become the step across.

    Then U can lead it.

    I'll get me coat...


    One more thing, master. What did you mean when you spoke about the sound of one hand leading?

    Is the C in CJ for Confucius?

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    Re: Advice on leading a Step Accross.

    What I say to my taxi class is that in general when the lady turns, the man should be placing her hand more or less directly over her head so that she has a pivot point directly above her. In the step across the man should keep his hand above his own head, and when the lady feels that her arm isn't being raised over her own head she will hopefully recognise that she isn't meant to try and turn under it. It's more or less analogous to the 'swooshing' motion already mentioned, but easier to visualise if you're new to dancing (or just fick like me )

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    Re: Advice on leading a Step Accross.

    Quote Originally Posted by CJ View Post
    Visualise the step across. Feel the step across. Breathe the step across. Become the step across.
    Then, a Jedi you shall be.

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    Re: Advice on leading a Step Accross.

    Been thinking about the beginner moves in some detail recently...

    The step-across:

    • Starts lead's left to follower's right. On every count of the move, you should be preparing for the next count; so on the step back, don't step directly back - you should end up facing the same direction, just off-set slightly to the left. (half a body's worth)
      You are going to turn anti-clockwise, so you may find it easier to step back with the right foot on this count. (Andy can pick himself up now)
      Keep the hands low in the initial step back - don't start to raise them until you want to turn; a hesitant or confusing mid-level hand can give the follower confused signals and an 'excuse' to start turning before you intend them to.

    • When leading the follower to step forward, actually lead them to step forward before raising your hand to turn under it. You are the one turning, so your hand should be above your head (a hand's width above your scalp). There should be no 'pulling' or leading while turning - the follower's hand is just in contact with yours so you know where it is; if there is, then it will pull you off balance.
      Leave turning until as late as you can - the last half of the count. If you step onto the right foot and then use the 'push' part of the step from the left to start your pivot it will get the timing better.
      Place the right foot in line with the foot the follower steps forward on - go past and you will contort & twist at the end of your pivot, don't step far enough and you will contort & twist to get into the pivot.
      I tend to use my right hand on this count as a guide; thumb to the floor, guiding the follower's hip past my right side (it only makes contact with the follower if I have to block them and prevent them from turning - it's more a 'line' that the lead passes one side of and the follower the other.)

    • Continuing the 'flow' of the pivot; on the first half of the next count take the left foot beside the right (no weight on it yet) and face your partner. This quarter turn should drop your hand and pivot the follower to face you.
      You do not need to yank or pull the follower's arm to achieve a crisp turn out from this move: the momentum and sharpness of this quarter turn will do it for you - there isn't really any 'leading' to do other than keep your partner's hand with you as you turn.

    • If you've kept a note of your position and orientation on the floor, you should find that you are now facing a space to the left of the follower - if you rotate to face them and finish their turn to face you, then you will have started moving in circles around your partner. Nothing wrong with this if it's what you intend, but to keep it looking neat and controlled, have your body face the space (rather than your partner) and use the next step to re-align yourself.
      Various partners step back various distances. Personally I will either step horizontally back into line, or I will try and match the distance of follower's step back.
      The hands finish low as the weight settles onto the 'back' foot.
    Last edited by Gadget; 18th-November-2008 at 02:37 PM.

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    Registered User Phil_dB's Avatar
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    Re: Advice on leading a Step Accross.

    Thank you so much Gadget!

    It took me quite a while to read that - visualising descriptions can be time consuming in certain places.

    Interesting that you use your right had to block your partner if they start to turn the wrong way, - i'm wondering if they would take any notice of this guide, or simply just believe that i'm trying to grab a sneaky feel of their hip!

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    Re: Advice on leading a Step Accross.

    Quote Originally Posted by Phil_dB View Post
    Interesting that you use your right had to block your partner if they start to turn the wrong way, - i'm wondering if they would take any notice of this guide, or simply just believe that i'm trying to grab a sneaky feel of their hip!
    If your partner tries to turn the "wrong" way I think you should go with it. Once you start laying hands on your partner to wrestle or force them through the move it's stopped being a dance.

    Some ladies will turn the "wrong" way no matter how well you lead a move. Simply let them do it, nobody is watching, scoring, etc. Enjoy the dance and laugh at the mistakes - don't forget, they lady thought she should be going that way, she wasn't "wrong" until you told her she was or grabbed her hip to force her to turn the opposite way from the way she was going.

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    Re: Advice on leading a Step Accross.

    Quote Originally Posted by CJ View Post
    Visualise the step across. Feel the step across. Breathe the step across. Become the step across.

    Then U can lead it.

    I'll get me coat...
    Quote Originally Posted by Robin View Post
    Then, a Jedi you shall be.
    And if she turns the wrong way cut her arm off with your light sabre - she'll never make the mistake again.

    I practice more or less what CheesyRobMan does. If I'm leading a step-across I bring my left hand back towards my body in a straight line, lifting it at the last moment and taking it up so my hand passes over my left shoulder creating an arch over my own head with the follow's right arm. If you do that the arch cannot be over the follow's head and (mostly) they will not turn until after you've walked manfully past them and brought the hand down as you turn 180 degrees ACW to face.

    As Andy says though if you see the follow start to turn go with it, or you won't need a light sabre to remove their right arm!

    Agent 000
    Licensed to Dance

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    Re: Advice on leading a Step Accross.

    Quote Originally Posted by Agente Secreto View Post
    As Andy says though if you see the follow start to turn go with it, or you won't need a light sabre to remove their right arm!
    Although the light sabre is still handy to cauterize the stump.

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    Re: Advice on leading a Step Accross.

    Quote Originally Posted by Phil_dB View Post
    Interesting that you use your right had to block your partner if they start to turn the wrong way, - i'm wondering if they would take any notice of this guide, or simply just believe that i'm trying to grab a sneaky feel of their hip!
    Seldom do I actually touch my partner with the right hand - it's not really necessary, but it also has the advantage of making sure that I am not too close or too far away from them during my turnie bit.

    It's the same sort of thing as raising the right arm for a man-spin: you are covering the same ground, stepping in the same places, moving in the same way... As long as you don't "offer" the hand as you step in
    For the follower, the man-spin, shoulder-slide and step-across should all feel the same at the start & end and they should move along the same path for each. Your movements should also be very similar.

    {BTW if you lead the follower forward before turning yourself, seldom do they try and turn - those that do will try to turn themselves, and so be starting the prep for it instead of coming forward with your lead: this means that you have advanced warning and can put the blocking hand in place (if necessary)}
    Last edited by Gadget; 18th-November-2008 at 06:47 PM.

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    Re: Advice on leading a Step Accross.

    Not sure that Gadget's ever "wrestled" or 'forced' me into any moves - not that I've had that much Gadget experience but I don't think I'd ever be able to use those words abouthis dancing style!

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    Re: Advice on leading a Step Accross.

    Quote Originally Posted by gamebird View Post
    Not sure that Gadget's ever "wrestled" or 'forced' me into any moves - not that I've had that much Gadget experience but I don't think I'd ever be able to use those words dancing style!
    I hear that Gadget is a lovely dancer

    As far as I know, Gadget is not a teacher. Even when you are a teacher it is hard to describe moves in writing. So it's understandable that Gadget will sometimes give advice that seems wrong on here. The advice Gadget gave was the wrong advice. He obviously realised as he modified and qualified his advice in a later post.

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    Registered User Phil_dB's Avatar
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    Re: Advice on leading a Step Accross.

    I attempted to put the advice given to me in this thread into practice last night, - and not once did anyone spin the "wrong" way, - and that included a lady I danced with last week - who spun the "wrong" way.

    So many thanks again.

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    Re: Advice on leading a Step Accross.

    Quote Originally Posted by gamebird View Post
    Not sure that Gadget's ever "wrestled" or 'forced' me into any moves - not that I've had that much Gadget experience but I don't think I'd ever be able to use those words abouthis dancing style!
    Quote Originally Posted by Andy McGregor View Post
    I hear that Gadget is a lovely dancer
    Gadget never wrestles you anywhere (unless you ask him to ), is the perfect gentleman - until you get him onto the blues floor , and one of the best move masters in the business

    Whitetiger retires hoping that Gadget is coming to the Black and White Ball, Ed in December .

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    Re: Advice on leading a Step Accross.

    :fishhook:
    Quote Originally Posted by Andy McGregor View Post
    As far as I know, Gadget is not a teacher. Even when you are a teacher it is hard to describe moves in writing. So it's understandable that Gadget will sometimes give advice that seems wrong on here.
    As a teacher, Andy is entitled to believe that his opinions on how a move should be executed are superior to everyone else's.
    No matter if you are a beginner, a teacher or a world class champion dancer, text describing actions can be difficult and sometimes misconstrued. I've had a little bit of practice at it (both describing and misconstruing ) and still sometimes fuzzy things when trying to clarifying them.
    The stepping bit on this move is a bit tricky, but it's a three count move and the basic marching footwork for transferral of weight should still apply: You turn anti-clockwise, so it's more natural to pivot on your left foot in the middle count; this means that the first and last counts must be on the right. R-L-R.

    You can reverse the footwork, but you need to do a couple of things to make it work smoothly. (Step straight back, keeping hips orientated in same direction. Step further to the follower's right so you don't knock them when pivoting.) I will sometimes use this footwork if I am stepping forward out of the step-across rather than back.

    The advice Gadget gave was the wrong advice. He obviously realised as he modified and qualified his advice in a later post.

    I fail to see anything even slightly wrong in the advice given... even the bit about the right hand on the follower's hip when taken out of context isn't "wrong" - I could see it as a different way to lead the same move, but not "wrong".

    (If anything it's a strange styling on the move: No teachings anywhere have I heard or read anything about the right hand on the step-across - what to do or not do with it has no real bearing on the move it's self. This is my suggestion that makes the move easier for the lead to get the follower moving how they intend. It is supplemental and in most cases superfluous to the execution of the move. Therefore using the right hand like this can't be 'wrong'. )

    Quote Originally Posted by whitetiger1518 View Post
    Whitetiger retires hoping that Gadget is coming to the Black and White Ball, Ed in December .
    Dunno yet. Let me get the Beach Ballroom out the way and see what happens from there.

    {PS what do I owe you and gamebird? }
    Last edited by Gadget; 19th-November-2008 at 03:02 PM.

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    Re: Advice on leading a Step Accross.

    Dunno yet. Let me get the Beach Ballroom out the way and see what happens from there.

    {PS what do I owe you and gamebird? }[/quote]
    Why dances of course!
    II'll be at the Beach Ballroom - somewhere in the long queue!!

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