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Thread: Well done Barack Obama - how long before racism is a dinosaur?

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    Re: Well done Barack Obama - how long before racism is a dinosaur?

    Quote Originally Posted by David Bailey View Post
    Come on people, have you all been asleep for the past 8 years? Have you not noticed the complete c***-up Bush has made? Is there anyone anywhere left, who thinks he's been good for, well, anything?
    Out-takes?

    Elaine

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    Re: Well done Barack Obama - how long before racism is a dinosaur?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jivejunkie View Post
    Hold on, If America has such a racist history ..[snigger]... How can anyone believe that all of a sudden all this has been turned on it's head and over half of the citizens of the states voted Obama in simply because he's black!
    Ant never said anything about Obama getting votes because he was black ? what are you on about ? that's crazy talk!

    Come on - do you really believe that people are so gullible that they would entrust somebody with their money and their lives simply because of their physical attributes.
    Ever heard of marriage ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Trouble View Post
    Why is it about time a black person acheived a big one.
    Shows the world is moving on, and that maybe we'll attain civilisation in my lifetime. Doubt it though

    Black people have put up with **** but so have disabled, deaf, blind people, women just as a few examples.
    The only valid comparison there is women, and they (white ones anyway) got the vote and other benefits before black men and women did.

    It irritates me this type of comment about how bloody hard done by blacks are or have been. All our older generations had it hard for different reasons as did women.
    Yes, it has pretty much sorted itself out. And if this was about the first woman in a major political position the rhetoric would no doubt be similar.

    He should be in his position because he can do what he promises to do and thats it.
    Im sure he is.

    Quote Originally Posted by ElaineB View Post
    The fact that there are people in the USA who would still remember this and possibly still suffer from prejudice, or indeed inflict it makes the election of Barack Obama very poignant.
    That sums it all up really.

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    Re: Well done Barack Obama - how long before racism is a dinosaur?

    Quote Originally Posted by David Bailey View Post
    Have you not noticed the complete c***-up Bush has made?
    ooOOOoooh, is that the really rude word that we are hardly ever allowed to use of the really really rude word that we're never ever allowed to use.

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    Re: Well done Barack Obama - how long before racism is a dinosaur?

    Quote Originally Posted by Double Trouble View Post
    ooOOOoooh, is that the really rude word that we are hardly ever allowed to use of the really really rude word that we're never ever allowed to use.
    No - "Bush" is not yet an internationally-recognised swear word. Amazingly.

    Quote Originally Posted by ElaineB View Post
    Out-takes?
    Actually, it's a sad day for satirists, they may have to actually work for a living now rather than have their material handed to them on a plate.

    For example:
    Editor's Corner - Yahoo! News UK

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    Re: Well done Barack Obama - how long before racism is a dinosaur?

    Quote Originally Posted by ElaineB View Post
    I still find it quite incredible that the USA, 'the land of the free' did not allow the 'black vote' until 40 years ago.
    I'm not underestimating the degree of discrimination and oppression, but that statement is just plain wrong!

    In point of fact, the 15th Amendment to the US Constitution (effective since 1870) specifically states: "The right of citizens of the United States to vote shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any State on account of race, color, or previous condition of servitude." Even before that, several states allowed voting by any free man.

    How several states in the South got around the provisions of the 15th Amendment was to apply literacy tests to the right to vote - these were notoriously anti-black in their application and it wasn't until the various Civil Rights legislative measures of the 1960s that these restrictions on voter registration were struck down.

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    Re: Well done Barack Obama - how long before racism is a dinosaur?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadful Scathe View Post
    The only valid comparison there is women, and they (white ones anyway) got the vote and other benefits before black men and women did.
    Err, nope!
    Presumably we're still discussing the USA. Black men were permitted to vote by the Fifteenth Amendment to the US Constitution (1870) - the Fourteenth Amendment (1867) had specifically defined citizens as "male". Although several individual states granted female suffrage at various times over the next 50 years, it wasn't until the Nineteenth Amendment in 1920 that women in the USA were granted the right to vote in federal elections:
    "The right of citizens of the United States to vote shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any State on account of sex."

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    Re: Well done Barack Obama - how long before racism is a dinosaur?

    Quote Originally Posted by John S View Post
    Err, nope!
    Presumably we're still discussing the USA. Black men were permitted to vote by the Fifteenth Amendment to the US Constitution (1870) - the Fourteenth Amendment (1867) had specifically defined citizens as "male". Although several individual states granted female suffrage at various times over the next 50 years, it wasn't until the Nineteenth Amendment in 1920 that women in the USA were granted the right to vote in federal elections:
    "The right of citizens of the United States to vote shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any State on account of sex."
    Thanks for the information John. Was the application of literacy tests applied to women as well?

    Elaine

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    Re: Well done Barack Obama - how long before racism is a dinosaur?

    Quote Originally Posted by David Bailey View Post
    No - "Bush" is not yet an internationally-recognised swear word. Amazingly.


    Actually, it's a sad day for satirists, they may have to actually work for a living now rather than have their material handed to them on a plate.

    For example:
    Editor's Corner - Yahoo! News UK
    He is an ex-alcoholic, perhaps his brains were unrevokedly addled.

    Quote Originally Posted by John S View Post
    I'm not underestimating the degree of discrimination and oppression, but that statement is just plain wrong!

    In point of fact, the 15th Amendment to the US Constitution (effective since 1870) specifically states: "The right of citizens of the United States to vote shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any State on account of race, color, or previous condition of servitude." Even before that, several states allowed voting by any free man.

    How several states in the South got around the provisions of the 15th Amendment was to apply literacy tests to the right to vote - these were notoriously anti-black in their application and it wasn't until the various Civil Rights legislative measures of the 1960s that these restrictions on voter registration were struck down.
    Obama mentions in his Speech, the happenings at Montgomery and Birmingham. Also the bridge at Selma where Martin Luther King was leading a peaceful march and troops hemmed the marchers on the bridge and shot at them.

    These are in the Southern States where you could have your house torched, be murdered and tortured if you had the courage to register to vote.

    If you look at the Election results, those racist states of the past, Alabama, Lousiana, Georgia, Kentucky etc called for McCain.

    There is still a form of segregation in both the north and south of the USA
    - white residential areas where black, Hispanics etc do not live. It's not like our cities where everyone is mixed together.
    Last edited by Astro; 6th-November-2008 at 04:01 PM.

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    Re: Well done Barack Obama - how long before racism is a dinosaur?

    Quote Originally Posted by Astro View Post
    There is still a form of segregation in both the north and south of the USA - white residential areas where black, Hispanics etc do not live. It's not like our cities where everyone is mixed together.
    Ummm.... you do know that London actually does have ethnic groupings? Places like Little Italy, Golders Green, Brixton, Cricklewood, and others are well-known for that. So there's quite a bit of "segregation" even in relatively cosmopolitan cities.

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    Re: Well done Barack Obama - how long before racism is a dinosaur?

    i think by the tone of this joke ive been received today racism is not yet a dinosaur... I'll share it with you just so you can see what i mean.

    History was made today as Barack Obama became the first black man to walk into the whitehouse without a mop.

    I must add, i did laugh.

    Is this wrong do we think?

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    Re: Well done Barack Obama - how long before racism is a dinosaur?

    Quote Originally Posted by ElaineB View Post
    Was the application of literacy tests applied to women as well?
    Yes, once they were given the right to vote (after 1920). Before then it wouldn't have been necessary.

    There's an excellent timeline of women's suffrage HERE which shows that in the early days of the republic women actually had the vote in some states, before (white) men really got a grip!

    Quote Originally Posted by Astro View Post
    ...... the happenings at Montgomery and Birmingham. Also the bridge at Selma where Martin Luther King was leading a peaceful march and troops hemmed the marchers on the bridge and shot at them.
    Minor point, but I don't think guns were used at the Edmund Pettus bridge - certainly there were tear-gas attacks, the troopers used billy-clubs and bull-whips, and several marchers were hospitalised after the first march. As far as I know no-one actually died from the attacks, but of course that was down to luck more than anything else. However, a WHITE minister died from a beating in Selma after the second march. The third march made it to Montgomery without violence, after a federal judge intervened.

    Quote Originally Posted by Astro View Post
    If you look at the Election results, those racist states of the past, Alabama, Lousiana, Georgia, Kentucky etc called for McCain.
    Indeed. It's also probable that over the whole country the majority of white voters voted for McCain. Certainly the majority of black voters voted for Obama. So it's premature to say that race doesn't matter in US elections - however it is fair to say that it matters less than it did, and that is part of a continuing trend, so there is progress!
    Last edited by John S; 6th-November-2008 at 07:58 PM.

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    Re: Well done Barack Obama - how long before racism is a dinosaur?

    Quote Originally Posted by Astro View Post
    There is still a form of segregation in both the north and south of the USA
    - white residential areas where black, Hispanics etc do not live. It's not like our cities where everyone is mixed together.
    umm...that'll be why we don't have any area related race riots then (Bradford, Toxteth, Brixton etc..)

    I think you'll find there is segregation everywhere in the world, but the trouble because of it will vary. Language, skin colour, culture, religion are all reasons for the "not like us syndrome" inspired in the "locals". Add extra trouble when both groups see themselves as "locals"

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    Re: Well done Barack Obama - how long before racism is a dinosaur?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadful Scathe View Post
    umm...that'll be why we don't have any area related race riots then (Bradford, Toxteth, Brixton etc..)

    I think you'll find there is segregation everywhere in the world, but the trouble because of it will vary. Language, skin colour, culture, religion are all reasons for the "not like us syndrome" inspired in the "locals". Add extra trouble when both groups see themselves as "locals"
    You are always going to get segregation, there will always be a 'them and us' syndrome with numerous reasons for segregation and thats why it'll never stop! You've got your Sex Descrimination, Race descrimination, Age Descrimination but there are 100's of sections of the community

    I've just been in conversation with an old school pal at work and we were reminded about the gang warfare in the 70's just because of Wolves and Manchester United and the two local schools (It's quite funny because now most of these 'gang members' all work here in...'semi-perfect' harmony (it's the them and us syndrome....Management/ shopfloor!!) - but I doubt there will ever be 'Football' or school descrimination. But some of these football riots over the years are on a par with such as the Brixton and Birmingham riots.
    And what about the Blues/ Boing-Boing in Ceroc OK I'll doubt we will get open-battles but it's there, and there will always be an excuse to segregate.
    It always will be there no matter how many rules and regulations you put in place - just a fact of life I suppose!

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    Re: Well done Barack Obama - how long before racism is a dinosaur?

    I hate to be critical but don't you think the fact that 95% of blacks voted for Obama and only something like 45-55% of whites (can't remember the figure) kind of is racist?

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    Re: Well done Barack Obama - how long before racism is a dinosaur?

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisB View Post
    I hate to be critical but don't you think the fact that 95% of blacks voted for Obama and only something like 45-55% of whites (can't remember the figure) kind of is racist?
    Yeah, it is, but not in the way you are suggesting.

    Thank about it.

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    Re: Well done Barack Obama - how long before racism is a dinosaur?

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisB View Post
    I hate to be critical but don't you think the fact that 95% of blacks voted for Obama and only something like 45-55% of whites (can't remember the figure) kind of is racist?
    No. Sigh...statistics. 78.6% of people don't understand them . Considering 88% of black people voted Democrat in 2004...don't be silly

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    Re: Well done Barack Obama - how long before racism is a dinosaur?

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisB View Post
    I hate to be critical but don't you think the fact that 95% of blacks voted for Obama and only something like 45-55% of whites (can't remember the figure) kind of is racist?
    Nope, it means you're not using the term correctly.

    Yes, Obama got a high percentage of the African-American vote, but so has every Democratic candidate. I'm not completely convinced that Obama did much to even woo the black demographic - if anything, he's distanced himself from them.

    He's not a "black candidate", he's a Democratic candidate, who just happens to be black, and he's explicitly positioned himself that way all through the campaign.

    Just because the media are now going nuts ("Ooh, look! He's black! I never noticed!"), and just because they're all interviewing black people all over the place, don't get swept up by the colour thing.

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    Re: Well done Barack Obama - how long before racism is a dinosaur?

    Quote Originally Posted by David Bailey View Post
    Ummm.... you do know that London actually does have ethnic groupings? Places like Little Italy, Golders Green, Brixton, Cricklewood, and others are well-known for that. So there's quite a bit of "segregation" even in relatively cosmopolitan cities.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadful Scathe View Post
    umm...that'll be why we don't have any area related race riots then (Bradford, Toxteth, Brixton etc..)
    It's true that different races tend to group together and have there own shops selling their favoured diet. The Jewish population started out in Whitechapel, a very poor area. Now the Asians live there. But non Jews and non Asians have always lived there too.
    Plus white people live in Brixton, Hackney, Harlseden and always have.

    In London certain areas have a high population of blacks. But there is nothing to stop black people living anywhere they choose as long as they can afford to, just like whites. Also Council housing is everywhere in London.

    The posh and the poor live cheek by jowl, whether black or white.
    Same goes for a poor white family living in the same street as a rich black family.



    In the USA there are black areas where whites don't live. Also white areas where blacks are not allowed to buy or rent. In New York black people initially lived in greenwich, but were pushed up to Harlem.

    Michelle Obama who grew up in tough South Side Chicago - the ghetto referred to in Elvis's song - said recently that Chicago is still segregated.

    The exception is the very rich blacks - for example like Eddie Murphy who live in Beverley Hills.

    Plus the Obamas who will move into The White House on 20th January.
    Last edited by Astro; 7th-November-2008 at 03:31 PM.

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    Re: Well done Barack Obama - how long before racism is a dinosaur?

    Quote Originally Posted by David Bailey View Post
    Nope, it means you're not using the term correctly.

    Yes, Obama got a high percentage of the African-American vote, but so has every Democratic candidate. I'm not completely convinced that Obama did much to even woo the black demographic - if anything, he's distanced himself from them.

    He's not a "black candidate", he's a Democratic candidate, who just happens to be black, and he's explicitly positioned himself that way all through the campaign.

    Just because the media are now going nuts ("Ooh, look! He's black! I never noticed!"), and just because they're all interviewing black people all over the place, don't get swept up by the colour thing.
    Yes as I think DT was getting at I didn't mean that quite so literally. But for anyone not so informed, I'm just saying that race will always be a part of US politics and this result doesn't change that.

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    Re: Well done Barack Obama - how long before racism is a dinosaur?

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisB View Post
    Yes as I think DT was getting at I didn't mean that quite so literally. But for anyone not so informed, I'm just saying that race will always be a part of US politics and this result doesn't change that.
    Some senior black people hadn't voted since Kennedy, because non of the candidates since have offered them anything.

    Didn't Kennedy promise to ratify the voting rights for black people, so the Civil Rights Movement would not be needed?

    John S will know more than me. I think Kennedy took about 8 months to get around to it when he became President.

    The other thing is that 98% of the black population registered to vote, actually went to the polling stations. A very high figure.

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