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Thread: Well done Barack Obama - how long before racism is a dinosaur?

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    re: Well done Barack Obama - how long before racism is a dinosaur?

    Quote Originally Posted by ant View Post
    Its about time a black person is achieving the big one.

    Black people generally have had to put up with so much sh-t for so long, lets hope its the beginning of the end for them and for all forms of racism whatever form that takes.
    isnt some big shot defence/ministry type a black man??

    Why is it about time a black person acheived a big one.

    Black people have put up with **** but so have disabled, deaf, blind people, women just as a few examples.

    It irritates me this type of comment about how bloody hard done by blacks are or have been. All our older generations had it hard for different reasons as did women.

    He should be in his position because he can do what he promises to do and thats it.

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    re: Well done Barack Obama - how long before racism is a dinosaur?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jivejunkie View Post
    Hold on, If America has such a racist history (alegedly), right back to the anti-black confederates, and the KKK, and remember the uproar about the New Orleans/ Louisiana Hurricane a couple of years ago, about help not forthcoming because they were black. How can anyone believe that all of a sudden all this has been turned on it's head and over half of the citizens of the states voted Obama in simply because he's black!
    Well, firstly because there's (clearly) been no evidence of a Bradley Effect in the voting - people have voted the way they said they would, in contrast to the way they did 25 years ago.

    In other words, it's clear, from actual polling data, that Americans have become less racist over the past couple of decades, at least with regards to who they're prepared to vote for.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jivejunkie View Post
    A few months ago there was the real possibility of a women getting in - was that simply because she was a woman?
    Actually, I think there's probably more sexism than racism in US politics at the moment - whilst Palin is indeed an idiot, some of the attacks on her (family, wardrobe etc.) did smack a bit of sexism to me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jivejunkie View Post
    Come on - do you really believe that people are so gullible that they would entrust somebody with their money and their lives simply because of their physical attributes.
    Well yeah - what, you think an ugly person won't be at a disadvantage in an election, for example?

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    Formerly known as DavidJames David Bailey's Avatar
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    re: Well done Barack Obama - how long before racism is a dinosaur?

    Quote Originally Posted by Trouble View Post
    isnt some big shot defence/ministry type a black man??
    You're maybe thinking of Colin Powell - he was National Security Advisor, then Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, then he was Secretary of State. None of those positions were elected.

    Quote Originally Posted by Trouble View Post
    It irritates me this type of comment about how bloody hard done by blacks are or have been.
    Mmmm.... African Americans are a bit different though, because of the slavery thing. They do have some sort of a point about unique discrimination for that - unlike other oppressed minorities. It's the difference between prejudice and institutional oppression.

    Quote Originally Posted by Trouble View Post
    He should be in his position because he can do what he promises to do and thats it.
    There we agree - I'm more happy that he's competent than that he's black, I'd have been as happy with a competent white guy in fact.

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    re: Well done Barack Obama - how long before racism is a dinosaur?

    Quote Originally Posted by David Bailey View Post
    you think an ugly person won't be at a disadvantage in an election, for example?
    Have you seen the French PM?

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    re: Well done Barack Obama - how long before racism is a dinosaur?

    Quote Originally Posted by David Bailey View Post


    Mmmm.... African Americans are a bit different though, because of the slavery thing. They do have some sort of a point about unique discrimination for that - unlike other oppressed minorities. It's the difference between prejudice and institutional oppression.


    .
    blimey shall we go back to the roman days then when they took slaves of all colours and creed. Shall we also include prostitutes who to this day are slaves to their pimps or their addictions.

    I mean yes... blacks were not accepted for a long time but they are now and have been for a long time. This was dispicable but blimey...... lets move on and celebrate an election for what should be rather than its a great triumph for blacks who have had it so bad.

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    Wink re: Well done Barack Obama - how long before racism is a dinosaur?

    Quote Originally Posted by David Bailey View Post
    Well yeah - what, you think an ugly person won't be at a disadvantage in an election, for example?
    Well personally I didn't think Thatcher was much of an oil painting, Ann Widdecombe? and for the sake of balance (Not wanting to be sexist you understand!!) Harold Wilson, Lembert Opick (Whatever the spelling is - mind you its all subjective not being cheeky!!)

    Well there's loads arn't there!

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    re: Well done Barack Obama - how long before racism is a dinosaur?

    Quote Originally Posted by Double Trouble View Post
    Have you seen the French PM?
    Yes.

    And I remember he was running against a woman, who had to put up with some quite sickeningly sexist comments from her own party.

    So basically, you're making my point for me, yes?

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    re: Well done Barack Obama - how long before racism is a dinosaur?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadful Scathe View Post
    Thatcher was a good symbol for women in power ? Very popular was she ? Peoples princess perhaps ?
    Dunno about the "people's princess" bit (which of course she never claimed to be) but she was certainly popular enough to win 3 general elections on the trot in 1979, 1983 and 1987.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jivejunkie View Post
    Come on - do you really believe that people are so gullible that they would entrust somebody with their money and their lives simply because of their physical attributes.
    Absolutely yes, I do believe that - for example in the vast majority of US presidential elections since the advent of photography and mass media (19 out of 27 in the 20th & 21st centuries), the taller man has won, and it's happened again this time - check out this if you doubt that statement. Instinctively we trust big, tall, strong people when we are in real or imagined danger.

    I want justice for the oompa-loompas of the world.
    Last edited by John S; 5th-November-2008 at 05:33 PM. Reason: Short men can't jump

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    re: Well done Barack Obama - how long before racism is a dinosaur?

    Quote Originally Posted by David Bailey View Post
    Yes.

    And I remember he was running against a woman, who had to put up with some quite sickeningly sexist comments from her own party.

    So basically, you're making my point for me, yes?
    no your confirming my point.. Women are still fighting it.

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    re: Well done Barack Obama - how long before racism is a dinosaur?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jivejunkie View Post
    Hold on, If America has such a racist history (alegedly)
    Allegedly????

    Are joking or what!!!!

    and I suppose 200 years of slavery don't count.

    And I did not just say America.

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    re: Well done Barack Obama - how long before racism is a dinosaur?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jivejunkie View Post
    Well personally I didn't think Thatcher was much of an oil painting, Ann Widdecombe? and for the sake of balance (Not wanting to be sexist you understand!!) Harold Wilson, Lembert Opick (Whatever the spelling is - mind you its all subjective not being cheeky!!)

    Well there's loads arn't there!
    OK, so what part of "disadvantage" did you take to mean "impossible"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Trouble View Post
    blimey shall we go back to the roman days then when they took slaves of all colours and creed.
    You wouldn't like me in a toga, trust me on that one.

    Quote Originally Posted by Trouble View Post
    I mean yes... blacks were not accepted for a long time but they are now and have been for a long time. This was dispicable but blimey...... lets move on and celebrate an election for what should be rather than its a great triumph for blacks who have had it so bad.
    It's not "not being accepted" - it's "not being free in recent times", and "not being allowed to vote in living memory", that sort of thing.

    Basically, up until 40-50 years ago, the USA was an apartheid regime in some states. That's the "institutional" bit - which, to my mind, makes a difference.

    But yes, you can take victimisation too far. Obama won on his merits - with a disciplined, organised, and positive campaign. And I hope he approaches the presidency that way.

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    re: Well done Barack Obama - how long before racism is a dinosaur?

    Quote Originally Posted by ant View Post
    Allegedly????

    Are joking or what!!!!

    and I suppose 200 years of slavery don't count.

    And I did not just say America.
    AND......

    should black people get a better run in life now then because of the slavery thing?

    Do we owe something as a race to black people?

    Well i can answer that for you, no we do not. We owe nothing. So no, slavery for the last 200 years does not count when it comes to current affairs.

    The only thing that should count as i have said previously is ability, experience, tallness (apparantely thats quite important) LOL and what they can do for the USA.

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    re: Well done Barack Obama - how long before racism is a dinosaur?

    Quote Originally Posted by David Bailey View Post
    So basically, you're making my point for me, yes?
    Moi? My bonnet de deuce is over flowing with Châteauneuf du Pape at the prospect.

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    re: Well done Barack Obama - how long before racism is a dinosaur?

    Quote Originally Posted by David Bailey View Post
    Mmmm.... African Americans are a bit different though, because of the slavery thing.
    It's not quite the argument-ender that a lot of people would love it to be, though. Most Africans who ended up in slavery were sold into it by their fellow Africans looking to make a quick buck. The continent isn't exactly in the greatest of shape these days either, just look at what's going on in Congo for 5 minutes if you need reminding that given half a chance, humanity will rape, mutilate, enslave and massacre each other regardless of skin colour.

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    re: Well done Barack Obama - how long before racism is a dinosaur?

    Originally posted by Trouble
    Why is it about time a black person acheived a big one
    .
    40% of the US voters are black there have been 43 presidents up until now there has not been one black president. There are 50 states and approx 200 senators that gives about 10,000 of these in the life of the USA only 6 have been black.

    Originally posted by Trouble
    Black people have put up with **** but so have disabled, deaf, blind people, women just as a few examples.
    Nobody is saying disabled, deaf and blind people have not put up with sh-t but nobody has gone out of their way to give them **** and it could be argued that the sh-t they suffer is unavoidable. Black people have suffered avoidable sh-t its been heaped on them just because they are black.

    originally Posted by Trouble
    It irritates me this type of comment about how bloody hard done by blacks are or have been. All our older generations had it hard for different reasons as did women.
    Like I said what happened to black people was just because they were black and nobody is saying older generations have not had it hard. But however hard our ancestors had it in the 18th and 19th century they were free.

    originally Posted by Trouble
    He should be in his position because he can do what he promises to do and thats it
    On this we agree.

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    re: Well done Barack Obama - how long before racism is a dinosaur?

    originally Posted by Trouble
    should black people get a better run in life now then because of the slavery thing?

    Do we owe something as a race to black people?
    Nobody has said they should get a better run on life but conversely they should not get a worse run on life.

    Do we owe them something for all the sh-t heaped on them in the past, maybe?

    originally posted by Trouble
    Well i can answer that for you, no we do not. We owe nothing. So no, slavery for the last 200 years does not count when it comes to current affairs.
    If you are going to ask me a question let me answer it, if you want to make a statement please do so.

    Originally posted by Trouble
    The only thing that should count as i have said previously is ability, experience, tallness (apparantely thats quite important) LOL and what they can do for the USA
    I think due to the unique history of black people his success being voted president has another significance, especially for black people but as regards his ability etc I have said on this we agree.

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    Re: Well done Obama Barack - how long before racism is a dinosaur?

    Quote Originally Posted by CheesyRobMan View Post
    It's not quite the argument-ender that a lot of people would love it to be, though. Most Africans who ended up in slavery were sold into it by their fellow Africans looking to make a quick buck. The continent isn't exactly in the greatest of shape these days either, just look at what's going on in Congo for 5 minutes if you need reminding that given half a chance, humanity will rape, mutilate, enslave and massacre each other regardless of skin colour.
    I am not sure that fellow black Africans were the prime movers and I think it was white crews that took them to America, white people that then sold them and white people that carried on enslaving them.
    Yes I do agree with you that some African countries are having their problems.

    but I am confused, are you saying that the problems in Africa are a question of race and this justifies the way black people are treated.

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    Re: Well done Barack Obama - how long before racism is a dinosaur?

    Quote Originally Posted by Double Trouble View Post
    Moi? My bonnet de deuce is over flowing with Châteauneuf du Pape at the prospect.
    Phwoar, I love it when you talk posh at me.

    Anyway, moving on to your common-as-muck sis:
    Quote Originally Posted by Trouble View Post
    AND......

    should black people get a better run in life now then because of the slavery thing?
    "Black people" in general? No, I don't think so.

    African Americans? That's a bit more problematic. In some limited areas, that's happened already, the whole positive discrimination thing. I'm not sure if it's very effective, however.

    Quote Originally Posted by Trouble View Post
    Do we owe something as a race to black people?
    Who's "We"? I'm half-Welsh...

    Quote Originally Posted by Trouble View Post
    The only thing that should count as i have said previously is ability, experience, tallness (apparantely thats quite important) LOL and what they can do for the USA.
    Actually, I'm more interested in what they can do for the UK and the world.
    For example:
    - Not starting any more bleedin' wars British soldiers get killed in
    - Not causing massive worldwide recessions affecting the British economy
    - Not denying global warming and not blocking international climate change action
    - Not treating diplomacy as a dirty word
    - Not sanctioning torture and illegal detentions

    In fact, not being George "untrained monkey" Bush, basically.

    Come on people, have you all been asleep for the past 8 years? Have you not noticed the complete c***-up Bush has made? Is there anyone anywhere left, who thinks he's been good for, well, anything?

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    Re: Well done Barack Obama - how long before racism is a dinosaur?

    Quote Originally Posted by CheesyRobMan View Post
    It's not quite the argument-ender that a lot of people would love it to be, though. Most Africans who ended up in slavery were sold into it by their fellow Africans looking to make a quick buck. The continent isn't exactly in the greatest of shape these days either, just look at what's going on in Congo for 5 minutes if you need reminding that given half a chance, humanity will rape, mutilate, enslave and massacre each other regardless of skin colour.
    Oh, I know - and for that matter, Obama's ancestors weren't slaves.

    I'm just saying, the slavery thing in America is one of those areas (like gun control, abortion, and baseball) that we in the UK don't really get; it's not "just" racism / sexism / prejudice like over here, it's something far more powerful in US life. The USA is not a bigger version of the UK, and projecting our assumptions onto it in some areas simply doesn't work.

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    Re: Well done Barack Obama - how long before racism is a dinosaur?

    I still find it quite incredible that the USA, 'the land of the free' did not allow the 'black vote' until 40 years ago. That prejudice surely stemmed from the the attitude that arose towards them as a result of being slaves and looked upon as not being 'acceptable'.

    The fact that there are people in the USA who would still remember this and possibly still suffer from prejudice, or indeed inflict it makes the election of Barack Obama very poigniant.

    No-one should get preferential treatment because of the colour of their skin, their gender, age etc., but equally, no-one should be kept down because of it. In America 40 years ago, Barack would not have been allowed to vote, in some States he would not have been allowed to share a bus with white people, schools and shops were segregated and this 'preferential' treatment should be remembered with shame.

    In my view Barack Obama has been voted in because he is the best man for the job and no doubt there are some out there who would never have voted for him because of his colour and some that would have voted for him because of it. To win this election though, he did it on his policies, personality, hard work and as with every election, a bit of luck.

    I wish him well and I hope that it makes anyone who has suffered oppression feel that they can climb a mountain, even if it only a little one.


    Elaine

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