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Thread: Do 'great' dancers, need more, or less space?

  1. #21
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    Re: Do 'great' dancers, need more, or less space?

    Quote Originally Posted by martingold View Post
    someone who is lesser (ie 7 stone and 4 ft tall)
    You lookin' at me?

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    Registered User martingold's Avatar
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    Re: Do 'great' dancers, need more, or less space?

    Quote Originally Posted by Andy McGregor View Post
    You lookin' at me?

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    Formerly known as DavidJames David Bailey's Avatar
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    Re: Do 'great' dancers, need more, or less space?

    Good question

    Quote Originally Posted by Lory View Post
    Do, 'great' (experienced) dancers need more, or less, floor space than Mr average?
    I think that experienced dancers can make more and better use of a lot of space - for example, if I see an empty row, I have an overpowering urge to do some walks along it

    Similarly, whilst I can dance Tango in tiny spaces, I also like large spaces to play with - a planeo's not easy in a packed environment.

    In addition, there could be several specific factors to the Utopia thing:
    - Expectations: if you have a lot of elite dancers in one place, they all have expectations of being "given" space to do their thing in, from us lesser mortals; watch a normal crowd at a normal Ceroc night, and you'll see there's a subtle space-grabbing / conceding dynamic going on around the best dancers. The problem is, if everyone's good, that dynamic just doesn't work.
    - WCS: as a couple of people have said, WCS probably requires more space than MJ - and if there are a concentration of WCS dancers at an MJ venue, or people who are used to dancing WCS-stylee, that could also cause problems.
    - Connection: if you're more connected to your partner, you're more likely to feel their "stifled" emotions, and more likely to sense when they're not dancing at their top.

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    Re: Do 'great' dancers, need more, or less space?

    Quote Originally Posted by robd View Post
    When a floor is very busy I do get very irritated when the follower takes it upon themselves to abort a movement and or execute a direction change because they sense impending danger. I know this is absolutely as it should be, their first responsibility is to their wellbeing but it still irritates me as it implies a lack of faith in my ability to keep them safe and completely ruins any kind of flow that the dance has
    I don't think it's personal because whoever I'm dancing with, i always instinctively protect myself without thinking. Plus females have better periprial vision. It's like the anology on the car thread, however safe the driver, some other fool can cause your car to crash.

    I suppose what you mean is that if she had followed you a tad more you would have sent her to a safe spot?
    Quote Originally Posted by David Bailey View Post
    Good question


    I think that experienced dancers can make more and better use of a lot of space - for example, if I see an empty row, I have an overpowering urge to do some walks along it
    I love to travel too....

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    Re: Do 'great' dancers, need more, or less space?

    Quote Originally Posted by David Bailey View Post
    watch a normal crowd at a normal Ceroc night, and you'll see there's a subtle space-grabbing / conceding dynamic going on around the best dancers.
    What I think it more common is the great and the good giving a lot of room to the bad-but-think-they're-great dancers - this is to avoid collisions.

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    Re: Do 'great' dancers, need more, or less space?

    Quote Originally Posted by robd View Post
    My floorcraft is sometimes good and sometimes less good and I think many people are the same. When a floor is very busy I do get very irritated when the follower takes it upon themselves to abort a movement and or execute a direction change because they sense impending danger. I know this is absolutely as it should be, their first responsibility is to their wellbeing but it still irritates me as it implies a lack of faith in my ability to keep them safe and completely ruins any kind of flow that the dance has but I am veering off topic.
    I can sort of understand your irritation, but unless it's someone you very regularly dance with, then how are they to know that you have the skills to keep them safe? Sadly, most leads don't The more I dance, the more astounded I am at some of the moves some leads think it's OK to execute on a very crowded dancefloor. I often find myself having to take evasive action, though where possible I'll try and keep it within the flow of the dance. And even extremely good leads who know how to take care of their follows can fall victim to some other numpties efforts...

    As for the main topic under discussion, I'm so used to dancing in crowded venues, that I find it a huge luxury when there is suddenly plenty of space and I've got a partner who will use it Sadly, this only seems to happen at weekenders. Even if more space does develop towards the end of a normal class night or freestyle, the habit of dancing small/evasively has set in for the night...

    Surely everyone would like more space to dance in, whether beginner, intermediate, experienced of dance god? It's just a question of the business finding the balance between making money and allowing enough space for the dancers... and that is going to depend on their motivation at any one time.

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    Re: Do 'great' dancers, need more, or less space?

    Quote Originally Posted by ant View Post
    What struck me last night is how much more room WCSers need to dance compared to us MJers. It seems to me they work across a slot and so cannot adapt the amount of space they need to the situation.

    On a more general point I think almost anybody would want more space and the more the better because this gives much more scope for the variety of dancing you can lead.

    However on a crowded floor you just have to reduce the space you use go much more UCP with hip movement and body roll type moves, which I still find enjoyable.

    I think when the amount of space available is very small I just enjoy the challenge of leading in those circumstances.
    I think you will find that most of WCS fraternity enjoy a long slot so that they can extend their dance.

    Having seen Paul Warden dance with Cat at Southport in the bouncy room where their slot was the size of a postage stamp was truly inspirational
    I have seen Paul also dance at Blackpool with Caro where he kept the slot a small as possible

    So I would say the better dancers enjoy lots of room but they are still very capable of making a dance very enjoyable to follow aswell as watch in a very confined space.

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    Re: Do 'great' dancers, need more, or less space?

    Great dancers should be able to adapt no matter how much space they have.


  9. #29
    Forum Bombshell - Our Queen! Lory's Avatar
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    Re: Do 'great' dancers, need more, or less space?

    Quote Originally Posted by robd View Post
    When a floor is very busy I do get very irritated when the follower takes it upon themselves to abort a movement and or execute a direction change because they sense impending danger.
    The trouble is, not all leads read the floor and are able to adjust the dance according to the space, as well as you are.

    If follows have had a few bad experiences, natural instincts will take over to protect themselves, even if the danger isn't a 'real' one.

    So, I wouldn't take it personally Rob, its not a reflection of 'you' and how much they trust you, its probably just reflex reactions
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    Re: Do 'great' dancers, need more, or less space?

    Fairly fitting that I'm reading this thread on the way back from the London Balboa Festival (for those that don't know, 'pure' Balboa = fast dance for small spaces)

    Anyway.

    Forgetting all this 'great' dancer / 'lesser' dancer malarky...

    I've seen, as I'm sure many of us have, some highly skilled dancers whose floorcraft sucks, if you'll pardon the Americanism, and some relatively new dancers whose floorcraft is excellent.

    This is a social dance. You do not need much space to have an amazing, connected, expressive, musical and fulfilling dance. If you're performing or otherwise showing off - well - that's a different story.

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    Re: Do 'great' dancers, need more, or less space?

    Quote Originally Posted by straycat View Post
    I've seen, as I'm sure many of us have, some highly skilled dancers whose floorcraft sucks, if you'll pardon the Americanism, and some relatively new dancers whose floorcraft is excellent.
    I would never dream of breaking forum rules so I won't name and shame...

    BUT...

    I do need to get this off my chest.

    At Daventry in the blues room, there was one couple in particular.. I say couple, but she looked way less guilty than he did.. they were both nice dancers BUT he was a complete c0ck in terms of floorcraft. The amount of near misses he had... it was car crash tv. It was horrible to watch, yet biazarrely mesmerising, too... He was sooooooooooooooooo determined to do his thing and lead his partner in all manner of spacey moves, that people were avoiding where he was on the floor, and it still wasn't enough.

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    Re: Do 'great' dancers, need more, or less space?

    Quote Originally Posted by CJ View Post
    I would never dream of breaking forum rules so I won't name and shame...

    BUT...

    I do need to get this off my chest.

    At Daventry in the blues room, there was one couple in particular.. I say couple, but she looked way less guilty than he did.. they were both nice dancers BUT he was a complete c0ck in terms of floorcraft. The amount of near misses he had... it was car crash tv. It was horrible to watch, yet biazarrely mesmerising, too... He was sooooooooooooooooo determined to do his thing and lead his partner in all manner of spacey moves, that people were avoiding where he was on the floor, and it still wasn't enough.
    I remember once at Ealing I was dancing with someone who was the same.
    I noticed there was a huge, massive, circle of space around us, even though the floor was packed.
    I just felt so embarrassed, it was impossible for me to have any control over him, though I tried.

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