Brownies - yes or no?

[Lorna]

My daughter has just asked about joining The Rainbows.

I am an ex-Brownie myself and loved it. I would love Lauren to also enjoy this experience. I am, however, concerned with the Brownie Promise (which has been changed/adapted over the years).

She will have to recite that she loves her God. (Santa springs to mind again)

Can't we get away from this? Children are exposed to this enough.
She already refers to the nativity she did last year in school as "The Jesus Show" (Don't get me started on this one!!!) She is 6 years old by the way. And before you comment, we keep our feelings on religion away from our children.

Which begs my question, should I put up and shut up and let her have fun with her mates? I think I have just answered my own question.
It just angers me.

But would appreciate some advice from anyone else who is in a similar situation.

Lotsa love Lorna x-x

[Brian Doolan]

Put up and shut up Lorna and let her have fun with her mates.
She'll make her own mind up about religion, as you have yours, when she's older, just tell her not to take the fairy tales too seriously

[jeanie]

I loved the brownies too. I guess it's not too bad if they're not specifying which god the loves, if that's your main concern. As you say Santa is pretty influential at this time of year

[Villemo]

In the United Kingdom, the Brownie Promise is:
I promise that I will do my best, To love my God, To serve the Queen and my country, to help other people, And to keep the Brownie Guide Law. The Brownie Guide Law is:
A Brownie Guide thinks of others before herself and does a good turn every day. The Brownie motto used to be Lend a Hand (LAH). With the introduction of the new program in the United Kingdom, the motto was dropped for Brownies.
(Source: Wikipedia)

I think I agree with the "put up and shut up" approach here.
You loved being a brownie, I know I did, and it didn't stop us from forming our own opinions on religion or anything else.
I think it'll be good for her, both fun and educational. She'll have her whole life ahead of her to for her own opinions.

(Noooooo, I spent my 100 post on the brownie post???)

[jeanie]

The Brownie motto used to be Lend a Hand (LAH). With the introduction of the new program in the United Kingdom, the motto was dropped for Brownies.
(Source: Wikipedia)

I remember the lend a hand... and what a rank uniform we had to wear. But what fun we used to have.

(Noooooo, I spent my 100 post on the brownie post???)

That just means you'll have to post more to get that 200th....

[Lorna]

Thanks guys,

just got to convince my hubby!!

Lxx

[Gadget]

In the United Kingdom, the Brownie Promise is:
I promise that I will do my best, To love my God, To serve the Queen and my country, to help other people, And to keep the Brownie Guide Law. The Brownie Guide Law is:
A Brownie Guide thinks of others before herself and does a good turn every day.

The main change is "to love my God" so that they can take in Satanists, Muslims, Buddhists, and any other religious creed. There is a religion badge, but I'm fairly sure that it's non-denominational.

Have a look at Girlguiding UK - Who we are - What do Brownies do? for more information... OK, it's perhaps bias, but you'll get an idea of what they are aiming for.

You could put her to Beavers, but they also have a god in the promise. The scouting organisation is for boys and girls now. Guides have the blessing of the queen to be sexist, so it's OK.

{My mum was and is a 'brown-owl', (been to a few brownie camps myself ) my daughter goes to Brownies and used to go to Beavers, my wife ran the local Beavers in the village, she is a leader in the local guides, her mum was a guide leader, ... so I get roped into doing stuff for them :sigh: }

[Revdrop]

My daughter has just asked about joining The Rainbows.

I am an ex-Brownie myself and loved it. I would love Lauren to also enjoy this experience. I am, however, concerned with the Brownie Promise (which has been changed/adapted over the years).

She will have to recite that she loves her God. (Santa springs to mind again)

Can't we get away from this? Children are exposed to this enough.
She already refers to the nativity she did last year in school as "The Jesus Show" (Don't get me started on this one!!!) She is 6 years old by the way. And before you comment, we keep our feelings on religion away from our children.

Which begs my question, should I put up and shut up and let her have fun with her mates? I think I have just answered my own question.
It just angers me.

But would appreciate some advice from anyone else who is in a similar situation.

Lotsa love Lorna x-x

I respect Lorna's integrity in trying not to appear hypocritical.

At face value it is difficult for some-one with strong 'beliefs' (if I can use that word?!) to then go against them, especially with your own daughter. Suggestions along the lines of, 'It doesn't really matter, just do it for the good of being part of Brownies', may not solve the philosophical problem?

One possibility may be to help Lauren understand that one of the aims of the organisation is to help Brownies do good, not bad, and that the word 'god' is probably being used to help people work towards 'good' rather than bad. In this context a 'god' could perhaps be described to Lauren as 'that which has most importance in a person's life.' Something so important that it is 'worshipped'... ie 'given worth to' by people. This could be a set of values... or a person.... or a supernatural entity... or a combination. Perhaps you could explain to Lauren (using simpler terms than I've used above) about these differences, and what you yourselves 'give worth to'. In the course of this you can say that you do not believe in a supernatural 'god' but that there are other things that you think are really important to live for. Then ask Lauren what she thinks are the most important things in her life... (it may even be the goldfish!... but I would imagine even for a 6 year old there are more 'worthy' contenders!), and then explain that when she says the words 'god' in the oath, she can be referring to these things or person or values that she would seek to uphold in her life. That would then help you all to be true to your 'beliefs' without compromising any integrity?

[Lorna]

Hi,

some good stuff here. We have decided to let her go. Will perhaps use some of this advice next time she asks about 'God'.

It's funny, Tim remembers doing this very same thing when he was being dragged along to church as a teenager.

Thanks for all the advice

Lotsa love lorna xx

[~*~Saligal~*~]

There are worse things that a daughter could want to be into with her friends... I would be relieved if my daughter wanted to join the brownies! At least most of the values seem to be worthwhile supporting. As someone has already mentioned, the religious focus is usually lost on most kids anyway... Just think.. when her friends find something else to get into soon, she will move from brownies and on to something else.