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Thread: Join me in a pledge!!!!!!!

  1. #141
    Registered User martingold's Avatar
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    Re: Join me in a pledge!!!!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Gerry View Post

    All I can say is don't knock yourself ,as a young lady once said to me, "nobody has died, its just a dance, get over it". Never a truer word said.


    Lastly, don't stop asking people for dances.

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    Re: Join me in a pledge!!!!!!!

    It's taken me a long time to decide if I want to post on this thread again as a result I can't be bothered to go back and find the post I want to quote.

    Basically some people feel that some of the posts by 'non-pledger' are nasty. I guess that it depends on what you read into them.

    I haven't taken the pledge, as it's not the right thing for me. I do however feel the pledge is a good thing in that it is trying to promote a positive atmosphere.

    I think the issues have arisen in the way that some of the posts have been written, when some people have said that they won't pledge/don't agree with the pledge etc their posts can be read with a tone that appears to be trying to turn everyone against the pledge. Knowing quite a few of the people that haven't pledge I doubt that this is what they want to do at all. Like I have said before on the forum, we all need to read our posts carefully before posting to try and avoid misinterpretation!

    However I do feel the actions of some members of this forum who seem to continual stir things, across a number of threads has lead to all of us being a little wary of each other and have found this forum to be less friendly than it has been in the past.

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    Re: Join me in a pledge!!!!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Georgious dancer View Post
    =

    However I do feel the actions of some members of this forum who seem to continual stir things, across a number of threads has lead to all of us being a little wary of each other and have found this forum to be less friendly than it has been in the past.
    Yeah I have to agree with that sentiment - I don't know what it is - but I avoided for the forum for a few days, then I came back - and I felt - crikey, if I was a newbie, I would not be encouraged to post or get involved. It was the vibe maaan......

    Anyway, in the future for the most part, I will just stick to the Fun&Games threads - and the music stuff.

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    Re: Join me in a pledge!!!!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Georgious dancer View Post
    It's taken me a long time to decide if I want to post on this thread
    I haven't taken the pledge, as it's not the right thing for me.
    However I do feel the actions of some members of this forum who seem to continual stir things, across a number of threads has lead to all of us being a little wary of each other and have found this forum to be less friendly than it has been in the past.
    Honestly i cant see where anybody has been nasty. People including yourself dont want to take the pledge for various reasons.. i have re-read the posts again.. What is it that is making it seem nasty to you.

    Quote Originally Posted by JiveLad View Post
    Yeah I have to agree with that sentiment - I don't know what it is - but I avoided for the forum for a few days, then I came back - and I felt - crikey, if I was a newbie, I would not be encouraged to post or get involved. It was the vibe maaan......

    Anyway, in the future for the most part, I will just stick to the Fun&Games threads - and the music stuff.
    You see again JL i cant understand this statement. How can people take the forum so seriously.. its just a discussion point and people are going to disagree....as you do in real life.. doesn't mean that person is all of a sudden nasty or evil or should make somebody come off/stop posting. Its madness.

    Its only chat/points of view/ dancing fun.... Wow come on wake up and smell the ridiculousness of it.

  5. #145
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    Re: Join me in a pledge!!!!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Trouble View Post
    Honestly i cant see where anybody has been nasty. People including yourself dont want to take the pledge for various reasons.. i have re-read the posts again.. What is it that is making it seem nasty to you.



    You see again JL i cant understand this statement. How can people take the forum so seriously.. its just a discussion point and people are going to disagree....as you do in real life.. doesn't mean that person is all of a sudden nasty or evil or should make somebody come off/stop posting. Its madness.

    Its only chat/points of view/ dancing fun.... Wow come on wake up and smell the ridiculousness of it.
    Trouble, I didn't say that anybody had been nasty just that we all need to take more care when posting. Everybodies perception of things are different. I do feel that some of the people posting both for and against the pledge are so set in their beliefs that they are making people that feel differently to them uncomfortable about having a differing belief.

    Likewise when I said that the actions of some people who like to stir things up is having a negative effect on the atmosphere of this forum I didn't say that this was done to be nasty. Again I just feel that perhaps the stirring has been taken a little too far and whilst it may have been amusing to start with it is now causing upset to some people, and I doubt highly that any of us want to cause upset.

    When yourself or someone is upset by a certain action it is human nature for you to become more sensitive towards similar situations. Therefore this could be what is causing the negative feelings that some of us have identified.

    I have not meant to cause offence to anyone by my post, I just wanted all of us to take a step back and think before we post. Discussion and debate is great but not when we begin to upset others, especially when we did not intend to.

  6. #146
    Registered User Twirly's Avatar
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    Re: Join me in a pledge!!!!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Georgious dancer View Post
    Trouble, I didn't say that anybody had been nasty just that we all need to take more care when posting.

    *snip*

    I have not meant to cause offence to anyone by my post, I just wanted all of us to take a step back and think before we post. Discussion and debate is great but not when we begin to upset others, especially when we did not intend to.
    I agree. But unfortunately the meaning is in the mind of the reader. Sadly, things become misinterpreted quite easily, particularly as there is an absence of non-verbal communication. Which is presumably why some feel that people can be "not-nice" on here, but nice in real life.

    However, that is no reason not to take care when we post that what we are saying is clear, and minimally open to misinterpretation. And similarly, when we read posts, we should err on the side of caution, and assume until proven otherwise that the person is being positive in their comments. And if you do find yourself being upset by something, try and remember that these are just pixels in cyberspace, and don't really matter. And long live friendly debate and discussion!

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    Re: Join me in a pledge!!!!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Twirly View Post
    unfortunately the meaning is in the mind of the reader. !
    A very true point and i totally agree.

    What seems ok to some maybe not to others.

    I still dont think anything out of order has been said of this thread, i have read through it all and dont see why there should be any upset at all.

    Its a open discussion about who people want to dance with and why they might or might not take the pledge.

    Oh by the way.... i wont be taking the pledge, i dont need too. I dance with anybody that will have me.

  8. #148
    Forum Bombshell - Our Queen! Lory's Avatar
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    Re: Join me in a pledge!!!!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Twirly View Post
    unfortunately the meaning is in the mind of the reader. Sadly, things become misinterpreted quite easily,
    If anyone thought I was being nasty, them I'm afraid, they've got me all wrong

    Quote Originally Posted by Trouble View Post

    I still dont think anything out of order has been said of this thread, i have read through it all and dont see why there should be any upset at all.


    Its a open discussion
    Yes, that's the whole point of a forum, isn't it?

    I wish people wouldn't take things so personally, when someone merely disagrees with an idea they have.
    It really does stifle debate, if one has to constantly consider, that the person your debating with, might be offended by the fact you've dared to say, actually, I don't agree with that

    Just because someone disagrees with you, doesn't mean they don't like you, or they think your stupid, or that they're being nasty, they JUST have a difference of opinion
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  9. #149
    Registered User Twirly's Avatar
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    Re: Join me in a pledge!!!!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Lory View Post
    :I wish people wouldn't take things so personally, when someone merely disagrees with an idea they have.


    I think that the problem is that people don't think "oh, they disagree with my idea", they think and feel "oh, they disagree with me, they must think I'm awful I've got to defend myself or no-one will respect me".

    I know that I've done it occasionally but I try and admit when I've got it wrong and apologise. It's human nature unfortunately.

  10. #150
    Registered User Easily Led's Avatar
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    Re: Join me in a pledge!!!!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Trouble View Post
    A very true point and i totally agree.
    Oh by the way.... i wont be taking the pledge, i dont need too. I dance with anybody that will have me.
    Although I know that you are an extremely friendly and welcoming person (and also a taxi dancer?) I can imagine that beginner men might feel intimidated about asking you because of your legendary (and much loved) UCP dancing style. What I think DTS was trying to do was to get very good and confident dancers to remember to think about the shy beginners at freestyles and make a real effort to seek them out. I think this applies more to male top dancers than to female as sometimes anything male with a pulse is very welcome! Top male dancers are grabbed so quickly by the more confident women that others (who may be equally good dancers) are left sitting out.

  11. #151
    Registered User ant's Avatar
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    Re: Join me in a pledge!!!!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Gadget View Post
    I disagree .....improve by dancing with better dancers. You won't. You get back as much as you put in.......... If you just want to appear to be a better dancer, then dance with someone that makes you look good. There are times that this is all I look for in a dance: to show off, be extravagant, flamboyant and have someone on my arm that makes me look fantastic Can't say I learn much from dances like that, but they are damn good fun
    .
    Where you dance with a follow just to "makes you look good", don't you think there is still a big learning curve for the leader.

    For that follower to do all those moves that are making you look good as a leader, you must give her confidence in you as a leader, in whatever form that takes in her mind.

    So you may not feel you are improving your physical dance ability but you sure are improving your empathetic (if that is a word) abilities.

    Thinking about it is that not what good leading is all about, being as empathetic as possible to your follower, and is that not the best pledge all leaders can make.

  12. #152
    Registered User ant's Avatar
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    Re: Join me in a pledge!!!!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Lory View Post
    say, actually, I don't agree with that
    That sounds so much more friendly than, I don't agree with YOU.

    That is the point some of us are trying to make. Absolutely make your point but please wherever possible try not to make it personal.

    If it really has to be personal and may be negetive in some way (in my opinion the default then should be not to say it) think really hard before saying it and think of the possible effect it may have on the other person.

  13. #153
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    Re: Join me in a pledge!!!!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Lory View Post
    If anyone thought I was being nasty, them I'm afraid, they've got me all wrong
    You're not a nasty person, sorry if you thought I implied you were, I most certainly don't think that!


    Quote Originally Posted by Lory View Post

    I wish people wouldn't take things so personally, when someone merely disagrees with an idea they have.
    It really does stifle debate, if one has to constantly consider, that the person your debating with, might be offended by the fact you've dared to say, actually, I don't agree with that

    Just because someone disagrees with you, doesn't mean they don't like you, or they think your stupid, or that they're being nasty, they JUST have a difference of opinion


    Quote Originally Posted by Twirly View Post

    I think that the problem is that people don't think "oh, they disagree with my idea", they think and feel "oh, they disagree with me, they must think I'm awful I've got to defend myself or no-one will respect me".
    I love debate/discussion. Whenever we have a family dinner we have to allow an extra hour around the table as we always end up debating something or other! I really enjoy listening to what people have to say about a subject, (that's partly why I joined this forum) sometimes I agree, somtimes I disagree and sometimes I end up have my own beliefs changed.

    Debate is a great way for people to challenge and quesion their own beliefs! However, debate does have that danger of making people defensive and self conscious.

    I wholeheartedly agree that we are all entitle to our own opinion. However it is important that we remember to acknowledge other people's beliefs and not to think that someone is a lesser person, is attacking us, is nasty etc etc because they do not think the same as us! Infact we should celebrate these difference, they are what make us who we are and at the end of the day if we all thought the same thing this place would be soooo boring.

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  14. #154
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    Re: Join me in a pledge!!!!!!!

    so we all agree then.

    Nobody was nasty.

    Everybody has a difference of opinion and doens't make it nasty.

    Some are a little less tactful than others

    We are all luvvie duvvie deep down.


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    Re: Join me in a pledge!!!!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by ant View Post
    Where you dance with a follow just to "makes you look good", don't you think there is still a big learning curve for the leader.
    Myself, no. It's these times that I try and put into practice what I've learned all the other times.

    ... If I screw up, then yes - I will probably learn from it.
    (hmmmm.... OK I think I've just argued myself into a corner: just relaxing and going with it probably means I'm more likely to mess up which in turn means I'm more likely to learn... So as long as you are open to learning and don't concentrate on a specific thing, then you are going to learn when dancing with a follower that "makes me look good". Damn! And I was all set to disagree )

    For that follower to do all those moves that are making you look good as a leader, you must give her confidence in you as a leader, in whatever form that takes in her mind.
    You must do this no matter the dancer you're dancing with; no matter their level or how "good" they make you look. That's half the secret to good dancing - self belief and self confidence - being able to radiate a calm air that everything is under your control (even/especially when you have no idea what's happening).

    Thinking about it is that not what good leading is all about, being as empathetic as possible to your follower, and is that not the best pledge all leaders can make.
    The main problem with this thread and the concept behind it is not the feeling that we should all be welcoming and empathic towards everyone else, especially beginners. Everyone here agrees with this concept. Most applaud DTS for his commitment to it.

    The problem is that a pledge is normally made to change your ways or strictly conform to a particular idea. For a lot of folk, there is no need to change because it's what they already do and there is no need to bind them to this idea because there will always be exceptions to be made.

  16. #156
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    Re: Join me in a pledge!!!!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Gadget View Post
    I will stand up and say that I will NOT take this pledge.

    Why? because I find it demeaning and infantile. I wholeheartedly support the concept behind it, but think that this is in danger of forming more of a "clique" than the refusers and hot-shots do.

    Would I make a pledge to step on my right foot after my left, unless I'm not walking etc.? Would I make a pledge to breath out every time I breathed in? Does the irony of it not strike you? : let's make a clique of people to disband other cliques.

    Why 3 people? Why exclude people you have already danced with? Why do I need to be told that there is a threshold that makes you "good" if you're on one side and "bad" if you're on the other? Why encourage segmentation within a dance form that goes a long way to eliminate every other "ism"?
    I won't pledge this because there may be times when I know everyone. There may be times that I don't get the chance to dance with new faces. And more than anything, I object to being tied down to "3 or more".

    ? Pledge to try to do something? What's the point in a pledge like that? A pledge is a do not a try - do or do not: there is no try.

    Did you take a pledge of allegiance to the queen and country? No? Why do you follow it's laws and live by it's social and ethical ethos? Because you're a part of society and a member of the community. Do you need to take a pledge to the orange flag of MJ to be a part of it's society and part of it's community? Do you need to pledge allegiance to the almighty Franck to post on this forum?
    MJ has an ethos and openness that (as far as I am aware) is unequalled in any other dance form. To become a part of it you just need to turn up, dance and have fun. No pledges, no ties, no curriculum you have to follow, no having to dance with X or Y, no rules on footwork.

    Respect for making the pledge, but rabble-rousing should only be for people with a blue face and a cry of "FREEDOM!". {I have the image of an 'army' of MJers all moving forward and DTS crying "Who's with me?" while being carried along with the rest of the battalion.}

    Who is with me?

    {Edit: that "who's with me" was left in from DTS post by accident, but I like the irony }
    This is an example of a post which is over the top and franckly quite upsetting.

    Now I dont know you Gadget, and I am sure you are a nice chap, however this post is INHO nasty and unpleasant.

    Unfortunatly the Forum is full of these types of posts lately.

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    Re: Join me in a pledge!!!!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by dave the scaffolder View Post
    This is an example of a post which is over the top and franckly quite upsetting.

    Now I dont know you Gadget, and I am sure you are a nice chap, however this post is INHO nasty and unpleasant.

    Unfortunatly the Forum is full of these types of posts lately.
    So your posting again now

    Look DTS - you have no reason to take Gadgets thread as nasty, upsetting or in any other way than his opinion. He is entitled to it and he is not slating you, he is just giving his point of view over.

    Whats the big deal.

    I would have thought you of all people would have learn't by now... take it all with a pinch of salt.. smile sweetly and leave em to it. Your opinion is yours.. everyone else's is theres. There is no snake pit here, there is no evil nastiness.... Mostly we should be working and instead we are on here discussing issues some good, some funny, some ridiculous and sometimes they get a little heated ..... We all have done it including you (get heated i mean), we all laugh about it and we will all continue to laugh about it for many years and hug when we see them on the dance floor.

  18. #158
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    Re: Join me in a pledge!!!!!!!

    Thank you for your wise words.

  19. #159
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    Re: Join me in a pledge!!!!!!!

    Dave, it's great to have you back . In fact you have saved me the trouble of starting a "Come back DTS, the forum just ain't as much fun without ya" thread which I was honestly going to do.

    By all means avoid certain threads if you think they have taken an untoward direction but please keep posting elsewhere - I really need the entertainment

    So, are you going to be at Sara White's do tonight then?

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    Re: Join me in a pledge!!!!!!!

    No I am having a night in tonight then off to Martin's Birthday bash on the morrow.

    See you soon for a dance sweetie.

    As for posting I am miffed at my threads being taken over by unpleasantness and back biting.

    DTS XXX XXX

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