View Poll Results: What do you think about the level of moderation?

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  • Too strict

    2 7.14%
  • About right

    20 71.43%
  • Too lenient

    4 14.29%
  • Don't know

    2 7.14%
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Thread: Discussion about moderation

  1. #81
    Registered User martingold's Avatar
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    Re: Discussion about moderation

    Quote Originally Posted by Lory View Post
    Oi! Why am I at the bottom?
    more comfortable to sit on than the others ??

  2. #82
    Registered User martingold's Avatar
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    Re: Banned from Ceroc nationally, time to say goodbye

    Quote Originally Posted by David Bailey View Post

    Similarly, I stuck up for Lee / Woodface when he joined, not because I agreed with him, but because he was new. And I also did the same for the Trouble sisters, Fletch, and others. Again, not because I agree with or am Special Friends of these people - but because they were new.
    and me but now you know me you hate me the same as the rest in here do

  3. #83
    Formerly known as DavidJames David Bailey's Avatar
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    Re: Banned from Ceroc nationally, time to say goodbye

    Quote Originally Posted by Spiky Steve View Post
    To date all I have seen is that when people are unhappy with neg rep system they are told that they are the ones that are wrong and that the rules were not up for debate.
    I think you've mis-understood the comments.

    What we've said, typically, is that whingeing about neg rep is likely to get you more neg rep - that's all. It's not really a moderating affair - neg reps are one way for members to express their disapproval of posts made by other members, that's all.

    That's different to saying "neg reps rules are not up for debate" - I'm fairly sure no moderator has said such a thing.

    And yes, of course the rules are up for debate and discussion - I mean, blimey, what do you think this thread is for?

    Quote Originally Posted by martingold View Post
    and me but now you know me you hate me the same as the rest in here do
    I hate all of you, impartially.

  4. #84
    An Eclectic Toaster
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    Re: Discussion about moderation

    Quote Originally Posted by Spiky Steve View Post
    There are rules already are you suggesting that they are removed?
    Can you point me to any rules specifically concerning the treatment/behaviour of newcomers? Having scanned the "Forum Rules" I can find nothing of the sort, and frankly I'd prefer things to stay that way.

  5. #85
    Registered User Spiky Steve's Avatar
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    Re: Discussion about moderation

    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadful Scathe View Post
    Whilst that may be true in real life - is the virtual world the same? Is the online world not full of ideas ready to be shot down in an impersonal way ? Its not the same as a conversation at the Church Fete is it ?
    I refer you to the youTube comments beneath any popular video - are these "real life" people who normally speak like that? or is the internet just not the same thing as "real life" ?
    Why should people behave any differently in an online world? Yes ideas should be discussed and analysed, dicephering who wrote them, why and evaluating any evidence to support any idea or comment. Debate is great.

    I suggest to you that people will read what is written and people have thoughts and feelings based upon those writings. They will not be virtual feelings but the real thing.

  6. #86
    Registered User martingold's Avatar
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    Re: Banned from Ceroc nationally, time to say goodbye

    Quote Originally Posted by Lory View Post

    I'm not as silly as I look sometimes
    I was going to say something here then i read this
    Quote Originally Posted by Lory View Post
    The people I admire and appreciate the most on this forum, who don't have to result to getting personal and sarcastic
    and thought i would be in trouble when we meet on friday if i did so i am now too scared too

  7. #87
    Registered User Spiky Steve's Avatar
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    Re: Discussion about moderation

    Quote Originally Posted by Stuart M View Post
    Can you point me to any rules specifically concerning the treatment/behaviour of newcomers? Having scanned the "Forum Rules" I can find nothing of the sort, and frankly I'd prefer things to stay that way.
    I thought it was you who stated Netiquette dictated that we should treat newbies kindly. Are you happy that the existing rules remain the same?

    The rule I dislike is about neg rep and my thoughts are that if a newbie is struggling then a moderator could help.

  8. #88
    Registered User stewart38's Avatar
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    Re: Discussion about moderation

    Quote Originally Posted by Spiky Steve View Post
    People have different ideas on what is courteous.

    How will a newcomer know about taking the temperature. Are you agreeing with the suggestion of a welcome message which inlcudes the rules?

    There are rules already are you suggesting that they are removed?
    The point was starts with or soon becomes agressive

    The analogy with the bar holds

    Someone who comes into a bar orders a drink and makes no fuss isnt going to be treated any differently to the regulars

  9. #89
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    Re: Discussion about moderation

    Quote Originally Posted by Spiky Steve View Post
    I thought it was you who stated Netiquette dictated that we should treat newbies kindly. Are you happy that the existing rules remain the same?
    Um, yes.

    Since when were the terms "Netiquette" and "Ceroc Scotland Forum Rules" interchangeable? And when are you going to tell the rest of the Internet?

  10. #90
    Formerly known as DavidJames David Bailey's Avatar
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    Re: Discussion about moderation

    Quote Originally Posted by Stuart M View Post
    Since when were the terms "Netiquette" and "Ceroc Scotland Forum Rules" interchangeable? And when are you going to tell the rest of the Internet?
    Just to clarify:
    Netiquette - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Netiquette ... "network etiquette", is a set of social conventions that facilitate interaction over networks, ranging from Usenet and mailing lists to blogs and forums. ... The points most strongly emphasized about USENET netiquette often include using simple electronic signatures, and avoiding multiposting, cross-posting, thread hijacking, and other techniques used to minimize the effort required to read a post or a thread.

  11. #91
    Registered User Spiky Steve's Avatar
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    Re: Discussion about moderation

    Quote Originally Posted by stewart38 View Post
    The point was starts with or soon becomes agressive

    The analogy with the bar holds

    Someone who comes into a bar orders a drink and makes no fuss isnt going to be treated any differently to the regulars
    Analogy fails in my experience. Have you never walked into a bar full of regulars and everyone turns and watches you? Hardly being treated the same as the regulars.

    Inside of the bar the regulars comfort themselves that all is well because they agree with each other that it is. Even though their private conversations are broadcast to the world for all to hear to offend or cheer as may be.

  12. #92
    Registered User Spiky Steve's Avatar
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    Re: Discussion about moderation

    Quote Originally Posted by Stuart M View Post
    Um, yes.

    Since when were the terms "Netiquette" and "Ceroc Scotland Forum Rules" interchangeable? And when are you going to tell the rest of the Internet?
    Not sure I follow your point.

    You stated you did not want rules. I was asking if you were happy with the existing ones?

  13. #93
    Lovely Moderator ducasi's Avatar
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    Re: Discussion about moderation

    Quote Originally Posted by stewart38 View Post
    The point was starts with or soon becomes agressive

    The analogy with the bar holds

    Someone who comes into a bar orders a drink and makes no fuss isnt going to be treated any differently to the regulars
    I'm not so keen on the bar analogy, but I've looked back, and I can't say that swp was at all aggressive until a number of "regulars" had already had a go at her.
    Let your mind go and your body will follow. – Steve Martin, LA Story

  14. #94
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    Re: Discussion about moderation

    Quote Originally Posted by Spiky Steve View Post
    Not sure I follow your point.
    Then I'll try again. I originally responded to David Bailey about whether we should include rules specific to newcomers in the Ceroc Scotland Forum rules. I disagreed, citing the fact that newcomers have equal responsibility to self-moderate their behaviour. Capische?

    Quote Originally Posted by Spiky Steve View Post
    You stated you did not want rules.
    At no point have I stated that. There is very little on this Forum that annoys me, but having my words twisted in this manner is one of them. If you are saying that "I do not want rules specifically about newcomers", please say that. Your continual reference to "existing" rules suggests, however, that you think I'm talking about ALL the rules (since there are no existing rules specific to newcomers).
    Quote Originally Posted by Spiky Steve View Post
    I was asking if you were happy with the existing ones?
    There are no existing rules (and I'll underline this again ) specific to newcomers, so your question makes no sense to me.

    Perhaps we can move on?

  15. #95
    Registered User stewart38's Avatar
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    Re: Discussion about moderation

    Quote Originally Posted by Spiky Steve View Post
    Analogy fails in my experience. Have you never walked into a bar full of regulars and everyone turns and watches you? Hardly being treated the same as the regulars.

    Inside of the bar the regulars comfort themselves that all is well because they agree with each other that it is. Even though their private conversations are broadcast to the world for all to hear to offend or cheer as may be.

    Your missing the point

    If I walk into a bar for the first time and say this bar has got a poor reputation what should the response be ?

    I dont know how many newbies we have had on here in the last 6 months , a 100 ? I dont know only one has come to my attention

    If i choose to say to the regulars "who you staring at you **** ", then im going to get a reaction. Its not rocket science

    If I go into a new job, I can either say on my first day , isnt my manager crap or say where the drinks machine both will get different responses

  16. #96
    Forum Bombshell - Our Queen! Lory's Avatar
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    Re: Discussion about moderation

    Hmm, I'm not sure about the idea of, pandering to every 'newby's' ignorance's.

    I can just imagine it now........ The first 100 posts, you can say what you like and no ones allowed to challenge you, or say anything that might be taken the wrong way?... "you gotta love me, I'm the baby! "

    Surely a little common sense should prevail!

    I agree with Stewart and his pub analogy!

    The rep buttons, neg and pos are there for people to show their feelings about posts (and maybe their opinion of the attitude of the poster).
    Some, will use the feedback as educative. As it often gives a good insight into the minds of mind set of the fellow members Others unfortunately, will take it to heart and forever harbour negative feelings towards the 'repper'

    Its up to the individual to the decide how to take it.

    Maybe firstly though, they should have a look in the mirror and say to themselves, "this 'is' how i'm coming across on the forum, do I value that persons opinion and do I want to change? If not, laugh about it, disguard it and MOVE ON!
    Last edited by Lory; 8th-October-2008 at 05:10 PM.
    MODERATOR AT YOUR SERVICE
    "If you're going to do something tonight, that you know you'll be sorry for in the morning, plan a lie in." Lorraine

  17. #97
    Registered User stewart38's Avatar
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    Re: Discussion about moderation

    Quote Originally Posted by ducasi View Post
    I'm not so keen on the bar analogy, but I've looked back, and I can't say that swp was at all aggressive until a number of "regulars" had already had a go at her.
    By Post 6 she was taking on the whole bar and I still dont know what she drinks

    Quote Originally Posted by swp View Post
    And whether it's my first post and my 100th - does that really make any difference? maybe I should have buggered about posting tripe on a few random posts to make you all feel better, less threathened perhaps.

    jeez.

  18. #98
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    Re: Discussion about moderation

    Interactions between people require at least two actors. As a general rule, if one person inspires a similar reaction from most other people, the cause is that person, not most other people. This is true of all forms of social interaction - on-line, off-line or whatever.

    In most relatively civilised on-line forums, the way people are treated is primarily determined by the way they act. Being new or not has relatively little bearing on this (and nor should it - human behaviour is horribly easy to positively reinforce and very hard to negatively reinforce). Should a forum be reasonable - and I've found this one to be generally quite reasonable - then people by and large get the reactions their actions warrant. For myself, if someone reacts badly to me, the first place I look is my own behaviour.

    Any semi-structured social group develops something analogous to a culture: a set of norms, practices and (virtual) artefacts that are broadly accepted on the forum. These are typically far more important and powerful than any rules. These dictates are nearly always tacit, like all good cultural manifestations. More importantly, trying to encode norms into rules will fail: norms are far more fluid and reactive than formalised rules can ever be.

    Administrators and moderators can establish the norms and practices when a forum is relatively new. They can reinforce or attempt to change the norms and practices over the life of the forum. Generally, trying to change them is going to fail: you have to change the expectations of everyone who uses the forum (or introduce a whole lot of new people who with within the new frame). As a rule, this happens organically and is very, very difficult to direct.

    There are a number of broad categories of characters that you see on forums: flamer, guru, troll, newbie, cluebie, pedant, spammer, etc. I typically find they're useful getting a grasp on the particular forum. The best way to spot a person's established role is to see how other people respond to that person. Always interesting...

  19. #99
    Not a spoon! Lou's Avatar
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    Re: Discussion about moderation

    Quote Originally Posted by geoff332 View Post
    In most relatively civilised on-line forums, the way people are treated is primarily determined by the way they act. Being new or not has relatively little bearing on this (and nor should it - human behaviour is horribly easy to positively reinforce and very hard to negatively reinforce). Should a forum be reasonable - and I've found this one to be generally quite reasonable - then people by and large get the reactions their actions warrant. For myself, if someone reacts badly to me, the first place I look is my own behaviour.


    In the olden days of Nettiquette there was a trite phrase - "Lurk Before You Leap". When newbies take the time and trouble to get to know the culture of a forum before they post, they'll avoid accidentally falling into the same traps that Spikey Steve highlighted.

  20. #100
    Registered User Spiky Steve's Avatar
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    Re: Discussion about moderation

    Quote Originally Posted by stewart38 View Post
    Your missing the point

    If I walk into a bar for the first time and say this bar has got a poor reputation what should the response be ?

    I dont know how many newbies we have had on here in the last 6 months , a 100 ? I dont know only one has come to my attention

    If i choose to say to the regulars "who you staring at you **** ", then im going to get a reaction. Its not rocket science

    If I go into a new job, I can either say on my first day , isnt my manager crap or say where the drinks machine both will get different responses
    Yes I understand your point on comments attracting attention.

    I read your evidence of the 1 in a 100 and do not disagree.

    I have also suggested to a number of people about why they are not on the forum and some read and some won't post because of the opinion they have made about the forum. Probably the real question is whether the forum has a poor reputation or not?

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