View Poll Results: What do you think about the level of moderation?

Voters
28. You may not vote on this poll
  • Too strict

    2 7.14%
  • About right

    20 71.43%
  • Too lenient

    4 14.29%
  • Don't know

    2 7.14%
Page 1 of 8 12345 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 145

Thread: Discussion about moderation

  1. #1
    Forum Bombshell - Our Queen! Lory's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    North London
    Posts
    9,918
    Blog Entries
    2
    Rep Power
    17

    Cool Discussion about moderation

    Moved from the "Leaving Ceroc" thread - David


    Quote Originally Posted by swp View Post
    As someone further up mentioned - this forum does have a bad reputation, I entirely agree with that, and can now see why.
    Hi swp and welcome to the forum

    Let me introduce myself, I'm Lory and I'm one of your friendly moderators, my job is to try and make the forum a 'fair' place, where people are free to post their opinions, experiences, ideas and such like.

    The forum itself, is just a empty vessel, which in itself, cannot have a bad reputation.

    Therefore, it can only be the members OR the moderating team, who have the bad rep?

    As moderators, we to allow people to speak freely, which in many circumstances is applauded by the majority but sometimes unfortunately, it all gets a bit tricky.

    Now, as someone who's new to the forum, if you have any idea's on how we can improve the reputation, without removing the right to free speech, please don't hesitate to tell us!
    Last edited by David Bailey; 7th-October-2008 at 08:56 PM.
    MODERATOR AT YOUR SERVICE
    "If you're going to do something tonight, that you know you'll be sorry for in the morning, plan a lie in." Lorraine

  2. #2
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Here.
    Posts
    60
    Rep Power
    8

    Re: Banned from Ceroc nationally, time to say goodbye

    Quote Originally Posted by Lory View Post
    Hi swp and welcome to the forum

    Let me introduce myself, I'm Lory and I'm one of your friendly moderators, my job is to try and make the forum a 'fair' place, where people are free to post their opinions, experiences, ideas and such like.

    The forum itself, is just a empty vessel, which in itself, cannot have a bad reputation.

    Therefore, it can only be the members OR the moderating team, who have the bad rep?

    As moderators, we to allow people to speak freely, which in many circumstances is applauded by the majority but sometimes unfortunately, it all gets a bit tricky.

    Now, as someone who's new to the forum, if you have any idea's on how we can improve the reputation, without removing the right to free speech, please don't hesitate to tell us!
    Sorry but I disagree that a forum can't have a reputation. A forum is no different to a club, whether that's a dance club or a cacti growing club. Clubs will always have a reputation based upon it's members / mods / management - it's too cliquey, it's really friendly, they're really generous with their time and welcoming, they're disorganised and not worth bothering with etc. (and just so we're clear I am NOT aiming any of these at any specific club).

    In the case of this forum, my own personal observations (and I have lurked in the past too so this is not just based in this thread) are that you have some particularly vocal members who often come across as being aggressive. It seems pretty cliquey too, with a pack mentality - one person who isn't in the gang says something which a pack member doesn't like, and before you know it you have the whole pack on their case. Would be so nice if people could think for themselves.

    How could you improve it? Not sure I know the answer to that, but it would go someway to helping I think if the arsey / aggressive ones could be brought into line, publicly by a mod when things start to get heavy or way off-topic.

    FWIW I am a mod on another forum (unrelated) - we have a couple of gobby ones who have had the potential to scare off noobs, it's only after a carefully chosen word on forum, and by pm if required, that things have been smoothed over. There is a difference between free speech, and potential bullying - and when the whole pack mentality thing kicks in that is what you get.

    And before the obvious responses come flooding in, no I am not a particularly sensitive soul. If I was I would have left a couple of pages ago. Lory asked, and I answered.

  3. #3
    Forum Bombshell - Our Queen! Lory's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    North London
    Posts
    9,918
    Blog Entries
    2
    Rep Power
    17

    Re: Banned from Ceroc nationally, time to say goodbye

    Quote Originally Posted by swp View Post
    Sorry but I disagree that a forum can't have a reputation. A forum is no different to a club, whether that's a dance club or a cacti growing club. Clubs will always have a reputation based upon it's members / mods / management
    Yes, I have to agree with this.. the point I was making was the same as you really, in that, it can't be the actual 'forum' as in the software..

    so it has to be the members or the moderators

    In the case of this forum, my own personal observations (and I have lurked in the past too so this is not just based in this thread) are that you have some particularly vocal members who often come across as being aggressive.
    I also agree with this

    a pack mentality ~snip~ Would be so nice if people could think for themselves.
    and this

    How could you improve it? Not sure I know the answer to that, but it would go someway to helping I think if the arsey / aggressive ones could be brought into line, publicly by a mod when things start to get heavy or way off-topic.
    And this is 'the tricky bit'

    FWIW I am a mod on another forum (unrelated) - we have a couple of gobby ones who have had the potential to scare off noobs, it's only after a carefully chosen word on forum, and by pm if required, that things have been smoothed over. There is a difference between free speech, and potential bullying - and when the whole pack mentality thing kicks in that is what you get.
    I know it might not seem like it sometimes but we do do this, a fair bit.. maybe not enough though?

    Lory asked, and I answered.
    Thank you, I appreciate it!

    I think the time has come to open another discussion, on another thread, on what the forum members feel is the right and fair level of moderation.

    Just as a general note, we took the decision to 'under moderate' during all the recent developments with Southport etc as we didn't want to be accused of 'hiding stuff' or being biased but I think the time is right to get some order back again now!
    MODERATOR AT YOUR SERVICE
    "If you're going to do something tonight, that you know you'll be sorry for in the morning, plan a lie in." Lorraine

  4. #4
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Here.
    Posts
    60
    Rep Power
    8

    Re: Banned from Ceroc nationally, time to say goodbye

    Quote Originally Posted by Lory View Post
    I know it might not seem like it sometimes but we do do this, a fair bit.. maybe not enough though?

    IMO you need to do it more. There is a difference between hiding information, and putting a stop to bullying.

    There will always be an element of self-moderation, in that the "normal" members will bring things back into line between them. But the Mods need to be prepared to step in if that fails, or doesn't happen. I know you can't be on all threads at any one time, but IME it's usually pretty easy to pick up on the ones where things are looking like they may get out of hand.

    Of course there's always the option of people using the "report" button but that rarely happens where I mod, suspect it's the same here.

  5. #5
    Registered User stewart38's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Ambrosden it gets
    Posts
    7,480
    Rep Power
    13

    Re: Banned from Ceroc nationally, time to say goodbye

    Quote Originally Posted by swp View Post
    IMO you need to do it more. There is a difference between hiding information, and putting a stop to bullying.

    Maybe for another thread but

    I’m on another forum that’s so heavily police there is no ‘debate’

    If you have lurked in the past ,can you show us examples of bulling please ?

  6. #6
    Formerly known as DavidJames David Bailey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Norf Lundin
    Posts
    17,001
    Blog Entries
    1
    Rep Power
    18

    Re: Banned from Ceroc nationally, time to say goodbye

    Quote Originally Posted by swp View Post
    IMO you need to do it more. There is a difference between hiding information, and putting a stop to bullying.
    Yes, it's a fine line. But if you crack the whip too hard, you get accused of Nazi-dom.

    I do very much understand your position - you feel that you've been jumped-on by a lot of established names. And I sympathise, it can be quite upsetting to receive this level of treatment.

    But honestly, I don't think you can use your treatment in this thread as an example of poor moderation - you have to admit you've been quite provocative, so it's not unreasonable that some people have reacted to this. And as the discussion is in the Private Lounge (members-only section), this isn't visible to casual viewers or bots.

    However, if you want to start a "Moderation level" thread, I'd be happy to continue discussions on that.

    Or, there are existing threads - for example:
    - http://www.cerocscotland.com/forum/f...ring-mods.html
    - http://www.cerocscotland.com/forum/f...red-cards.html

  7. #7
    Commercial Operator
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Hastings
    Posts
    4,386
    Blog Entries
    2
    Rep Power
    10

    Re: Banned from Ceroc nationally, time to say goodbye

    Quote Originally Posted by swp View Post
    IMO you need to do it more. There is a difference between hiding information, and putting a stop to bullying.

    IMO the modding on here seems pretty fair. There have been some decisions I have not agreed with but such is life.

    For example, I once got an infraction for writing Boll**ks (with the asterisk) yet it seems OK to write b0llocks

    It's a strange world but it would be boring if there was certainty

  8. #8
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    2,795
    Rep Power
    10

    Re: Banned from Ceroc nationally, time to say goodbye

    Right oh I am up to pace now.

    basically it is all David bailey's fault, right. So at breaktime, non of us, and I mean non of us. Talk to him in the playground.

    Are we all clear on this? Anyone caught talking to him, will have a Chinese burn of S38.

    Ok no one tell the prefects ok.

  9. #9
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Here.
    Posts
    60
    Rep Power
    8

    Re: Banned from Ceroc nationally, time to say goodbye

    Quote Originally Posted by stewart38 View Post
    Maybe for another thread but

    I’m on another forum that’s so heavily police there is no ‘debate’
    It is a fine line. But if the "bullies" aren't brought into line you'll struggle to get a decent debate where everyone feels they can contribute.

    Quote Originally Posted by stewart38 View Post
    If you have lurked in the past ,can you show us examples of bulling please ?
    You and I both know that you don't need me to do that. I'm not biting. Sorry.

  10. #10
    Forum Bombshell - Our Queen! Lory's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    North London
    Posts
    9,918
    Blog Entries
    2
    Rep Power
    17

    Re: Banned from Ceroc nationally, time to say goodbye

    Quote Originally Posted by swp View Post
    But the Mods need to be prepared to step in if that fails, or doesn't happen. I know you can't be on all threads at any one time, but IME it's usually pretty easy to pick up on the ones where things are looking like they may get out of hand.
    I personally have difficulties deciding at what point we should step in, when its not been asked for..

    I know some of our members are quite capable of (and enjoy ) heavy debate and the right to answer for themselves!

    Others, who struggle, need to use the REPORT BUTTON more! We've all got different levels of where we feel comfortable but passed that and we're out of our depth and need help.... we're not mind readers!


    Of course there's always the option of people using the "report" button but that rarely happens where I mod, suspect it's the same here.
    I tend to find it doesn't get used enough by the 'right people', its usually the people who're fastest to jump into the ring, all guns blazing, are always the first people on the report button too!
    MODERATOR AT YOUR SERVICE
    "If you're going to do something tonight, that you know you'll be sorry for in the morning, plan a lie in." Lorraine

  11. #11
    Papa Smurf
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Planet Scathe
    Posts
    12,528
    Blog Entries
    6
    Rep Power
    18

    Re: Banned from Ceroc nationally, time to say goodbye

    Quote Originally Posted by swp View Post
    You and I both know that you don't need me to do that. I'm not biting. Sorry.
    I've never noticed anything i would call bullying either. Are you sure you never imagined it ?

  12. #12
    Formerly known as DavidJames David Bailey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Norf Lundin
    Posts
    17,001
    Blog Entries
    1
    Rep Power
    18

    Re: Discussion about moderation

    OK, I've moved the OT posts into here, and attached a poll, as I feel it's worth a debate about general moderation levels, and feedback is always useful.

    I've got a few general observations for my own part, mainly about forum culture:

    Real-world identity: Unlike some other internet discussion forums, CS forumites often know, interact with, and dance with, each other - so there's a strong overlap between forum posts and the real world. So we tend to be less accepting as a group of people's right to anonymity - more so than other forums, I believe. And there's a much weaker "right to privacy" ethos in the group than in other forums.

    Plants: historically, we've had a few notorious plants come along - people trying to disguise their identities, create duplicate memberships, use aliases and so on. So, again, anyone who bursts onto the scene with a contentious series of posts is likely to arouse suspicion, rightly or wrongly.

    Cliques: Again, because of the way a lot of us interact in the Real World, you find these groupings ("cliques" to outsiders, "friends" to insiders) map onto the forum, possibly more so than in other forums.

    All of these factors provide some "interesting" challenges for people trying to keep this forum simultaneously interesting, courteous, free-speaking and active. Like in all areas, the moderating team make mistakes, but we genuinely work hard to try to achieve these goals; we don't have any ulterior motives beyond that.

    However, I think it's good to debate how we do these things, and I'd like to hear any suggestions and contributions and thoughts from other members about this area.

  13. #13
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Gold Coast, Austra
    Posts
    2,345
    Rep Power
    11

    Re: Discussion about moderation

    With too much moderation you no longer have a forum...

    What you end up with is fluffy bunny stuff, and nothing else and then the forum dies (as has happened with another forum I was a contributor to)

  14. #14
    The Dashing Moderator
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Midlands
    Posts
    3,556
    Rep Power
    12

    Re: Discussion about moderation

    Quote Originally Posted by David Bailey View Post
    So, again, anyone who bursts onto the scene with a contentious series of posts is likely to arouse suspicion, rightly or wrongly.
    I can see why people, especially if they've been viewing for some time without posting, may suddenly register if they see a post they have a particularly strong view on.

    I know it's been posted before, but it's a version of this:
    Love dance, will travel

  15. #15
    Formerly known as DavidJames David Bailey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Norf Lundin
    Posts
    17,001
    Blog Entries
    1
    Rep Power
    18

    Re: Discussion about moderation

    To which I can only re-reply:





    In fact, I reckon those two images should be at the start of every thread...

  16. #16
    Commercial Operator StokeBloke's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Stoke-on-Trent
    Posts
    2,366
    Rep Power
    10

    Cool Re: Discussion about moderation

    What'd happen if the moderators started fighting with each other. In other words, who Bailey's the Baileys!

  17. #17
    Formerly known as DavidJames David Bailey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Norf Lundin
    Posts
    17,001
    Blog Entries
    1
    Rep Power
    18

    Re: Discussion about moderation

    Quote Originally Posted by StokeBloke View Post
    What'd happen if the moderators started fighting with each other. In other words, who Bailey's the Baileys!
    We do have discussions, you know - lots of them. Sometimes we have a thread of 20+ posts, discussing actions to take over a single post Of course, I win all the arguments.

    In addition, most of the actions we take are audited, and are usually on the basis of member requests or reported posts (which is why we always encourage members to use the report post button, that's what it's there for).

    So there's often a lot going on behind the scenes before we take actions, especially controversial or significant ones.

  18. #18
    Registered User John S's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Deepest, Darkest Fife
    Posts
    1,182
    Rep Power
    12

    Re: Discussion about moderation

    (Long, rambling post follows - if short of time, jump to final paragraph!)

    I have been a member of this forum almost since its inception, when it really was populated only by a smallish group of Ceroc dancers in Scotland. Gradually, through the forum we got to associate virtual identities with dancers we met at dance parties in Scotland, and before long nearly everyone on the forum knew nearly everyone else in what David calls the "real" world (Knew them? Heavens, dear reader, we got up close and personal with them!) I am convinced the existence of the forum helped pull together the Ceroc community in Scotland.

    Right from the start, when I think he did most of the moderating himself, Franck set the spirit of the forum by allowing a pretty open debate on most topics, and I think it was this openness and willingness to use Ceroc's own software to actually criticise Ceroc that fuelled its success - and probably appealed to MJ dancers from non-Ceroc clubs. That required a very light touch on moderation, and probably at times Franck would have dearly loved to stifle debate on some issues - it is to his credit that he chose not to.

    And so, before long the "Ceroc Scotland" forum seemed to become the de facto place where anything and everything associated with MJ could be discussed freely. There must be other forums (fora?) but I don't think any has the same range of topics or spread of membership - correct me if I'm wrong.

    But in becoming "international", the forum has somewhat lost its Scottish local identity, and personally I think that's a pity, as any "local" news gets swamped by the rest. I know that I am not particularly interested in 80-90% of the threads just by reading the title, and I think there should be a place for having specific "geographical" sections of the forum - but I do know how difficult that would be to set up and administer, and probably the time for doing so has passed.

    I also think there is a danger that the numbers actually contributing to the forum will dwindle in direct relation to the intensity of posting from those who do contribute, particularly if there is no direct relevance to the reader in any slanging match (anyone got statistics on what percentage of members have actually posted - or lurked - within the last year, I suspect it's quite low?). Again, I think more local involvement would help there, and because people are more likely to know each other in the "real" world hopefully they would be "nicer" - but maybe that's a pious hope!

    But I suppose in its "international" incarnation the forum is staying true to its origins, just the net is spread a bit wider. Now Toodlepop from Tooting can meet up with Candyfloss from Carlisle at anywhere from Plymouth to Peterhead and they will already know something about each other from interacting on the forum - so the "real" and "forum" words become conflated, friendships are formed, and occasionally enemies are made too!

    Probably none of us outside the moderators' circle knows exactly how tough or lax they really are, because I suspect there is a lot of "moderating" work done which never reaches public cyberspace. So, unless we are being really naughty boys and girls we don't encounter them much - we know they are there, (we might wonder how they got there and what hyper-inflated salaries they earn for lurking on our debates), but by and large they are, and should be, similar to a colour scheme or mood lighting in a room - they set and maintain the tone, but what goes on in the room is the responsibility of its occupants.

    The moderators' job is to facilitate honest and fair debate, NOT to stifle it. On balance, members' freedom of expression should be preferred to moderators' repression. In football terminology, the referee should play "advantage" wherever possible and allow the debate to flow freely, then deal with any miscreant separately. Often this will call for individual or collective moderators' judgment - and sometimes the judgment will differ from that of an individual or group who feels offended or hard done by. Well frankly, as in a football match with a dodgy referee's decision, tough - get over it!

    To sum up this long and somewhat rambling post (you can tell I didn't fancy what's on TV) I think the forum is fine as it is, the moderators are doing a grand (and usually thankless) job and from my perspective at least I don't think any change in the moderating standards is necessary.

    (Can I now have oh, about a million, brownie points from the moderators - come on, I know you're out there watching!!!)

  19. #19
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    bedford
    Posts
    4,899
    Rep Power
    13

    Re: Banned from Ceroc nationally, time to say goodbye

    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadful Scathe View Post
    I've never noticed anything i would call bullying either. Are you sure you never imagined it ?
    FWIW I thought the treatment of SWP might be classed as bullying before anybody else used that word.

  20. #20
    Papa Smurf
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Planet Scathe
    Posts
    12,528
    Blog Entries
    6
    Rep Power
    18

    Re: Banned from Ceroc nationally, time to say goodbye

    Quote Originally Posted by bigdjiver View Post
    FWIW I thought the treatment of SWP might be classed as bullying before anybody else used that word.
    Really ? What about it was bullying ? If SWP had not responded to the queries of her sudden manner of posting, the conversation would have ended there - and i notice the most robust arguing comes from SWP. Bullying ? I think you need to witness real bullying

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. [ SPOILER THREAD ] Deathly hallows discussion.
    By Beowulf in forum Ceroc Scotland Book Club
    Replies: 43
    Last Post: 16th-August-2007, 09:32 PM
  2. Moderation levels.
    By Cruella in forum Forum technical problems / Questions / Suggestions..
    Replies: 125
    Last Post: 11th-April-2007, 05:01 PM
  3. Group on-line discussion - IM?
    By Feelingpink in forum Geeks' Corner
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 20th-December-2006, 03:49 PM

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •