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Thread: Create a similar product - or distroy the competition

  1. #21
    Registered User stewart38's Avatar
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    Re: Create a similar product - or destroy the competition

    Quote Originally Posted by martingold View Post
    If you as it seems have no opinion about this all you are doing is stirring up wounds that have been done to death on this forum

    I hate to be the bearer of bad news but
    THIS IS NOT REAL LIFE
    most on here come for a bit of bs and maybe find information that is real

    Sorry if i seem angry about this its just that a very close friend of mine at cerocmetro and member of this forum had a serious accident on wed night and tbh this thread just perpetuates wounds that really dont matter to the majority of dancers or people

    What is REAL LIFE ?

    If I go to 6/7 weekenders a year that’s 20 odd days of real life throw in dance holidays and other bits and pieces isn’t that real life?

    Being on here is REAL LIFE its not pretend life. You may say ‘GET A LIFE’ but that’s different.

    The thread as I read it was , create a similar product or destroy the competition im not sure how that relates to opening up ‘old wounds’

    I do agree that it would be useful to have a thread that removes all the ‘emotional stuff’ and could look at it in terms of business and what is best and look at other examples in business life

    Of course ‘emotional stuff’ can effect a business so it’s not always easy to split the two

  2. #22
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    Re: Create a similar product - or distroy the competition

    It does amaze me that anyone is offended by my post here.

    I have posted threads where I have put one view point across, and been told, I have not seen it from both sides.

    I have now posted a thread where I have seen it from both sides and am told, how boring, what can we pick you up on.

    I have also had one person telling me I am stirring stuff up.

    What I have done, is given over my opinion. I have done this in a non-emotional way, with respect to all involved.

  3. #23
    Registered User stewart38's Avatar
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    Re: Create a similar product - or distroy the competition

    Quote Originally Posted by Martin View Post
    It does amaze me that anyone is offended by my post here.

    I have posted threads where I have put one view point across, and been told, I have not seen it from both sides.

    I have now posted a thread where I have seen it from both sides and am told, how boring, what can we pick you up on.

    I have also had one person telling me I am stirring stuff up.

    What I have done, is given over my opinion. I have done this in a non-emotional way, with respect to all involved.

    Here have a hanky

    Getting back on the thread can distroying the competition ever be a bad thing (removing the emotional side)

    If X group was the only weekender what harm to X group ?

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    Dickie Davies' love-child Cruella's Avatar
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    Re: Create a similar product - or distroy the competition

    Quote Originally Posted by stewart38 View Post
    Here have a hanky

    Getting back on the thread can distroying the competition ever be a bad thing (removing the emotional side)

    If X group was the only weekender what harm to X group ?
    I don't think it is possible to remove the emotional side. Even if the two companies were unemotional about it, you would still have some of the customers that would be. This in turn might affect whether it was a good or bad business decision. It's no good destroying the competition if it means you upset the customers by doing so. The best way to put the other company out of business is by offering a better product and building up your reputation so the customers choose to use your product, rather than being forced to use it because you have destroyed the other company in one move.

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    Re: Create a similar product - or distroy the competition

    Quote Originally Posted by stewart38 View Post
    Here have a hanky



    Quote Originally Posted by stewart38 View Post
    Getting back on the thread can distroying the competition ever be a bad thing (removing the emotional side)

    If X group was the only weekender what harm to X group ?
    Very good point, for group X, if there is a market for the product and they are the only suplier, then it has to be a good thing for group X.

    The temptation after a while, if you are the only suplier, is to keep the product the same, keep the money flowing in and stick to the fomula.

    For the progression of the product, competition is a good thing for the consumer, as it raises the standards and brings new innovations as each company finds "extras" they can offer to gain market share.

  6. #26
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    Re: Create a similar product - or distroy the competition

    Quote Originally Posted by Cruella View Post
    I don't think it is possible to remove the emotional side. Even if the two companies were unemotional about it, you would still have some of the customers that would be. This in turn might affect whether it was a good or bad business decision. It's no good destroying the competition if it means you upset the customers by doing so. The best way to put the other company out of business is by offering a better product and building up your reputation so the customers choose to use your product, rather than being forced to use it because you have destroyed the other company in one move.
    good luck getting Rocky to agree to that one

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    Dickie Davies' love-child Cruella's Avatar
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    Re: Create a similar product - or distroy the competition

    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadful Scathe View Post
    good luck getting Rocky to agree to that one
    Who?

  8. #28
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    Re: Create a similar product - or distroy the competition

    Quote Originally Posted by Cruella View Post
    Who?
    You'll find all the info on Rocky here. I'll quote the best bits from the nice ladies review (she carefully considered for some time).


    Rocky ... who is ... a hip and cool figure for the kids of today
    Rocky ... who looks a bit like a pimp from an eighties American cop show.
    The one thing that does put me off ... slightly is that ... fat ... it ... doesn't seem worth it for what it is.
    There are much more tempting treats out there
    Quite damning really

  9. #29
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    Re: Create a similar product - or distroy the competition

    Quote Originally Posted by Martin View Post
    Very good point, for group X, if there is a market for the product and they are the only suplier, then it has to be a good thing for group X.

    The temptation after a while, if you are the only suplier, is to keep the product the same, keep the money flowing in and stick to the fomula.

    For the progression of the product, competition is a good thing for the consumer, as it raises the standards and brings new innovations as each company finds "extras" they can offer to gain market share.
    The ultimate form of competition is war. Competition is not always a good thing. Sometimes there are only enough consumers to support one supplier. Sometimes the management can run their business at peak efficiency without the spur of competition. Due to economies of scale sometimes management can only run their business at peak efficiency if there is no competition.

    Competition means you run your events head-to-head and let the consumer choose. In the dance world this means the consumer gets the choice of two or three diluted events one time, and no events at all another.

  10. #30
    Registered User Lynn's Avatar
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    Re: Create a similar product - or distroy the competition

    Quote Originally Posted by bigdjiver View Post
    Competition means you run your events head-to-head and let the consumer choose. In the dance world this means the consumer gets the choice of two or three diluted events one time, and no events at all another.
    Sorry, but I don't agree that it means you have to run your events head to head. I know some events will clash - there are only so many available weekends and venues have to be booked in advance etc - but actually choosing to run events head to head isn't good competitive practice.

    Competition means being the best you can be. In the dance world that means working hard to put on good events that people want to go to.

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    Re: Create a similar product - or distroy the competition

    relevant even down at this level:
    ... Even in the dog-eat-dog financial markets, trust and integrity are matters of self-interest. However amoral you may be, it is in your interest to care about your reputation, because if you behave badly you will not do business with me - or others - on favourable terms again...
    Will Hutton: I've watched the economy for 30 years. Now I'm truly scared | Comment is free | The Observer

  12. #32
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    Re: Create a similar product - or distroy the competition

    You read my mind, I was going to quote that! Well actually these bits,
    What we are relearning is that without trust and fairness, capitalism risks its own sustainability, even while it unleashes forces that undermine those self-same values. London's money markets froze because of a trust collapse; banks simply don't believe each other when they say their businesses are sound and will not default on their obligations. Trust matters.
    They don't need to be concerned about their reputations; they just need one deal or one year at the top and they need never work again. The incentive structure has so departed from one of the principal norms of fairness - proportionality between value added and reward - that it has eviscerated trust relationships and integrity.

  13. #33
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    Re: Create a similar product - or distroy the competition

    I don't know why we are talking about 'destroying' the business opposition. As far as I know JA are still alive and kicking.

    What has happened is JA lost a venue and Ceroc took it over. Hardly earth shattering. Sure, a lot of dancers who feel hard done by have complained very loudly, and a sizeable majority of them seem to be on this forum but really, in all my dancing since, only one other person has talked to me about it, and they are a forumite anyway.

    While we're on the subject, why is this a business issue anyway ?
    Francos loss of dates and venue at Camber was an almost identical move by Ceroc, and it was well covered on this forum, yet those complaining loudly about Southport barely blinked.
    So it's not the business issue itself that people have a problem with, it's the loss of a favoured venue that's upset people. (Fair enough of course).
    To claim a business decision that was completely legal, normal business practise, and was so unspecial it didn't even rate a mention when it happened to Franco is now tarring Ceroc with the League of Evil brush is somewhat doomed to failure I feel.

  14. #34
    Registered User Lynn's Avatar
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    Re: Create a similar product - or distroy the competition

    Quote Originally Posted by TA Guy View Post
    Sure, a lot of dancers who feel hard done by have complained very loudly, and a sizeable majority of them seem to be on this forum but really, in all my dancing since, only one other person has talked to me about it, and they are a forumite anyway.
    I really think the whole 'this forum is where its all at' attitude can be overplayed. I know we like to think our opinions are important, they may reflect a 'current climate' (whatever that is at the time) and I'm sure there are those who read with interest, without posting, but its still a pretty small, if vocal, corner of the MJ community.

    A lot of people who have mentioned the recent events to me have not been on the forum, in fact many have never even heard of the forum. Some hadn't really even heard of Jive Addiction or stopped to think of Ceroc as 'an organisation' prior to this. (They have raised the subject with me because they know I went to Southport for dance events.) I was even asked about it by someone I bumped into in a petrol station last night - and the person doesn't even do MJ!

  15. #35
    Commercial Operator Sugarfoot's Avatar
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    Re: Create a similar product - or distroy the competition

    Quote Originally Posted by TA Guy View Post
    I don't know why we are talking about 'destroying' the business opposition. As far as I know JA are still alive and kicking.
    Not for the want of trying though. Do you really think that all Ceroc wanted was the venue??? If that was the case...why the big kick up when JA announced Eclipse???

    Quote Originally Posted by TA Guy View Post
    What has happened is JA lost a venue and Ceroc took it over. Hardly earth shattering.
    Depends on who you are. J/A certainly felt a bit of a quake and had to act fast.

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    Dickie Davies' love-child Cruella's Avatar
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    Re: Create a similar product - or distroy the competition

    Quote Originally Posted by TA Guy View Post
    What has happened is JA lost a venue and Ceroc took it over. Hardly earth shattering.
    I could see your point if JA had lost the venue before ceroc had negotiations with Pontins about the Southport venue. But unless I'm incorrect I don't think that is so.

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    Re: Create a similar product - or distroy the competition

    Quote Originally Posted by Cruella View Post
    I could see your point if JA had lost the venue before ceroc had negotiations with Pontins about the Southport venue. But unless I'm incorrect I don't think that is so.
    no one has ever stated that it is so we have no reason to believe that's true. TA Guy is trying to play down the issue for some reason. As for Camber being a similar situation that no one bothered about, I was not even aware that had happened - so certainly its not something i could have complained about. And just because there are less complaints it doesnt follow that it's "not the business issue itself that people have a problem with" thats TA Guys own assumption. (and a silly assumption at that - if it were true then people would have no qualms about booking with Ceroc at the same venue)
    Last edited by Dreadful Scathe; 30th-September-2008 at 02:18 PM.

  18. #38
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    Re: Create a similar product - or distroy the competition

    Quote Originally Posted by TA Guy View Post
    What has happened is JA lost a venue and Ceroc took it over. Hardly earth shattering. Sure, a lot of dancers who feel hard done by have complained very loudly, and a sizeable majority of them seem to be on this forum
    You didn't see Facebook, then?

    Before it was removed (allegedly due to a complaint by Ceroc), the "Ceroc'd Off" group had gathered over 500 members - and that was in less than 3 weeks. Plenty of them weren't from around here....

    Quote Originally Posted by TA Guy View Post
    Francos loss of dates and venue at Camber was an almost identical move by Ceroc, and it was well covered on this forum, yet those complaining loudly about Southport barely blinked.
    Blimey! Sounds like hyperbole to me. Or have you actually taken statements from everyone who has complained about Southport to find out where they were for Cambergate?

    Quote Originally Posted by TA Guy View Post
    tarring Ceroc with the League of Evil brush is somewhat doomed to failure I feel.
    Do they have a fluffy white cat?

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