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Thread: Parking charge notices- help needed

  1. #1
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    Parking charge notices- help needed

    I have had a bad day and to top it off I have just received my first 'Notice to Owner' parking penalty fine .

    I was parked in a car park (altho it didn't look much like a car park) in the evening to go to a salsa workshop with Lillian and Darren, which was excellent. I did not see any paying machines as otherwise I would have paid the £1.80 and not had this hassle.

    I can understand that I did not pay the fee, but annoyed that it was not made obvious as I did check. Anyway, I know that I cannot challenge this (altho I will be highlighting this to them aswell!) but what I am questioning and looking for guidance on is this...

    The 'notice to owner' form says that because I have not paid the early Penalty Charge Notice (PCN) of £25, it has now gone up to £50 and then £75 if I do not pay that within 28days. I never received a PCN, not on my window or through the post - otherwise I would have paid it!.
    This fine is for the 15th August, 1.5 months ago.
    I have read the 'Civil Enforcement of Parking Contraventions General Regulations 2007 but cannot make head nor tale of it . I may just have to pay £25 (as I am defintly not paying £50 as this is my first notice!) but have I got any rights in that they have only just told me about this for the first time after 1.5 months, instead of the 28days which I thought they had to.

    Any guidance would be greatlyfully received as I am going to ring them tommorrow and want to know my rights before I do so.

    Many thanks from a fed up Ellen

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    Re: Parking charge notices- help needed

    Hi Ellen, big bug bear of mine, this whole private parking scam! I paid £15,000 each for two spaces in the car park beneath my flat in London, yet if I park there without a permit, I get issued with a £75 'Penalty Charge Notice'! Needless to say, I don't pay it and get bombarded with all sorts of threats from the issuing company, their solicitors and their imaginary debt recovery companies, but nothing ever happens. I have a collection of over 400 letters from them now.

    The main thing to be aware of is that these tickets have no basis in law, despite the fact that they are designed to look like the normal tickets issued by local authority appointed parking attendants. They even call them something like 'Parking Charge Notices', generally abreviated to PCN, to mimic official PCNs, or 'Penalty Charge Notices' issued by parking attendants. They rely on forming a contract with you and that's pretty hard to prove. Their letters will imply that the registered keeper of the car is responsible for either paying the ticket, which is not the case, or for informing them of who was driving, which is definitely not the case, as this can only be enforced by the police or the courts under section 172 of the road traffic act.

    As I mentioned earlier, these companies rely on the implication that they have formed a contract with you i.e. There will be a sign somewhere saying something along the lines of "If you don't pay the parking fee of £1.80, you agree, instead, to pay a penalty fee of £25". They would struggle to prove this as a contract in court, as there must be three stages - An invitation to treat (For example, a car in a showroom with a price on it), An offer (You telling the salesman how much you want to pay for it) and an acceptance (The salesman agreeing the price with you). If you drive into a car park and take a ticket at a barrier, which then rises, allowing you to drive in, you have effectively fulfilled the contract process, but just parking in an open car park does not seal a contract. In addition, any contract could only be formed with the driver of the car, and that may not necessarily be the registered keeper, so to send an enforcement notice through to the RK demanding payment is just nonsense.

    The main thing to remember here is that all they are sending you right now are demands and threats. They mean nothing. You will initially receive a bundle of letters from them demanding increased payments. These will be followed by letters from a solicitor threatening court action if you don't pay and finally you will receive letters from a debt collection agency, telling you how badly a CCJ will affect your ability to obtain credit in the future. Essentially they are relying on scare tactics to frighten you into paying.

    You have a few choices here -

    1. You can pay it and they will go away. I definitely wouldn't recommend this as a) It costs you money and b) The more they get away with it, the more they will do it!

    2. You can ignore them. This is what I do now, having spent many hours on the phone arguing in circles with them.

    3. You could send them a letter acknowledging their letter to you, the registered keeper of the car, advising them that any contract and, therefore, any penalty would be with the driver of the car and not the registered keeper, so they should contact the driver instead.

    Obviously how you deal with this is completely up to you, but before you do anything, I would suggest having a look through the parking forums on the Consumer Action Group. There's a lot of good advice in there. The great thing about the Internet is that you can get help with pretty much anything these days, so don't worry about it and please, please please don't give these conmen your money!! Good luck and let us know how you get on

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    Re: Parking charge notices- help needed

    Quote Originally Posted by Filthy Monkey View Post
    The main thing to be aware of is that these tickets have no basis in law ...
    The "Civil Enforcement of Parking Contraventions General Regulations 2007" (pdf) suggest that they do.

    However, it looks like if you never received the first notice, then you should be clear. Talk to a lawyer or citizen's advice bureau.

    Did their notice say it was "a record produced by an approved device" or a "civil enforcement officer" that determined you were parked without paying?
    Let your mind go and your body will follow. – Steve Martin, LA Story

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    Re: Parking charge notices- help needed

    Ducasi, from the information Ellen has posted, it sounds like the ticket was issued by a private company, rather than a local authority, which means that this document would not apply. It only applies to the civil enforcement of tickets issued by local authorities on public roads.

    Ellen, can you send me a pm with details of the company that issued the ticket?

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    Re: Parking charge notices- help needed

    Hi FM thanks soo much for your help on this.
    I have been abit stupid and didn't specify that it was actually Swindon Borough Council. Does this change everything?! As I still can't understand that they can get away with issuing me the £50 fine without the initial PCN and especially after 1.5 months???!

    (Really sorry if I wasted your time)

    ellen

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    Re: Parking charge notices- help needed

    Hi Ducasi
    In answer to your questions - the forms says
    "In respect of the PCN no. ........ was served on 15/08/08 by civil enforcement officer 28 who had reason to believed that the following contravention has occurred and that a penatly charge is payble. - parking in a carpark without displaying a ticket.

    I did not display a ticket which i suppose is fair enough. But have not received the original notification, nor does the comp system acknowledge my PCN no.

    Plus it says that I have been served with a PCN and did not pay within the 14days.


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    Re: Parking charge notices- help needed

    Well, I stand thoroughly corrected!!

    It does change everything, but it does still leave you with options. I would highly recommend getting yourself over to the aprking section of the Consumer Action Group forums and posting on there. There is a wealth of information to guide you through the minefield of parking regulations, which are by no means black and white, and the people are very helpful. Good luck

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    Cool Re: Parking charge notices- help needed

    If this is a ticket that's been issued for parking on private property, rather than on the highway then as FM says it is very different. Private parking tickets are merely 'notices' or 'invoices' requesting a payment.

    The "pay up or it's doubled" demand is to scare you into coughing up. There's a whole raft of reasons why you may not be liable to pay. From incorrect wording on the actual ticket (which you say wasn't issued), to incorrect/missing signage.

    There's plenty of hope for you before you have to hand over your dancing pounds for an unjust parking fine

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    Re: Parking charge notices- help needed

    Im sorry .
    Thanks alot for your help though, have just registered on that forum so fingers crossed.
    My sister had a problem with another private parking firm and she ended up paying the money so atleast I know from now on that this does not have to be the case. Really does annoy me that 1) prviate companies can get away with bully tactics and 2)we stupidly paid the fine!

    Many thanks
    Ellen

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    Re: Parking charge notices- help needed

    Thanks SB - (have tried to say thanks using the icon thing but tis not working!)
    Im hoping your right, as can't go without dancing will just have to go without food instead!

    ellen

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    Re: Parking charge notices- help needed

    Hmm... The way I read it, although they're mean to serve notice within 28 days, they are allowed a delay of up to 14 days before that 28 days starts, to give them time to find out who you are.

    However, the only reason they should contact you by post in the first place is if they were prevented from giving you (or attaching to your car) the original notice, or if the "offence" was detected by an "approved device".

    Do they have proof of the issuing of the PCN at the time of the offence? My cynical mind says they will have.
    Let your mind go and your body will follow. – Steve Martin, LA Story

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    Re: Parking charge notices- help needed

    Bad news - I just gave them a call and they have a picture of it being underneath my wipers, so unfortunately your cynicle mind is right .

    The lady said I can still put in representation as it was definitly not there. The only thing I can think of is that when we went back to the car, mine was the only one left in the open car park apart from a set of boy racers. Now im not one to judge but they may have taken it off as a joke, as i doubt from driving it woudl have come off as they usuall stick them on.

    I shall just have to see if this has any affect. A great start to my wkend!

    ellen

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