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Thread: Southport September 08 The Aftermath

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    Re: Southport September 08 The Aftermath

    Quote Originally Posted by jive-vee View Post
    Hiya Wuzzle, I think that might have been me. I didn't disappear though I was just constantly dancing, would've asked you but didn't see you around...next time
    Ahh well definately have to have a dance next time

  2. #42
    Registered User frodo's Avatar
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    Re: Southport September 08 The Aftermath

    Quote Originally Posted by David Bailey View Post
    Yes - JA have been moving towards WCS-centric events for a while now; I suspect this trend will probably continue with Skeglipse.

    Nothing wrong with that, of course, and hopefully it'll provide some clear blue water between them and Ceroc, but it does mean that you get less out of the experience if you're not a WCS fan.
    I think you're greatly overstating the case for WCS anything like dominating Jive Addiction 'Jive' weekenders.

    The extra WCS time, in the 4th room, I think primarily results from extending later into the night.


    The Blues Lounge may seem to have lots of WCS going on, but there isn't actually that many couples in terms of the size of the weekender doing WCS there.


    Tango only got 1 hour less of lesson time.

    Asided from the Modern Jive, 4* WCS class and 3 * Tango classes, you could try other partner dances:- Lambada, Lindy Hop, Balboa, Salsa, Waltz, Nightclub 2 Step, Cha Cha (download the schedule).


    Compare that to Ceroc's last Camber weekender, and the differentiation with Ceroc's English weekenders is clear.

    It isn't WCS specifically, but variety, and plenty of people who don't like WCS (or are put off by the reputation) like that variety.

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    Registered User FunkyAngel's Avatar
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    Re: Southport September 08 The Aftermath

    Quote Originally Posted by frodo View Post
    So not the (lose the will to live) uninterrupted WCS previously seen, but difficult to settle down to a different vibe. And blues/tango dancer have good reasons for being far more disturbed by a hard WCS track, than WCS dancers are by a bluesy track.
    Disturbed? Hey, some of us WCS dancers *prefer* blues. There was some lusciousmusic in the blues room Sat night just about the time my legs went on strike and I had to give up and go to bed (5am ish?).

    [rant mode on] Just because rythm-heavy modern R&B is easy to dance WCS to doesn't mean all WCS dancers like it - or want to hear it all night even if they do[rant mode off].

    Still too tired to post a proper report but the short version is that as usual Southport was amazing.

    FunkyAngel

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    Registered User DianaS's Avatar
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    Smile Re: Southport September 08 The Aftermath

    Quote Originally Posted by frodo View Post
    Assuming you are talking about Sunday night, I don't get this. WCS was scheduled at 23:30 after the Milonga.

    23:30 - 02:30 is 3 hours. It might have got extended but that is the potential benefit of being last, and isn't guaranteed. Would the Tango dancers really want the last slot ?

    .
    Speaking for myself tango dancers don't want a slot, they want some space. There was considerable time put aside for WCS, but minimal time put aside for tango within a milonga context.
    For me it was disappointing - but perhaps an indicator that I should move away from jive weekenders and move towards contexts where the focus is more on tango

    I'll miss my old friends from MJ but we can always catch up at freestyles

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    Formerly known as DavidJames David Bailey's Avatar
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    Re: Southport September 08 The Aftermath

    Quote Originally Posted by frodo View Post
    I think you're greatly overstating the case for WCS anything like dominating Jive Addiction 'Jive' weekenders.
    I didn't say "dominating", did I?

    But if you look at the headline acts, the ones that get all the publicity - photos on the front cover etc. - they've increasingly been the big WCS teachers from the USA, over the past 18 months or so. Those are the stars. Whereas, the last time there was a Tango Star Couple was Vincent & Flavia in Feb 2007.

    So there's more WCS music, more WCS lessons, and more WCS social dance time.

    Oh, and they're sponsoring the UK WCS Championships, but I can't see them sponsoring any AT championships. Perhaps I've missed them? If so, then by all means, please point them out to me.

    So, it seems quite clear that they're moving in this direction. Which, as I said, is absolutely fine with me, I've no problem with that, and it gives them a good USP.

    But it's silly to pretend this trend doesn't exist, when it obviously does.

    Quote Originally Posted by DianaS View Post
    For me it was disappointing - but perhaps an indicator that I should move away from jive weekenders and move towards contexts where the focus is more on tango
    Yes - unfortunately, I think that's the natural path to a point.

    Coming to Negracha next month?

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    Registered User frodo's Avatar
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    Re: Southport September 08 The Aftermath

    Quote Originally Posted by DianaS View Post
    Speaking for myself tango dancers don't want a slot, they want some space. There was considerable time put aside for WCS, but minimal time put aside for tango within a milonga context.
    Similarly an opinion, but I'd hate the space, rather than slot, where you have people turn up in dribs and drabs necessarily needing to bring a partner.

    A slot gets you a critical mass of Tango (or any other variety) of dancer in the same place at the same time, and somewhere for people to practice and/or watch to see what Tango is about.

  7. #47
    Registered User frodo's Avatar
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    Re: Southport September 08 The Aftermath

    Quote Originally Posted by David Bailey View Post
    I didn't say "dominating", did I?

    But if you look at the headline acts, the ones that get all the publicity - photos on the front cover etc. - they've increasingly been the big WCS teachers from the USA, over the past 18 months or so. Those are the stars. Whereas, the last time there was a Tango Star Couple was Vincent & Flavia in Feb 2007.

    So there's more WCS music, more WCS lessons, and more WCS social dance time.
    Much of the WCS teaching has been so much more obviously relevant to modern jive, than Tango teaching is, and there is a good supply of very high quality teachers, who speak good english.

    For example, Robert Royston's classes have an awful lot in them which Modern Jive dancers could take away. I didn't practice what I learnt in WCS but in Modern Jive.

    But it's silly to pretend this trend doesn't exist, when it obviously does.
    There is clearly more WCS than there was. That doesn't make it WCS centric. But perhaps that is best in another thread ?
    Last edited by frodo; 15th-September-2008 at 08:10 PM.

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    Re: Southport September 08 The Aftermath

    O damm!, Was southport this weekend, i knew i forgot somthing

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    Re: Southport September 08 The Aftermath

    Quote Originally Posted by Vegetable View Post
    O damm!, Was southport this weekend, i knew i forgot somthing

    Whoops did we forget to pick you up.

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    Re: Southport September 08 The Aftermath

    I'd like to thank all the forumites who looked after me over the weekend (I won't try to remember all the names as I'll most likely miss out someone important but you know who you are).

    Given it was my first ever weekender and I didn't know many people, you made a real difference, not just to the enjoyment I had but also to my dancing. Can't wait to see the fancy dress photos and to see you all soon in good old Skeggy, if not before.
    Suzie x

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    Cool Re: Southport September 08 The Aftermath

    Quote Originally Posted by David Bailey View Post
    So, it seems quite clear that they're moving in this direction. Which, as I said, is absolutely fine with me, I've no problem with that, and it gives them a good USP.

    But it's silly to pretend this trend doesn't exist, when it obviously does.
    With the greatest of respect I think you may be getting things bass ackwards David. JA are reacting to what the dancers are telling them that they want. They don't seem intent on 'forcing' WCS onto people. But if people want to dance WCS they're going to provide. For example, there was a problem with the growing number of Westies filling the blues room so they provided EXTRA space in the shape of the Dance Den. Now people who Tango have started to moan Just can't win with some poeple can they

    JA listen, they then react brilliantly to demand - that is the mark of innovation, as opposed to imitation

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    Re: Southport September 08 The Aftermath

    Quote Originally Posted by StokeBloke View Post
    Now people who Tango have started to moan Just can't win with some poeple can they
    What about a NC2 Step room?

  13. #53
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    Re: Southport September 08 The Aftermath

    With regards to the theme of the Southport weekender it is primarily a modern jive event, so I would expect that to be the main feature. As such I know before going what to expect. I was not unduely unhappy with the amount of tango, however as always if I want more, I can ask, may not get it but can ask.

    If I want a tango weekender then there are these to go to also, but I would be highly miffed if my tango weekend was being eaten into by too much MJ or WCS. So its kind of horses for courses.
    if you love the life you live then you'll get a lot more done

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    Re: Southport September 08 The Aftermath

    Quote Originally Posted by frodo View Post
    Much of the WCS teaching has been so much more obviously relevant to modern jive, than Tango teaching is, and there is a good supply of very high quality teachers, who speak good english.
    Sure, fair enough. Or American, at least

    I'm really not trying to say there should be more AT at JA events, neither am I trying to say that the move towards more WCS is a bad thing.

    The increased focus on WCS is clearly popular, and clearly it satisfies a market requirement, and it may help differentiate JA from Ceroc weekenders. All of that is fine - good even.

    It may well be that JA will become to WCS what Ceroc is to MJ. If so, good luck to them.

    Quote Originally Posted by frodo View Post
    There is clearly more WCS than there was. That doesn't make it WCS centric.
    It makes WCS the dominant non-MJ dance style taught - and if the headliners are all WCS, if the organisation is sponsoring a big WCS weekender, and if there's a lot of time and music specifically catering to WCS dancers, then it makes it moving towards a WCS-centric event.

    I didn't say it was WCS centric, I said, precisely:
    Quote Originally Posted by David Bailey View Post
    JA have been moving towards WCS-centric events for a while now
    So, there's a movement. It's not complete, but it's an obvious trend.

    But what winds me up is people who seem to insist, against all evidence to the contrary, that there's no such movement.

    Quote Originally Posted by frodo View Post
    But perhaps that is best in another thread ?
    No, I think this is relevant to discussion of SP / JA.

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    Re: Southport September 08 The Aftermath

    Quote Originally Posted by StokeBloke View Post
    With the greatest of respect
    Them's fighting words - I've seen Yes Minister you know.

    Quote Originally Posted by StokeBloke View Post
    I think you may be getting things bass ackwards David. JA are reacting to what the dancers are telling them that they want. They don't seem intent on 'forcing' WCS onto people. But if people want to dance WCS they're going to provide. For example, there was a problem with the growing number of Westies filling the blues room so they provided EXTRA space in the shape of the Dance Den.
    Yes, absolutely. That's the way I read it also. Why do you assume I read it differently? Am I writing in invisible ink or something?

    JA are reacting to a market demand, and good on them for doing so. How many more times do I have to repeat that before you understand it?

    Let me put it in bold for you:

    I'm not criticising JA, I'm applauding them, for reacting to market demand.


    Clear?

    Quote Originally Posted by StokeBloke View Post
    Now people who Tango have started to moan Just can't win with some poeple can they
    I'm not moaning about the trend to WCS dancing amongst Ja weekenders.

    I'm moaning - in fact I'm on the verge of getting seriously miffed - with the lack of understanding of what I'm flippin' writing. Here's a suggestion - read my words, for Chrissakes, before assuming I'm saying something which I'm patently not, OK?

    Quote Originally Posted by StokeBloke View Post
    JA listen, they then react brilliantly to demand - that is the mark of innovation, as opposed to imitation
    Yes, and I said that.

    Again, if you read my posts rather than just imagining what I'm saying, and projecting your own interpretations on it, you may have a chance of responding with some modicum of sense.

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    Cool Re: Southport September 08 The Aftermath

    Sincere apologies David for mis-understanding your comments. Although it was you I quoted I was also addressing some of the issues DianeS was complaining about.
    Quote Originally Posted by David Bailey View Post
    Again, if you read my posts rather than just imagining what I'm saying, and projecting your own interpretations on it, you may have a chance of responding with some modicum of sense.
    Don't expect too much DB, I don't make too much sense at the best of times let a lone when I have only had three hours sleep since Friday morning..



    This weekend I was able to see and experience Tango 'live' for the first time. It's not something that I have ever sought out in the past. I sat watching, mesmerised and now I am looking for lessons in the Midlands area. So.. thank you Wes and John for opening up yet MORE dance possibilities for me.

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    Re: Southport September 08 The Aftermath

    GOOD
    * Socially, was great fun as always. Lots of friendly faces & chalet entertainment.
    * Loved the cabarets
    * Some good music that I hadn't heard before - really liked the Liberty X accapella that Greg was playing.
    * A very welcome full english breakfast at 9 am on the Sunday. Tasty! Unlike some, I wasn't hardcore enough to go on to the line dancing class at 10 am though
    * Stokie sliding Smiley Sue across the length of the floor in the early hours of Saturday morning
    * Remembering to take on board lots of water with the, ahem, occasional beer
    * Free DVD of the June weekender handed out at breakfast time
    * Making a decision at the weekend to take a private with Paul Warden which gave me more enthusiasm and belief for the Sunday night dancing
    * Dancing my last dance of the weekend with Sparkles to the wonderful track 'Lost In You'

    BAD
    * On a dancing level I really felt uninspired and lacking in enthusiasm for much of the weekend which is really unusual for a Southport weekender. Can't pinpoint the reasons and I know it happens to everyone at some time but I got to the point of refusing dances on Fri night because I just wasn't enjoying it.
    * Couple of times in the Blues Lounge the music went a bit off the wall and not in a good way.
    * Despite not dancing anywhere near as much as usual on a Southport weekend my feet still hurt
    * Flooring in the Marquee (and Latin Quarter) too fast for comfort. Guess that's better than it being really sticky but still not ideal.

    UGLY
    * Muffin Top. DTS. Say no more

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    Re: Southport September 08 The Aftermath

    OK. More awake now.

    The Good.

    Everything.

    I could have spent this weekender just watching the dancers. Some amazing dancers there. Some I had never seen before. Was really impressed with Simon and Nicole's dancing. Never really watched them before. Great connection and style.

    The music was pretty much spot on for me. I don't think I spent any time in the main room at all which is a first for me. There was only one point I noticed where the music was a bit iffy and Spanish Guitar got played in the blues room. Twirly Bird got the DJ back on track though (Was Fletches fault for requesting something 'Up tempo' )

    Only done two workshops in the end. The Balboa which was interesting and Whips with Lazy Dave, who was on top form as ever.

    Enjoyed doing both sets during the day. Laptop died during Sats set. Sundays set seemed to go well.

    Fletch - Thanks for your support during my sets. Will teach you the heel slide at some point

    Ringo and Starr - Great to meet you both. Fab dancers

    Mr Darcy - Great dancer. Remember, the secret is flash lighting

    Easily Led, Lost leader - great couple. Sorry I missed your set Pete ( needed sleep) and things didn't go to plan on Sat, but glad you got on.

    DTS - You crack me up.

    Minnie - Saw just how much hard work goes in to that barbie.

    Helen B - Thanks for the help with Sunday set. Still think we should have played something iffy when Paul W asked what was next.

    CMS - Sleep Balboa.

    Straycat - Where was your hat? Still have not had time to explain to Claire who you are.

    Caro - Good job our "WCS" dance was not being judged or you would have been put back down to novice and I would have been told never to dance WCS again. Will try again when I have learnt some.

    And to everyone else inc, Steven666, Vegetable, Manburger (you know you want to, tell him Kyron), Stokie, Lynn (told you it was a cr@p song next ), Little Monkey and everyone I have missed in my tiredness.

    The Bad

    Nothing really. The only thing I would say is that maybe the daytime DJ slots need a re-think. By the time I was 5 mins in to the Sat set, I had 5 odd DJ's all insisting that they were going to go up next. Then on Sundays set, I didn't think anyone was coming and was running out of songs. Maybe a board is needed or scheduled DJ's during the day.

    Shame the outside floor got wet. Wasn't the same after.


    Not going to go on about what has happened with the politics. Just looking forward to Skeggy now.

  19. #59
    Registered User ant's Avatar
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    Re: Southport September 08 The Aftermath

    I walked into the Blues Room at 6:00 pm Friday to a set from Raphael and what I experienced summed up the weeked for me.

    Great music, brilliant dancers and a fantastic atmosphere.

    What else was good about the weekend? - almost every thing.

    - great chalet mates, Ruby Red and Susie
    - the music in the Blues Room was a much better mix for MJ and WCS
    - the Latin Room was even better than ever
    - far more funk and furious music in the Main Room
    - Sugarfoots music in the milongas which had an lovely refreshing air ( sorry to see your foot in plaster mate, hope it gets better soon)
    - lovely dances with Ruby Red, Fletch and Snow White and every other forumite I danced with. I can't think of one bad dance the whole weekend.
    -the weather

    What was bad

    -it was just to good after dancing for about 30 hours over the weekend my legs are shot to bits and my feet are absolutely pulverised.

    -Detoner and the crew from Exeter (our very nice next door neighbours) for not inviting Ruby Red and I to their party after our party had finished

    -the people who sold me my new dance shoes, they conned me. I was told the shoes I bought were the same as Viktors and I would be dancing like him. Alas that bit was unfortunately not true. It is always a wonder watching you dancing Viktor.

    and finally a very big thank you to John, Wes and The Cew for such a great weekend and to the ladies in the Crew for some fantastic dances

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    Re: Southport September 08 The Aftermath

    Sublime. No need to say more.

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