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Thread: Hotshots...

  1. #161
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    Originally posted by TheTramp
    I think the only thing I have to say to that is....

    Only one???

    Steve
    You better not monopolise all these good dancers tramp...

  2. #162
    Senior Member Minnie M's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Lounge Lizard
    Are you going to name this dancer Minnie?
    The Tramp definitely knows who he is (obviously likes him) - the clue was in the question marks - AND I have had THREE private emails from fellow forumites who know who I am talking about and totally agree what a "?????? : devil: he is - at least that made me feel a lot better - thank you ladies


    --ooOoo--
    Age is a question of mind over matter, if you don't mind, it doesn't matter
    Leroy (Satchel) Paige (1906-1982)

    Mickey Mouse's girlfriend, Minnie, made her film debut, along with Mickey, in "Steamboat Willie" on November 18, 1928.
    That date is recognized as her official birthday.

  3. #163
    Registered User ChrisA's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Minnie M
    I thought you looked cute

    PS: NOT found on th web site
    Where ja gettit then, Minnster?? Did you take it????

    All these dance events blur totally into one another... so I never remember who I saw where. I just know that I only wear blond wigs on the IOW

    Chris

  4. #164
    Senior Member Minnie M's Avatar
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    Originally posted by ChrisA
    Where ja gettit then, Minnster?? Did you take it????
    Chris
    ha ha and there are lots and lots more

    I bought their CD of the event , only a fiver and it has got vids of the cabarets too (all the shots Jules took during the weekend including all the jim-jam ones )


    --ooOoo--
    Age is a question of mind over matter, if you don't mind, it doesn't matter
    Leroy (Satchel) Paige (1906-1982)

    Mickey Mouse's girlfriend, Minnie, made her film debut, along with Mickey, in "Steamboat Willie" on November 18, 1928.
    That date is recognized as her official birthday.

  5. #165
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    Originally posted by Minnie M
    The Tramp definitely knows who he is (obviously likes him)
    I'm interested in how you came to the conclusion that I 'obviously like him' then Minnie.

    (I'm not saying whether I do, or don't you understand. Just interested in why you said that!).

    Steve

  6. #166
    Registered User ChrisA's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Minnie M
    ha ha and there are lots and lots more

    I bought their CD of the event , only a fiver and it has got vids of the cabarets too (all the shots Jules took during the weekend including all the jim-jam ones )
    Of course!!!!!!!!! Doh!!!!!

    I get more scared when Jules points that camera at me than I even do dancing with her... but she does a fab job at it.

    I must get a copy... I meant to ask Tor (a lovely dancer, incidentally) on Saturday but I forgot.

    Chris

  7. #167
    Registered User ChrisA's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Divissima
    Minnie M wrote: Steady, Minnie, the young and impressionable (aka Boomer) may be watching
    You mean I'm not impressionable???

    The Youngster

  8. #168
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    Originally posted by ChrisA
    You mean I'm not impressionable???
    Those winning tactics of yours definitely left an impression on my chest; a third degree rubber burn

  9. #169
    Senior Member Minnie M's Avatar
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    Showcase Hotshot

    Up to last week I had only received 2 private emails, but from this post alone I have had about 10 !

    Let the matter be closed now please, we have all guessed who it is and most are in agreement that this person is DEFINITELY a Hotshot on the dance floor, although he might be very nice off it.


    --ooOoo--
    Age is a question of mind over matter, if you don't mind, it doesn't matter
    Leroy (Satchel) Paige (1906-1982)

    Mickey Mouse's girlfriend, Minnie, made her film debut, along with Mickey, in "Steamboat Willie" on November 18, 1928.
    That date is recognized as her official birthday.

  10. #170
    Registered User Divissima's Avatar
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    ChrisA asked:
    You mean I'm not impressionable???
    I refer you to said photograph - is that the face of an impressionable cross-dresser?? I think not

    Minnie M wrote:
    Let the matter be closed now please, we have all guessed who it is and most are in agreement that this person is DEFINITELY a Hotshot on the dance floor, although he might be very nice off it.


    I have thought quite long and hard about posting this, and I expect I will get flamed, but I have felt quite uncomfortable about the identification of the above individual. I found it easy to identify him and just feel that IMHO the Forum shouldn't really be about 'naming and shaming'. Quite apart from how they might feel to read or hear third hand what has been said about them, there are, potentially, legal issues involved. I'm not saying that the comments are necessarily potentially libellous in this case, and Franck usually polices the Forum effectively in such circumstances. I'm just saying, I don't think criticising identifiable individuals (rather than a general kind of behaviour) is what the Forum should be about.

    *phew* - sits back to await flaming

  11. #171
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    Demise of the garden party

    Originally posted by Lounge Lizard
    I lost a lot of money and will not be having any more garden parties
    Peter this is a real shame, no reason you should continue with all that effort and taking a big loss. I wondered if having it on the August bank holiday w/e just before the start of Beach Boogie affected the numbers?

    Anyway I feel privileged to have attended the last 2 of these fab events, and have lots of great memories and some hilarious video footage to go with it.

    Greg

  12. #172
    Senior Member Minnie M's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Divissima
    [B]I have thought quite long and hard about posting this, and I expect I will get flamed, but I have felt quite uncomfortable about the identification of the above individual. I found it easy to identify him and just feel that IMHO the Forum shouldn't really be about 'naming and shaming'. Quite apart from how they might feel to read or hear third hand what has been said about them, there are, potentially, legal issues involved. I'm not saying that the comments are necessarily potentially libellous in this case, and Franck usually polices the Forum effectively in such circumstances. I'm just saying, I don't think criticising identifiable individuals (rather than a general kind of behaviour) is what the Forum should be about.

    *phew* - sits back to await flaming
    I really wish I hadn't said anything now, but it went with the theme of the thread - I didn't mean to expose the person and for this I apologise, I think the follow-on postings caused the problem, but isn't that what a forum is about ? I personally was very hurt by this incident, but we are talking about HOTSHOTS here - legal issues ?? As I said in my last posting I was hoping this issue would be closed, it has gone on far too long.


    --ooOoo--
    Age is a question of mind over matter, if you don't mind, it doesn't matter
    Leroy (Satchel) Paige (1906-1982)

    Mickey Mouse's girlfriend, Minnie, made her film debut, along with Mickey, in "Steamboat Willie" on November 18, 1928.
    That date is recognized as her official birthday.

  13. #173
    Registered User ChrisA's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Divissima
    I have thought quite long and hard about posting this, and I expect I will get flamed, but I have felt quite uncomfortable about the identification of the above individual.
    Couldn't agree more.

    I've referred to one of two hotshots, but not in public by name.

    In at least one of the hotshot incidents I've encountered for myself, I've subsequently acquired a snippet of info that puts it into the "insensitive but understandable" category.

    I know I can sometimes be insensitive without knowing it, and it doesn't make me a bad person, so I'm reluctant to bad-mouth anyone.

    Chris

  14. #174
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    Originally posted by Divissima
    and I expect I will get flamed, but I have felt quite uncomfortable about the identification of the above individual. I found it easy to identify him and just feel that IMHO the Forum shouldn't really be about 'naming and shaming'.
    You won't get flamed by me Diva. I completely agree. Now I know who this person is (alright, it always takes me longer to catch on than anyone else), I can vouch that they have a very sweet and kind side as well and have always treated me with nothing other than respect; by saying this I'm not saying he doesn't have a bad side, I'm just saying his good side is possibly something better to focus on.

    Let's leave names out of it in future, otherwise it just becomes victimisation against an individual which could be classed as being worse that the initial deed. We are all sinners afterall... I hold me hands up to that

    Px

    PS You can shoot me down in flames as well, but make it quick pleeeeeaaase!

  15. #175
    Registered User Divissima's Avatar
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    Minnie M wrote:
    I think the follow-on postings caused the problem, but isn't that what a forum is about ?
    Sorry, Minnie, but it is possible to identify him from your post. And while I would agree that the Forum is for airing issues which affect us as dancers (and for wasting time at work, of course), I think there is a problem when it goes from the general to the specific/personal.

    I personally was very hurt by this incident, but we are talking about HOTSHOTS here - legal issues ??
    I wouldn't for one moment deny your right to feel how you feel - who am I to say how you or anyone should react? But just because we are bandying around the term 'Hotshots', I think we need to be careful about condemning people out of hand. As Chris pointed out above, there are always (at least) two points of view to any such incident. We also need to be careful about posting anything potentially libellous (we don't want Franck shut down, after all!).

    Sorry Minnie, this isn't meant to be a criticism of you - more a reminder for everyone. Want to write more but have to fly to a meeting....

  16. #176
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    Yes, enough already.

    Originally posted by Minnie M
    I really wish I hadn't said anything now, but it went with the theme of the thread - I didn't mean to expose the person and for this I apologise, I think the follow-on postings caused the problem, but isn't that what a forum is about ? I personally was very hurt by this incident, but we are talking about HOTSHOTS here - legal issues ?? As I said in my last posting I was hoping this issue would be closed, it has gone on far too long.
    Pandora’s box I’m afraid hun , but yes it does take two to tango and any responsibility you may feel for the way the thread has progressed recently has to be shared by anyone who has publicly enquired as to the identity of this person. Publicly, this is no-one’s business but those directly involved, any investigation as to who this person may have been should have been pursued face-face with yourself or, at the most, via PM. You may have made a mistake in alluding as to whom this person was, but it was an allusion that I, and others missed, until it was highlighted by someone else.

    You have every right to post how you feel/felt in that situation, hell I did. These emotions may have lead you to say more than you would do normally, we all make mistakes in the heat of the moment – that is why it is good to have people less worked-up in a situation around us, they help us deal with the causes of that distress. I feel you have been let down.

    The point of the ‘Hotshots’ thread is, in my opinion, an examination of the phenomenon, not a crusade against individuals. One recurring theme regarding ‘Hotshots’ is the insensitivity they display to others. There has been, for a short time, a display of insensitivity to an individual that is no different or less hurtful than people receive from the actions of hotshots. Vilifying an individual is not the answer, because it has no bearing to the question initially raised by this thread - ‘What is a Hotshot?’ not ‘Who is a hotshot’.

    There is a time and a place for everything, full-disclosure vendettas have no place on this forum, if you want to find out who someone is, do it face-to-face. ‘Naming and shaming’ will only discourage individuals from enjoying the Forum, in the same way some people diminish our enjoyment on the dance floor.

    Flame away.

    P.S. Minny, there’s always an ape looking for a dance You at Hippies tomorrow?

  17. #177
    Registered User stewart38's Avatar
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    who is this person ?

    I haven't caught on yet

    Agree however its best not to name and shame


  18. #178
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    I wouldn't imagine many people think of themselves as hotshots, or the people they dance a lot with, so that doesn't leave much but . . .

    Is there an idea that can be applied across the board on this phenomena?

    (cross ref - Gadget's post in the 'fess up guys' thread perhaps, and maybe some of the comments in the 'awestruck' thread . . .)

    Isn't it that we like dancing with people who make us feel comfortable? I imagined for a while that anyone who cold-shouldered / avoided / blank-danced me was snobby, had something against me, or whatever, but then I wondered why I also (on very rare occasions) instinctively avoid (as do most of us if we're honest) the occasional person (though not directly refuse)?

    What I'm getting at is that in asking someone for a dance and when dancing with them we try to put them at ease. This may be dance related or it may just be the 'vibe' we give off (even unintentionally) and is often different for different combinations of two people at any one time. So I think I'm saying the responsibility for putting someone at ease so they want to dance is the with the person making the move (and sometimes best attempts fail - at least at the time). Where it's a battle of wills (neither wants to make the first move but there's still an interest) then probably both people have some work to do to put each other at ease.

    Does this make any sense at all? I'm not saying unpleasant (or unpleasant to some) people don't exist, just that it seems to me we need a more creative solution than labelling . . .




  19. #179
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    Awareness of self?

    There has been much talk about Hotshots and their behaviour on this thread. There's even been the revival of the term I'd not heard of before, the 'Ceroc Snob'. There can be no doubt that they exist and that this is a phenomenon that can be seen just about anywhere. But what relevance does it have to us?

    There are 2 questions to ask yourself. These are;

    1. Am I a Hotshot?
    2. Do I want Hotshots in my dancing life?


    1. Am I a Hotshot?

    The first question you need to ask is if you care. Do you match most of the following criteria;

    a.You don't dance with beginners. You might think they make you look bad or you might think someone else can train them up to be worthy of you.
    b.You sit out the intermediate lessons - this is far more active than turning up after the lesson, you must be present but not do the lesson. You know all the moves and don't feel the need to help the lesser dancers who do the lesson - you might even chat and laugh during the lesson making those taking it feel self-conscious.
    c You have a regular group of people who you exclusively like dance with. You dance well together and never make each other look bad. Your group probably station themselves somewhere near the stage.
    d. You don't think you need to do anything personally to encourage beginners/lesser dancers. You're not an unpaid taxi dancer, you'll dance with them when they're good enough to join your elite.
    e. You make people feel feel uncomfortable when they dance with you. You look bored, sad, grumpy, or superior so that they don't ask again.

    If you're most of the above then you are a hotshot, and if you're happy with that you really don't have a problem.

    On the other hand, you might have slipped into this behaviour accidentally or through peer group pressure. You might want to encourage beginners, you might want to dance with new people, you might not smile because you have no teeth

    This is a journey of self-awareness. Ask yourself searching questions, 'do I still dance with beginners', 'do I take part in lessons', 'do I ask strangers to dance', 'do I want to put something back', etc. If the answer to these questions is yes then you aren't a Hotshot.


    2. Do I want Hotshots in my dancing life?

    So, we've decided we aren't a Hotshot But they are a fact of life in the dance scene. What do we do about them? Do we dance with them? The answer is that we dance with the people we like dancing with. It would be a kind of inverse snobbery to avoid Hotshots. So we should ask Hotshots to dance, and if we get no pleasure from a dance with someone we don't repeat the experience. So the answer for me is that I don't agree with their behaviour because I think it's selfish but I will dance with them if it's fun. But that won't stop me dancing with beginners - and I believe that failure to do this is the main indicator that someone is a Hotshot.


    3. Should we name Hotshots?

    What would be the point?

  20. #180
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    Re: Awareness of self?

    Originally posted by Andy McGregor
    1. Am I a Hotshot?
    b.You sit out the intermediate lessons
    Yes
    c You have a regular group of people who you exclusively like dance with. You dance well together and never make each other look bad. Your group probably station themselves somewhere near the stage.
    Yes - at least the people I ask (they are called my friends)
    e. You make people feel feel uncomfortable when they dance with you.
    I've been told this a lot.
    If you're most of the above then you are a hotshot
    3 out of 5 counts as 'most', so guilty as charged
    and if you're happy with that you really don't have a problem.
    Pretty happy - apart from the 'uncomfortable' bit.

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