Hotshots...

[Lory]

After reading Andy Mcgregors and Chris A's thoughts on Hotshots, it made me think. ..................
Last night, I was at another Venue, one where I'm fairly well known, (not for my brilliant dancing skills, I might add, just cos I've been going there for a while now)
It wasn't a very busy night and as I was walking off the dance floor, I noticed a guy I hadn't seen before, made eye contact and gestured would he like to dance. To my embarrassment, he looked very shocked but pleased, anyway, it became evident that he'd been coming for about 10 weeks but only stayed to the freestyle for the past 6 weeks and apparently he'd noticed me 'every week'!
I asked him why he hadn't asked me to dance b4, he said, 'you always seem so busy and I didn't think you'd like to dance with a beginner!
I've always hoped that I would be seen as nothing else but friendly and very approachable, seems as though we all have a lesson to learn!
It made me think back to my school days, we all knew the people in our class and the ones who were in the years above us, we looked up to them in awe, we thought they knew everything BUT did they notice us? not a chance! Its not that they were being horrible, its just that they didn't notice us!
Its the same with Ceroc, the freestyle is only 1 or 2hours long, and if you've been a regular a venue for a time, you get to know people, make friendships, most of us DON'T make a conscience decision to exclude people, we just haven't taken the time to 'notice them.'
I for one will try harder!

[ChrisA]

Originally posted by Sheepman
I told her she would be better off on a Wednesday

Yeah, but not at Hipsters, hopefully

[smacks wrist, D,G & R]

The yank ( ) was exceptionally well disguised... unbelievably floppy arms until the last microsecond, then, powwww (ouchhhh)

At least normally you get a warning from the vice like grip

Chris

[Andy McGregor]

Originally posted by Sheepman
Andy your "hotshot Groupie" test doesn't work for Hippies on a Tuesday, when was the last time you saw a beginner there, and are we all "Hotshots" just for going on a Tuesday?
(Actually there was one beginner there last Tuesday, I had one dance with her, and I think both Chris and I suffered the same yanking.) I told her she would be better off on a Wednesday

It seems that you and ChrisA have danced with 100% of the beginners on that particular Tuesday. That means you are not 'Hotshot Groupies'. And if there are no beginners you can not be criticised for not dancing with them

You and ChrisA are not the people who sping to mind when it comes to not dancing with beginners. There are many other dancers who don't want to be seen looking bad with a beginner - think 'Hotshot' and 'Hotshot Groupie'. Who springs to mind. Don't answer that question on this thread, they know who they are and will hopefully correct this short-sighted behaviour. Meanwhile we'll be out there dancing with absoluetely everyone irrespective of talent

[Lounge Lizard]

[i]There are many other dancers who don't want to be seen looking bad with a beginner - think 'Hotshot' and 'Hotshot Groupie'. Who springs to mind. Don't answer that question on this thread, they know who they are and will hopefully correct this short-sighted behaviour. Meanwhile we'll be out there dancing with absolutely everyone irrespective of talent

Who are these guys/girls (and are they aware of their hot shot status - I think not) I dance at lots of venues and think I am quite observant of the dancers around me (you may recall I wrote the 'dance for him - her' storyline).
Are we criticising dancers for enjoying a dance with their friends?
I don't expect anyone to name and shame but your impression of Hipsters seems different to mine
Last time I was there I took a friend, we practiced/danced together most of the night, and when I was not dancing with her I selected my friends to dance with (Lynda, Lily, Pammy etc.)
So have I now been elevated to the level of Hotshot?

[DavidB]

oops

[ChrisA]

Originally posted by Lounge Lizard
So have I now been elevated to the level of Hotshot?

I don't think a non-hotshot can become one in one night

Chris

[Andy McGregor]

Originally posted by Lounge Lizard
[B] Are we criticising dancers for enjoying a dance with their friends?

No, we are criticising dancers for not dancing with beginners If we don't do our bit and dance with them the classes we love will eventually fail because there's nobody new coming through. Where will those Lyndas, Pammys, Lilys come from if we don't encourage them?

Originally posted by Lounge Lizard
[B]Last time I was there I took a friend, we practiced/danced together most of the night, and when I was not dancing with her I selected my friends to dance with (Lynda, Lily, Pammy etc.)

I remember that young, slim, attractive blonde partner. I'm criticising you because I never got a look in with her But I did dance with the partners you listed AND still got around the beginners and other dancers I didn't know as well. Some of them were great dancers, one in particular was a real star - and some of them weren't. But I had a great deal of fun with all of them

Originally posted by Lounge Lizard
[B] So have I now been elevated to the level of Hotshot?

You need to work much harder to earn this title. One night of selfishness isn't enough. I've seen you dancing with loads of beginners - if you want to be a 'Hotshot' that's got to stop straight away

Originally posted by DavidB
oops

[TheTramp]

Originally posted by DavidB
oops

Not quite up to your usual level of postings, O Oracle

Steve

[Andy McGregor]

Originally posted by TheTramp
Not quite up to your usual level of postings, O Oracle

Steve

DavidB's 'Oops' is, for me the best posting of the week. Far better than any missive I've come up with so far. It shows a real willingness to 'know thyself' and a keeness to change.

I must admit that I didn't think of DavidB as one of the people who needed an 'Oops' as he's one of the nicest people on the dance scene.

Anyone else got an 'Oops' they'd like to share with the group?



p.s. Oops

[Chris]

Originally posted by Lounge Lizard
Are we criticising dancers for enjoying a dance with their friends? I don't expect anyone to name and shame but your impression of Hipsters seems different to mine. Last time I was there I took a friend, we practiced/danced together most of the night, and when I was not dancing with her I selected my friends to dance with (Lynda, Lily, Pammy etc.)
So have I now been elevated to the level of Hotshot?

I think Lizard's got a point, and sometimes however hard anyone tries, someone, somewhere, may be disappointed. There are people who always used to ask me for a dance who I miss dancing with, but I suspect it is because they feel comfy dancing with their regular friends - and trying to get round all your friends some nights can be hard! (If I was cynical I would say they had promoted themselves to 'hotshot' status but I hope that's not the case and know it probably isn't even if it seems like it.)

It can be a bit frustrating if you go to a venue where the person you've got you're eye on doesn't give you a dance. I think there's times for being selfish (dancing with who you want) and times for being courteous (asking at least a couple of folk you don't know for a dance) but, even then, you'll never please all the people all the time. It can be hard not to offend inadvertantly. When I was teaching recently I made a point of saying I hoped I got asked for lots of dances, and I did, but I still saved the last few records for friends I hardly ever see and who I wanted to spend time with dancing before they had to leave (including my amazing demo Helen, who I think is a much better dancer than me, and who had travelled quite a way).

The other thing I notice is that many top dancers - who are in the celestial spheres way above me - are just as shy as I am, or as beginners are. I will ask them, but try to avoid 'using them as a mannequin' - it's a social experience, and as people we are all equal - if I can't dance at her level then I at least try to give her a nice three minutes (or hopefully six!)

People who have regular partners (one special one or even several that they dance with often and so know all their special spectacular flourishes) can feel a bit on the spot when they dance with someone new. And for many people the image of dancing well (to the level they are able to dance with their regular partners for instance) acts as a reassuring buffer for their shyness.

Others may have different experiences. I don't care anymore whether I 'look good' on the dance floor - I just want to make each dance a special and lovely experience for each person I dance with. If we can make the dancing fab that's great, but if we can't, I don't like them any the less, and hope they feel the same towards me! In the long run, the shared good will is sometimes the creative basis on which a dancefloor communication can take place, make both partners feel relaxed, and free of pressure, and let the dancing flow.

[DavidB]

Originally posted by TheTramp
Not quite up to your usual level of postings

The original was posted by accident - I aimed for 'Preview' and hit 'Submit'. It wasn't that funny, so I edited it.

But two comments and a for a single word must make it my most efficient post ever.

David

[Chris]

Originally posted by DavidB
But two comments and a for a single word must make it my most efficient post ever.

ROFL
very efficient indeed!!

btw what were you going to amend the 'Oops' to then . . . ?

[Boomer]

Originally posted by Chris
... I don't care anymore whether I 'look good' on the dance floor - I just want to make each dance a special and lovely experience for each person I dance with. If we can make the dancing fab that's great, but if we can't, I don't like them any the less, and hope they feel the same towards me! ...

And that my friend is the key. Sometimes sticking with the people you know, or simply going to any venue on a certain night is not tantamount to bring a ‘Hotshot’. I think one of the tests the McGregster missed is ‘If a newby walks up to you and asks for a dance will you a) Give a lovely smile and say ‘you betcha baby’, then try to ensure you both have a good /3/4 minutes, or b) would you say ‘Bleh!’ turn to a fellow snob and discuss the merits of the ‘Bongo Pongo’?

At the end of the day, if at any point one is worried about being a ‘Hotshot’, then I think its safe to say that in all likelihood you’re one of the good guys.

[TheTramp]

[ ODA ON]
I'm a 'hotshot'.

I pay my money to go to dances for my own enjoyment. I'm not there as a paid teacher - where I may have obligations as part of that role to dance with the beginners, and encourage them to come back, because that's what I'm being paid to do. If you want to pay me to go to a dance, then I may consider dancing with a few other people.

There aren't enough dances in one night to have as many dances as I want, with my own friends anyway. Why should I spoil my own night by dancing with people that I don't know/don't want to dance with. I have no interest in widening my own circle of friends. I have enough already thank you very much. I also have no interest in bringing new people into dancing. I probably wouldn't dance with them anyway, so why bother. That's what the teachers are there for.

I pay (by buying drinks) to go to a pub, to talk to my friends. Nobody makes me talk to other people there, in an attempt to get them to come back to the same pub next week. I also sometimes pay to go bowling with friends - the management at the bowling alley are quite happy that I only bowl in my own lane, with my own friends. Why should my dancing hobby be any different to my other hobbies?

What right do you have to attach a stigma to me, while I'm doing something in my own time, out of my own wallet, that I want to do, in the way I want to do it?

I'm a 'hotshot' and proud of it.
[ODA OFF]

Well, just thought that someone should maybe give a response

[Edit] Please note that these are NOT my own views. I was merely proposing a possible defence for 'hotshots'.

Steve

[Forte]

Originally posted by TheTramp
[ ODA ON]
I'm a 'hotshot'.

IWhat right do you have to attach a stigma to me, while I'm doing something in my own time, out of my own wallet, that I want to do, in the way I want to do it?

I'm a 'hotshot' and proud of it.
[ODA OFF]

Well, just thought that someone should maybe give a response

Steve

Wee bit grumpy today, Steve? You are not a hotshot in that sense because I have seen you make many a beginners' night by asking her to dance...you are a nice guy and just trying to hide it!

[TheTramp]

I didn't say that I subscribe to what I've written.

It was my ODA - official devil's advocate role, where I thought that someone should defend the 'hotshots'. After all, everyone is innocent until proven guilty

Steve

[Pammy]

Originally posted by TheTramp
I have no interest in widening my own circle of friends. I have enough already thank you very much.

Fair enough....

Not the angle I'd come from though...

[TheTramp]

Originally posted by Pammy
Fair enough....

Not the angle I'd come from though...

Like I said. It wasn't my own views. Just a possible defence for 'hotshots'. Please note the [ODA ON] tag....

Steve

[foxylady]

It not about whether you only dance with your own group of friends or not, its about what your attitude is like when you stray outside your comfort zone.

Two examples that happened to me this week ;

At the jive bar on Wed I danced with a 'hotshot'. When I asked him he agreed to dance but extremely reluctantly. He deliberately led me to a part of the floor he would be less easily seen, looked bored for three quarters of the dance, & wouldn't smile. It was a great dance, and we probably looked very good, but I was simply the stooge to enable him to show off (once he realised I could follow what he led).

Last night at said jive bar (why do I go there its so dire !! - oh I know - its where my friends go !) I danced with a guy who in the class had a fabulous sense of rhythm - I hadn't seen him before. It turned out he was just learning, and he apologised all the way through the dance for not knowing enough moves, and confessed to being worried about dancing with me . But we had a laugh, smiled alot and had a very enjoyable dance.

I know which guy I would like to dance with again !!


And as for Steve's ODA comments - whilst I take some of his points, jive (in its many incarnations) is a 'social' dance. The whole ethos of most venues is that people should mix, and alot of the teaches actively encourage this... So why the Hotshots think they are exempt from accepted social behaviour is anyones guess....

[Pammy]

Originally posted by foxylady
It not about whether you only dance with your own group of friends or not, its about what your attitude is like when you stray outside your comfort zone.

I also feel it's a case of "you're not allowed in" at times. I've been to venues where I've seen a group of hotshots that I know of pretty well, and see most weeks, but I wouldn't dare put my stuff at their table; instead I'd sit on my own in the other corner, as their reactions when dancing with me are such that it's obvious they wouldn't want me intruding on their little group, and thus becoming a friend of theirs.

Odd as I'd love to sit and mix, not because they are hotshots, but because they are people that you see on a regular basis so it just makes sense. Why keep people out on the edge. Why not shout across Hey Pammy, over here, pull up a seat etc. (not just to me, but to anyone they know) It's weird...

It's almost like royalty; do you think they expect red carpet around their table?