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Thread: New Southport suggestions

  1. #161
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    Re: New Southport suggestions

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul F View Post
    I really don't agree with this.
    As has already been said I think Ceroc should stick to what they do best and let JA continue with the WCS inclusion.
    Ceroc did try having a dedicated room at Camber while I was teaching WCS for them. Although the workshops were really busy and really popular the turnout of people in the WCS room was woeful. About 14 people max
    I still have great respect for the fact that they tried but, without other infrastructure, it just didnt work.

    Ceroc just wont pull enough WCS dancers if JA have got U.S WCS pro's too. After all, JA have built up a reputation for WCS, run other WCS events etc. They are now associated with WCS. If Ceroc tried to do the same it would render a big room like the Latin Quarter a redundant space IMO.

    And, of course, the fact that the Latin Quarter is a dark, smelly, pit of a room doesnt help either.
    Whether Ceroc include WCS is, I presume, a business decision as well as a dance decision. But if they do decide to include WCS, then given there current description of the weekender as being somewhat guided by the advanced nature of previous JA Southports, I cannot see how that could happen without WCS US Pros. We don't, with all due respect to British WCS teachers, have anyone of their calibre.

    I don't think that just because JA 'do WCS' that Ceroc should automatically not include it. Ceroc weekenders already include 'other dance' rooms, and WCS is proving popular. The numbers are growing steadily, 400 at the beginner WCS I hear. Obviously some of those were simply 'dipping there toes in', but there was also 250 odd at the improvers, similar at Novice. Less, but not insubstantial at Intermediate. Whether a decent room (rather than a sloped, overfast floored Marquis) would encourage that to translate into actual freestylers, I have no idea, but I wouldn't use the results from two? years ago without US Pros as an indicator.

    However, it may be that Ceroc decide that they can fill the weekender without resorting to expensive US Pros, in which case I guess there is no business incentive to include them... Except the damage that might do with regard to competing against an established, successful, product in JA's Southport/Skegport. Maybe it would have an effect, maybe not. These are the decisions ME gets paid the big bucks for

    Personally, the more WCS the merrier is my motto. But 'Yes', the dead badger would have to be removed

  2. #162
    Basically lazy robd's Avatar
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    Re: New Southport suggestions

    Quote Originally Posted by ducasi View Post
    {Nice stuff about Blaze}
    I have been to 2 (well, almost 2) Blaze weekends and I had a really good time at both and I agree that if
    * Franck is involved with the organisation of New Southport
    * the elements that Ducasi highlighted re: Blaze are retained
    that gives Blush a good chance of being a decent weekender.

    However, it should be remembered that Blaze was a much smaller event than many of the weekenders held in the UK. This had the advantage that it meant the classes were never over-subscribed in the way that they have been at most of the weekenders I have been to here (and, yes, I am aware the MasterClass is an attempt to alleviate that problem)

    The other Blaze problems were pretty much venue specific so I don't think they'd affect a different location.

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    Re: New Southport suggestions

    Quote Originally Posted by TA Guy View Post
    ... I cannot see how that could happen without WCS US Pros. We don't, with all due respect to British WCS teachers, have anyone of their calibre.
    Calibre as dancers or teachers? If the former I agree, if the latter I do not.

  4. #164
    Formerly known as DavidJames David Bailey's Avatar
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    Re: New Southport suggestions

    Quote Originally Posted by djtrev View Post
    Call me a suspicious old sod if you like but when JA had SP I dont actually recall so many negative posts,is it just a coincidence that Ceroc have just takin it over.
    Heh, that's weird, I had exactly the same thought regarding the "chalet facilities" posts.

    We're probably both suspicious old sods...

  5. #165
    Registered User Twirly's Avatar
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    Re: New Southport suggestions

    Quote Originally Posted by ducasi View Post
    put Southport in Scotland


    An invasion force? The Scottish Nationalists would be proud of you!

  6. #166
    Formerly known as DavidJames David Bailey's Avatar
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    Re: New Southport suggestions

    Quote Originally Posted by TA Guy View Post
    Whether Ceroc include WCS is, I presume, a business decision as well as a dance decision. But if they do decide to include WCS, then given there current description of the weekender as being somewhat guided by the advanced nature of previous JA Southports
    I that what they've said? Hold on, let me dig up Mike's statement...

    Quote Originally Posted by From Mike's mammoth essay
    { snip history blah blah blah }
    ... { snip even more history blah blah blah }
    ... { snip justification blah blah blah }
    ....

    We cannot ignore the fact that there is a need for more specialist classes and teachers to stretch people’s dancing ability and we realise that it would be business folly to do so.
    Ah, so that's the "using teachers outside Ceroc" bit confirmed.

    And - huh - I just spotted this bit:
    For the record, this offer is still on the table, and I for one would like to see ‘Jive Addiction’ in the driving seat at Southport, and the return of Ceroc teachers and DJs to the events.


    Anyway...
    Our events at Southport will continue to offer international WCS coaches, but now they will also offer classes from Ceroc teachers
    ...
    West Coast Swing
    Our events at Southport will continue to cater for West Coast Swing. These will include international WCS coaches and the offering of different levels of workshops.
    So, it looks like they are looking at continuing a WCS focus at Blush.

    Fair enough; good news for the Westies I guess.

    But outside that I can't see anything specific in Mike's statement, about targetting Blush at a more advanced dancing crowd...

  7. #167
    Teacher Paul F's Avatar
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    Re: New Southport suggestions

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike E
    Our events at Southport will continue to offer international WCS coaches, but now they will also offer classes from Ceroc teachers

    It will be interesting to see who they have managed to get.

    Given that the top US pro's are booked a year in advance I am guessing that Ceroc will have already booked someone.

    Otherwise, it might be very tricky to get a top WCS couple for Blush.

  8. #168
    Registered User Lynn's Avatar
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    Re: New Southport suggestions

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul F View Post
    It will be interesting to see who they have managed to get.

    Given that the top US pro's are booked a year in advance I am guessing that Ceroc will have already booked someone.

    Otherwise, it might be very tricky to get a top WCS couple for Blush.
    I'm not sure that it would be cost effective for them to do so anyway. Do a lot of Westies go to Ceroc weekenders?

    And trying to promote a Ceroc weekend with WCS US pros at Southport will really look like they are just trying to copy JA. Surely Ceroc can come up with some of their own ideas?

    Plus if they do that, and have a lot less Westies than Skegness (which has already got WCS US pros booked and is very near in terms of time) then its going to look like Ceroc have tried to copy JA at SP and not been very successful.

    Ceroc have gained the SP venue, and the old dates, but that doesn't mean they are going to get the SP customers. So they need to not be thinking about 'continuing' at SP as its going to be different people, a different weekend and they need to create their own event.

  9. #169
    Formerly known as DavidJames David Bailey's Avatar
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    Re: New Southport suggestions

    Quote Originally Posted by Lynn View Post
    And trying to promote a Ceroc weekend with WCS US pros at Southport will really look like they are just trying to copy JA. Surely Ceroc can come up with some of their own ideas?
    Yes, I must admit I was surprised to read that stuff myself. And I also would prefer Ceroc to take their own path, as I said.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lynn View Post
    Plus if they do that, and have a lot less Westies than Skegness (which has already got WCS US pros booked and is very near in terms of time) then its going to look like Ceroc have tried to copy JA at SP and not been very successful.
    Exactly.

  10. #170
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    Re: New Southport suggestions

    Quote Originally Posted by Lynn View Post
    Plus if they do that, and have a lot less Westies than Skegness (which has already got WCS US pros booked and is very near in terms of time) then its going to look like Ceroc have tried to copy JA at SP and not been very successful.
    Im going to out on a limb here by saying that i can pretty much guarantee they will not have many (if any) of the more experienced WCS dancers.

    Lets face it you have Eclipse on in the same month as well as Lee Eastons Country event at Brean Sands in the same month too. That event was good last year and has a dedicated WCS room.

    If Ceroc are hoping for some South West Westies to make the trip to Southport rather than Skegness I fear they may be dissapointed. Im guessing a lot of the South West peeps who want WCS will wait for Lee's event.

  11. #171
    Lovely Moderator ducasi's Avatar
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    Re: New Southport suggestions

    Quote Originally Posted by Lynn View Post
    I'm not sure that it would be cost effective for them to do so anyway. Do a lot of Westies go to Ceroc weekenders?

    And trying to promote a Ceroc weekend with WCS US pros at Southport will really look like they are just trying to copy JA. Surely Ceroc can come up with some of their own ideas?

    Plus if they do that, and have a lot less Westies than Skegness (which has already got WCS US pros booked and is very near in terms of time) then its going to look like Ceroc have tried to copy JA at SP and not been very successful.

    Ceroc have gained the SP venue, and the old dates, but that doesn't mean they are going to get the SP customers. So they need to not be thinking about 'continuing' at SP as its going to be different people, a different weekend and they need to create their own event.
    If you think of what Franck did in Blaze, and move it to Southport, it's not Ceroc copying JA, it's simply an expansion of what has gone before, now available for a UK audience.
    Let your mind go and your body will follow. – Steve Martin, LA Story

  12. #172
    Registered User Lynn's Avatar
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    Re: New Southport suggestions

    Quote Originally Posted by ducasi View Post
    If you think of what Franck did in Blaze, and move it to Southport, it's not Ceroc copying JA, it's simply an expansion of what has gone before, now available for a UK audience.
    I know Mario was at Blaze and I really enjoyed his classes - but a lot of the people at the new SP won't have been at Blaze. (And personally I think Blaze works because it is small, scale it up and it just wouldn't be the same.)

    Ceroc trying to do the whole WCS thing at SP will be seen as them copying JA - after all they have taken the venue and the dates, which has done some damage to the Ceroc brand (no matter how many statements each 'side' makes). Trying to copy the JA SP weekend and failing will lead to them looking 'second best'.

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    Re: New Southport suggestions

    As an alternative suggestion to WCS Professional. How about getting a Strictly Come Dancing Professional to headline a future event? The social side would not be quite the same but the Cabaret and classes should be great.

    Steve

  14. #174
    Registered User Lynn's Avatar
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    Re: New Southport suggestions

    Quote Originally Posted by Spiky Steve View Post
    As an alternative suggestion to WCS Professional. How about getting a Strictly Come Dancing Professional to headline a future event?
    Yeah, cos bringing a SCD pro to SP wouldn't look like copying JA either...

    Sorry, its a good idea, but not a new one for SP.

  15. #175
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    Re: New Southport suggestions

    Quote Originally Posted by Lynn View Post
    Yeah, cos bringing a SCD pro to SP wouldn't look like copying JA either...

    Sorry, its a good idea, but not a new one for SP.
    Well, depending on the professional, it might work - and JA have gone away from the SCD thing recently, so it's not a bad idea.

    I hear Nicole Cutler's free

  16. #176
    Registered User Lynn's Avatar
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    Re: New Southport suggestions

    Quote Originally Posted by David Bailey View Post
    Well, depending on the professional, it might work - and JA have gone away from the SCD thing recently, so it's not a bad idea.
    Have they gone away from it? They had Vincent and Flavia booked for earlier this year, though events meant that didn't work out. I'm not sure that means they would never book more though - I think they tended to have them about one event per year.

    But yes there are other 'headline' names that Ceroc could bring in as a draw for this event.

  17. #177
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    Re: New Southport suggestions

    Quote Originally Posted by Lynn View Post
    Ceroc trying to do the whole WCS thing at SP will be seen as them copying JA - after all they have taken the venue and the dates, which has done some damage to the Ceroc brand (no matter how many statements each 'side' makes). Trying to copy the JA SP weekend and failing will lead to them looking 'second best'.
    Copying ? Didn't JA base there whole weekender idea on copying Franco's five years ago ?
    Sure, JA took it in another direction, but if we go around saying such and such has done that, you can't copy it... It's a recipe for, well, stagnation at least.

    WCS is the second most popular dance (my survey said ) right now in the MJ world. It should be included.
    If it's going to be included, then every effort may as well be made to make sure it's done well.

    If Blush WCS turns out to be second best to Skegport (not sure how you would measure that), so be it, at least WCS is growing and offering more choices.

  18. #178
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    Re: New Southport suggestions

    Quote Originally Posted by TA Guy View Post
    Skegport .
    Can we kill that term now, please?

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    Re: New Southport suggestions

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeEllard
    We will be able to re-introduce the return of the DJs that helped make Southport the success it is; John Baker, Mark Forster, Steve Lampert, Sheena Assiph and Rob Ambridge. We are also very happy to consider any existing Southport independent DJs.
    I'm surprised no one has picked up on this part of Mike's post. Am I the only one that finds this a tad hypocritical, after the DJ's were made to choose between working for Ceroc and other independants? They are certainly double standards. The DJ's that chose to stick with Ceroc may as well have become/stayed independant as it seems they would still get the Ceroc weekender jobs anyway, but they would also be able to work elsewhere.

  20. #180
    Registered User Lynn's Avatar
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    Re: New Southport suggestions

    Quote Originally Posted by TA Guy View Post
    Copying ? Didn't JA base there whole weekender idea on copying Franco's five years ago ?
    Yes, of course they wanted to have a similar event in the North. That's where it started.

    Quote Originally Posted by TA Guy View Post
    Sure, JA took it in another direction, but if we go around saying such and such has done that, you can't copy it... It's a recipe for, well, stagnation at least.
    How is innovating and trying new things a recipe for stagnation?? Surely trying to copy something is the recipe for stagnation? You think creating clone events is a good idea?

    Quote Originally Posted by TA Guy View Post
    WCS is the second most popular dance (my survey said ) right now in the MJ world. It should be included.
    If it's going to be included, then every effort may as well be made to make sure it's done well.
    Ceroc have a base of lots of regular weekly dancers to cater for which JA don't (in fact this is something they have criticised JA on here for). Ceroc needs to take its main customers - which is your average week night dancer, into consideration when planning weekender events.

    Other weekender organisers can aim to provide for those who mainly go to freestyles, or who spend as much if not more time going to other dance style classes such as WCS or AT etc. This naturally leads to a different focus in terms of classes, music etc. I think its great that there are different weekenders out there and I know the sort of weekender that appeals to me may not appeal to another dancer.

    Ceroc know their own market, and will know what sort of classes appeal to their weekly dancers and will mostly likely provide an event based on that. I'm sure not sure that will include masses of WCS, as however popular it is growing in MJ circles, its not something that Ceroc teach in their weekly classes.
    Last edited by Lynn; 18th-September-2008 at 04:13 PM.

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