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Thread: New Southport suggestions

  1. #121
    Formerly known as DavidJames David Bailey's Avatar
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    Re: New Southport suggestions

    Quote Originally Posted by Bluey View Post
    { snip rant which really should be in the aftermath thread }
    Errr, and your suggestion is...?

    I assume it's not seriously:
    Quote Originally Posted by Bluey View Post
    I think all dancers should be vacinated, told the venue is a health risk AND everyone on arrival being given rubber gloves
    So I'm at a loss to see why you're posting on this thread?

  2. #122
    Formerly known as DavidJames David Bailey's Avatar
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    Re: New Southport suggestions

    Anyway, getting back to the topic of actual, you know, suggestions, here's another one; it's more philosophical than concrete:

    Don't try to make it like JA events.

    A philosophy of "Building on the success of Southport" is both an irksome reminder of the controversial circumstances of the takeover, and it's going down the wrong path. Let JA do their thing - they'll always be better at their specialities than Ceroc are anyway - and develop your own identity for Blush.

    By all means, recognise the advantages of Southport geographically, by all means target the event at more experienced dancers, and by all means use the facilities (Blues Room etc.) in similar ways.

    But don't attempt to copy JA; I'd not even recommend continuing traditions like Forum Gatherings, Forum BBQs etc. Instead, create new traditions.

    I think this approach will help provide more choice to the customer, and will help differentiate between the two types of weekender. And from a purely business point of view, let's face it, if they're both very similar, JA will probably get the advantage, because they're better at doing their specialities than Ceroc are.

  3. #123
    Registered User Lynn's Avatar
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    Re: New Southport suggestions

    Quote Originally Posted by DS87 View Post
    It also looks like there are options to get 8 staying in the same chalet but I am sure that I must be reading this wrong; though the low price might sugest otherwise.
    No, you are reading it correctly. The blurb says 'budget from £59' and that seems to be what that price is for - 8 people in a 2 bedroom budget - the rooms have a single and bunk each so three people per bedroom and two on the sofa bed. Which would be pretty crowded - 8 people trying to use the bathroom... plus you only get two keys. I'm not sure there will be a lot of take up on that option. (Personally I think 4 is enough for a 2 bedroom chalet - have Ceroc got less chalets available than JA had or are they planning on fitting more people in? Not sure the dance venues could hold any more, esp if not using the marquee.)

    Quote Originally Posted by David Bailey View Post
    Don't try to make it like JA events.

    A philosophy of "Building on the success of Southport" is both an irksome reminder of the controversial circumstances of the takeover, and it's going down the wrong path. Let JA do their thing - they'll always be better at their specialities than Ceroc are anyway - and develop your own identity for Blush.
    I think this is pretty essential. If Ceroc try to 'recreate' a JA Southport then people are always going to be comparing (those who go who have been to a JA Southport that is) and its never going to be quite the same. I think Ceroc would be better trying to recreate the success of the first Storm (which was a good event) in a different location.

    I don't think it will be the same market base that Ceroc draw on for their Southport event than JA did and I suspect many of those attending will not have been at the JA events.

    JA 'Southport' has simply moved to Skegness - it will continue with the same 'vibe', DJs and customers. Ceroc need to do their own thing at Pontins now. Which will mean changing things - but some big changes will mean its 'different' - a few smaller changes will mean people will be comparing.
    Last edited by Lynn; 17th-September-2008 at 10:33 AM.

  4. #124
    Registered User stewart38's Avatar
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    Re: New Southport suggestions

    Quote Originally Posted by David Bailey View Post
    I think this approach will help provide more choice to the customer, and will help differentiate between the two types of weekender. And from a purely business point of view, let's face it, if they're both very similar, JA will probably get the advantage, because they're better at doing their specialities than Ceroc are.

    Really ?

    SWISH a specialist weekender in a hotel has been sold out for month (in the market for tickets )

    Breeze with the blues room and comps ,turning into a specialist weekender

    I would have thought ceroc are slowly creating ‘specialist weekenders’

    Breeze is going down the blues route etc


    ----------------------------------------------

    Our DJs have an enviable reputation, and our Blues DJs are the very best and you will only find them playing at an Escape weekender.

    With a huge rise in popularity, Blues has become a regular addition to many Ceroc freestyle nights and talent is blossoming all over the country……. so it’s time to get your competition shoes out and start Grooving the Blues in order to take the 2nd UK Open Blues Champs trophy home with you!
    To give you some last minute tips, tricks and moves we will have a range of blues classes with great teachers including maximum capacity Blues Master Classes which will be pre-bookable at the event.
    And…. to get plenty of practice in beforehand you might want to pop along to some of Ceroc’s Blues nights including ‘Fresh’ or ‘Utopia’
    ---------------------------------------------

  5. #125
    Formerly known as DavidJames David Bailey's Avatar
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    Re: New Southport suggestions

    Quote Originally Posted by stewart38 View Post
    Really ?
    Yes, really - JA have been doing JA-type events longer than Ceroc have, so I assume they're more experience / speciality in doing those type of events.

    Ceroc are more experienced at doing Ceroc-type of events, funnily enough.

    I'd say the same thing if JA tried to directly copy Ceroc events.

    Although there's nothing wrong with copying general innovations (gender-balancing, for example - remember when that was controversial, a whole 2 years ago?), trying to directly copy the format of another organisation will probably never work.

  6. #126
    B.O.G.O.F. fletch's Avatar
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    Re: New Southport suggestions

    Quote Originally Posted by Rocky View Post
    You did, but last time you mentioned it was a different room number..



    Make your flippin' mind up!


    I hadn't had any sleep, it is 324, sorted then ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cruella View Post
    234 is Fletch's chalet and 324 is for her clothes.




    I cant take as much now I have an new smaller car

  7. #127
    Registered User Twirly's Avatar
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    Re: New Southport suggestions

    Quote Originally Posted by David Bailey View Post
    Anyway, getting back to the topic of actual, you know, suggestions, here's another one; it's more philosophical than concrete:

    Don't try to make it like JA events.

    But don't attempt to copy JA; I'd not even recommend continuing traditions like Forum Gatherings, Forum BBQs etc. Instead, create new traditions.

    In principle, I agree with what you are saying, but surely the forum BBQ/Gathering is something organised by forumites for forumites? I know that J&W kindly provided the BBQ in June, but they didn't actually organise it did they? Or did we (i.e. Minnie) have to get permission? Anyway, if most of the forumites are likely to go to Skeggie instead, then this will hardly be an issue, as there won't be enough there to have a large BBQ, though a smaller one might happen (as did lots of non-forum BBQs from what I could see). And don't most weekenders have a forum gathering (even if I do keep getting there late and missing them )

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    Re: New Southport suggestions

    Quote Originally Posted by fletch View Post




    I cant take as much now I have an new smaller car
    nice car though

  9. #129
    Registered User Lynn's Avatar
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    Re: New Southport suggestions

    Quote Originally Posted by Twirly View Post
    And don't most weekenders have a forum gathering (even if I do keep getting there late and missing them )
    No - JA Southport has the only weekender to have an official forum gathering (other than the BFG). Others are just people saying 'meet here at X time' but JA put it in the printed programme, set aside a room (originally the Latin room, then moved to the Blues room), got one of the forumites to DJ etc. It all started at the first SP and it was Bardsey's idea - she asked John and Wes and they said OK and it went on from there.

    I think what DB means is that these are things that have naturally 'evolved' over time at SP because of the people who have been involved and to try and just copy them won't work.

  10. #130
    Registered User Twirly's Avatar
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    Re: New Southport suggestions

    Quote Originally Posted by Lynn View Post
    No - JA Southport has the only weekender to have an official forum gathering (other than the BFG). Others are just people saying 'meet here at X time' but JA put it in the printed programme, set aside a room (originally the Latin room, then moved to the Blues room), got one of the forumites to DJ etc. It all started at the first SP and it was Bardsey's idea - she asked John and Wes and they said OK and it went on from there.

    I think what DB means is that these are things that have naturally 'evolved' over time at SP because of the people who have been involved and to try and just copy them won't work.
    Now I see what you mean - particularly about the gathering being in the book.

  11. #131
    Formerly known as DavidJames David Bailey's Avatar
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    Re: New Southport suggestions

    Quote Originally Posted by Twirly View Post
    In principle, I agree with what you are saying, but surely the forum BBQ/Gathering is something organised by forumites for forumites?
    The Gathering is just a fancy name for a freestyle section of the dance, it's not an actual party. But it's an official part of the programme, and I'd personally class it as a JA tradition, rather than a Southport tradition (Interesting question - if Ceroc ran a forumite gathering at Blush, would people attend?)

    The BBQ's more of a grey area, admittedly, although as you say JA have supported it. Traditions are like that, they tend to grow organically and unofficially. The morning-after breakfast, for example.

    But I don't want to try to dissect each tradition - my general point is that Ceroc need to encourage new traditions, not copy (or "steal") JA's.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lynn View Post
    I think what DB means is that these are things that have naturally 'evolved' over time at SP because of the people who have been involved and to try and just copy them won't work.
    Exactly. Well-put.

  12. #132
    Registered User stewart38's Avatar
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    Re: New Southport suggestions

    Quote Originally Posted by Twirly View Post
    Now I see what you mean - particularly about the gathering being in the book.
    It use to be called the ceroc forum gathering or Scottish ceroc forum gathering, ‘ceroc’ was dropped 2006 from the magazine??

    I’ve kept every Southport weekender magazine so maybe ill do a PHD one day in how Southport has evolved

    In 2004 WCS was the first gender balanced toilet etc

    BBQ take place all over the site and the forum just happen to be the largest (although I saw the one opposite this time had more balloons )

    Whether Mike wants to put in a ‘Scottish ceroc forum gathering’ in his main publicity who knows ??

    This site continues to grow , it has about 200 ‘regular users’ another 200/300 who watch so

    One thing about Southport was a community feel, not sure why the competition wouldn’t want to engenda that in some way

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    Registered User Twirly's Avatar
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    Re: New Southport suggestions

    Quote Originally Posted by David Bailey View Post
    Ceroc need to encourage new traditions, not copy (or "steal") JA's.
    So... what sort of things would you like to see developing?

  14. #134
    Registered User stewart38's Avatar
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    Re: New Southport suggestions

    Quote Originally Posted by David Bailey View Post
    But I don't want to try to dissect each tradition - my general point is that Ceroc need to encourage new traditions, not copy (or "steal") JA's.

    I assume the first thing they need to do is run a business that at least breaks even

    I doubt very much they would do a official forum barbeque or gathering neither of which in themselves have much effect in attendance

    They maybe do 24/7 or other elements that work well (Franco first did that)

    They already have sack the DJ and pub quiz which are specific to them

    I do believe ‘traditions’ and for me that could include a blue dance comp can help create a difference between weekenders

    However there a business like Tesco and there copy what works and if the punters go else where they will have a looked as to why

  15. #135
    Formerly known as DavidJames David Bailey's Avatar
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    Re: New Southport suggestions

    Quote Originally Posted by Twirly View Post
    So... what sort of things would you like to see developing?
    I dunno - as I said, it's a general philosophical point, I've not got a specific list or anything.

  16. #136
    Commercial Operator Rocky's Avatar
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    Re: New Southport suggestions

    Quote Originally Posted by stewart38 View Post
    ..In 2004 WCS was the first gender balanced toilet etc..
    the picture that's conjured up is just brilliant.. John & Wes handing out paper towels with a tray of fragrances and condoms on the side holding their hands out for a bit of loose change..

  17. #137
    Basically lazy robd's Avatar
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    Re: New Southport suggestions

    Quote Originally Posted by Rocky View Post
    the picture that's conjured up is just brilliant.. John & Wes handing out paper towels with a tray of fragrances and condoms on the side holding their hands out for a bit of loose change..
    Which conjures up the picture on my mind of the Ceroc Champs, the only dance event I have attended with such attendants on duty - I thought we'd got away with it at the Troxy but it was back this year again

  18. #138
    Registered User Gojive's Avatar
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    Re: New Southport suggestions

    Quote Originally Posted by Rocky View Post
    the picture that's conjured up is just brilliant.. John & Wes handing out paper towels with a tray of fragrances and condoms on the side holding their hands out for a bit of loose change..
    Piped music playing Johnny Cash?....


  19. #139
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    Re: New Southport suggestions

    No problem with forumnite gatherings, VIP parties for crew or any of that stuff, but I would never put it in the blurb. It makes the exclusity official, that has no place on a jive weekender.

    Personally, I would dump the Latin quarter. I loved it this time round, but it was never even close to full and frankly, WCS dancers outnumbered Latin dancers. So I would remove the dead badger and rename the Latin Quarter to the Southport Tea Party and make it exclusively WCS. All day and all night (except for the copious WCS master classes)
    To help with Blues room overcrowding, I would, not ban, but discourage WCS in the Blues room with this change.
    I would also run a fun JnJ during the day or something. I hate comps, but a lot will love that.

    I would increase the amount of ATango/Ballroom/Milonga in the Marquis. Maybe add one or two other dances that don't suffer quite so much as MJ/WCS from the slope. (or just improve the floor). Add Salsa/Latin to make up for loss of Latin Quarter.

    24Hr dancing must be kept, and I would extend it to the new Southport Tea Party. Even if it's just CD's rather than a DJ. No pub quizzes in the Blues room, that should also be all day dancing. DJ's should be given direction/genre. When you have multiple rooms, 'reading the floor' can create problems.
    Remind DJ's that the main room doesn't have to be exclusively thump thump music or locked in 130BPM just because there is a Blues room.

    Shorten the cabaret (half an hour at most, if necessary, have more on different days).

    Dodgem cars.

    Kebab van.

    With the new Southport Tea Party, JnJ etc. Headline WCS US Pros are a must While we're on the subject, generally, Ceroc teachers as a bunch are not good enough to be the sole source of teaching at a weekender (sorry, some are excellent, but not enough of them). External/independant teachers a cut above would be a good idea even for normal Ceroc weekenders, for the type of weekender Ceroc are talking about making Southport, they are a must.

    In the layout of the main room, you must give people who want to dance a place to stand. At Southport, there is no 'standing space' (like the narrow carpet corridor/temp flooring down the middle at Camber). So everyone crams into the side or blocks the entrances. Southport main room layout just generally sucks anyway. Anything to improve that would be great.
    I think I would remove the table and chairs along the side of the floor near the two main entrances, and leave that carpetted as a standing 'I want a dance Now!' area.

    Get Pontins to do something about the chalets. They stink right now.

    Give me free entry.

    Here ends my suggestions

  20. #140
    Basically lazy robd's Avatar
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    Re: New Southport suggestions

    Quote Originally Posted by TA Guy View Post
    Kebab van.


    Best suggestion yet.

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