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Thread: aerials on the dance floor rules?

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    aerials on the dance floor rules?

    8. The dancing, learning or practice of aerial moves is strictly forbidden at any Ceroc venue, save for the Ceroc Champs. Please note that this extends to any part of a Ceroc venue including corridors, the car park or private rooms. This rule applies irrespective of whether you are regular dance partners.

    This rule/quote is taken off a local franchise that I use but is it appicable to all Ceroc venues or is it at the ceroc franchise owners discretion. It seems looking at the statement that it applies to all but I have been to a venue recently where one or two couples (including the owner/teacher) do incorporate a few arials (not just baby ones) in their dance repetoire every now and then.

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    Formerly known as DavidJames David Bailey's Avatar
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    Re: aerials on the dance floor rules?

    Quote Originally Posted by jemessex View Post
    This rule/quote is taken off a local franchise that I use but is it appicable to all Ceroc venues or is it at the ceroc franchise owners discretion.
    As I understand it, it's a general rule - if you look here it's Rule 8:
    CEROC - About

    Quote Originally Posted by jemessex View Post
    It seems looking at the statement that it applies to all but I have been to a venue recently where one or two couples (including the owner/teacher) do incorporate a few arials (not just baby ones) in their dance repetoire every now and then.
    Then if that's a Ceroc venue, they seem to be breaking those rules - I'd query it, personally.

    We've got several long threads discussing this somewhere...

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    B.O.G.O.F. fletch's Avatar
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    Re: aerials on the dance floor rules?

    Quote Originally Posted by David Bailey View Post
    We've got several long threads discussing this somewhere...
    ask Stokie and Twirlie Bird

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    Registered User martingold's Avatar
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    Re: aerials on the dance floor rules?

    Quote Originally Posted by jemessex View Post
    This rule/quote is taken off a local franchise that I use but is it appicable to all Ceroc venues or is it at the ceroc franchise owners discretion.
    It is as I have been told a rule that is for all ceroc venues no exception and its down to insurance reasons ie anyone doing arials and the insurance for that venue is invalid

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    Cool Re: aerials on the dance floor rules?

    Quote Originally Posted by fletch View Post
    ask Stokie and Twirlie Bird
    I am saying nothing ..







    .. because it won't change anything but my blood pressure

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    Re: aerials on the dance floor rules?

    Quote Originally Posted by martingold View Post
    ie anyone doing arials and the insurance for that venue is invalid
    Oh please Martin, not the old "you will invalidate your insurance" garbage. That's like saying you completely invalidate your car insurance if you park on a double yellow line.

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    Re: aerials on the dance floor rules?

    Quote Originally Posted by Keefy View Post
    Oh please Martin, not the old "you will invalidate your insurance" garbage. That's like saying you completely invalidate your car insurance if you park on a double yellow line.
    You are more likely to invalidate the insurance for the injured party, or to make it possible for the insurance company to seek redress for any payout from the guilty party. What Ceroc is probably trying to do is to stop the insurance company coming after them.

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    Registered User martingold's Avatar
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    Re: aerials on the dance floor rules?

    Quote Originally Posted by Keefy View Post
    Oh please Martin, not the old "you will invalidate your insurance" garbage. That's like saying you completely invalidate your car insurance if you park on a double yellow line.
    no kieth but it depends on what the insurance regulations say when its written up one of which is no ariels and another being taxi dancers are not allowed to teach
    hence when you break these rules the insurance is not valid
    To use your analogy of car insurance if you were able to get cheaper insurance if the company wrote in that you are not insured if parked on a double yellow line then your insurance would be invalid were you to do so

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    Registered User Keefy's Avatar
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    Re: aerials on the dance floor rules?

    Martin - the subject has been done-to-death, but nobody has ever come up this mythical insurance "regulation" (note - policy wording is not a regulation) or even a definition of what an aerial is! Your earlier statement
    Quote Originally Posted by martingold View Post
    ie anyone doing arials and the insurance for that venue is invalid
    is plain wrong, it's as simple as that, it's scare tactics, bigdjiver gave a much more correct response.

    Statements like "your insurance is invalid", "it's against the law" and "it's an HSE regulation" are normally used as a cop-out to hide behind and stifle any debate. It's not worth running the debate again, but I did find the misinformation you have been indoctrinated with a bit much, can we leave it at that?

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    Basically lazy robd's Avatar
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    Re: aerials on the dance floor rules?

    Quote Originally Posted by Keefy View Post
    a cop-out to .... stifle any debate.
    Quote Originally Posted by Keefy View Post
    can we leave it at that?

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    Re: aerials on the dance floor rules?

    To avoid all of this antagonistic conjecture, has anyone actually considered calling Ceroc HQ to find out the real reason?

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    Registered User David Franklin's Avatar
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    Re: aerials on the dance floor rules?

    Quote Originally Posted by Filthy Monkey View Post
    To avoid all of this antagonistic conjecture, has anyone actually considered calling Ceroc HQ to find out the real reason?
    I have (well, I didn't call, I just asked them when I saw them at my venue).

    And he told me the real reason is insurance - it's a condition of their insurance cover.

    I don't know that his answer is true, but I see no reason to doubt it. I think it would be pretty unreasonable to expect Ceroc to provide proof.

    Edit: Thinking about it, I'm not sure if the person concerned really counts as "Ceroc HQ". I'd say he's definitely "inner circle", however.
    Last edited by David Franklin; 3rd-September-2008 at 11:18 AM.

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    Re: aerials on the dance floor rules?

    I have two insurances as a dance teacher. Neither mentions airsteps. However, what we are asked to do is to conduct a risk-assessment. I believe that the risks of airsteps on a social dance floor are unacceptable risks. Therefore I don't allow airsteps and say so in our rules.

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    Re: aerials on the dance floor rules?

    Quote Originally Posted by Andy McGregor View Post
    I have two insurances as a dance teacher. Neither mentions airsteps. However, what we are asked to do is to conduct a risk-assessment. I believe that the risks of airsteps on a social dance floor are unacceptable risks. Therefore I don't allow airsteps and say so in our rules.
    That's what I'd expect (being in the 'risk' business).

    Andy, presumably you make a difference if you were teaching a workshop where you deem the risk to be less since you're controlling it by limiting numbers or giving more direct supervision.

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    Re: aerials on the dance floor rules?

    OK, it seems that it's not going to go away and we can't just leave it
    Quote Originally Posted by Andy McGregor View Post
    I have two insurances as a dance teacher. Neither mentions airsteps. However, what we are asked to do is to conduct a risk-assessment. I believe that the risks of airsteps on a social dance floor are unacceptable risks. Therefore I don't allow airsteps and say so in our rules.
    That Andy, seems a perfectly reasonable approach! You have done an individual risk assessment, based on your locations and dancers, and judged that air steps are an unacceptable risk. Nobody can argue with that, specific judgements on specific locations.

    What would be nice though is a definition, from Ceroc, of what exactly they consider an aerial to be? I hope that all of their crew know the answer, because if they haven't trained their staff on what it is they are supposed to be banning then they have opened themselves up to claims of negligence!

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    Re: aerials on the dance floor rules?

    Quote Originally Posted by David Franklin View Post
    I have (well, I didn't call, I just asked them when I saw them at my venue).

    And he told me the real reason is insurance - it's a condition of their insurance cover.

    I don't know that his answer is true, but I see no reason to doubt it. I think it would be pretty unreasonable to expect Ceroc to provide proof.

    Edit: Thinking about it, I'm not sure if the person concerned really counts as "Ceroc HQ". I'd say he's definitely "inner circle", however.

    This is exactly what i have been told by the cerocmetro franchise owner and i have no reason to doubt his word as it is his business that i crew for nothing else matters conspiratory theories are just that theories all they do is cause trouble

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    Re: aerials on the dance floor rules?

    Quote Originally Posted by Agente Secreto View Post
    Andy, presumably you make a difference if you were teaching a workshop where you deem the risk to be less since you're controlling it by limiting numbers or giving more direct supervision.
    If I ever taught airsteps that would probably be the case. However, I teach people how to dance socially. I believe that the airsteps like the ones you see in airsteps competitions are dangerous on a social dance floor.

    Of course it does all depend on how you define an airstep.

    On the subject of insurance. My insurances are off-the-peg insurances. I had to buy insurance policies that were on offer. I expect that Ceroc are spending enough money to have a dialogue with their insurer and have a bespoke policy written for them. This means their policy is specific to their business. My guess is that they would have to pay more if they permitted airsteps. Of course I'm only guessing as I know nothing about insurance and nothing about the way Ceroc run their business.

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