Resistance is useless! – or is it?

[Moondancer]

Well - you could always take up a collection amongst other local followers to help fund this...

Nah, we could do it on the cheap with hedgeclippers or something.



Actually he seems a perfectly nice guy...

...otherwise I'd suggest doing it with a teaspoon.

[TA Guy]

Granted, It could well be that i was a crap lead in this case, but as i stated, i adjusted all the way down to practically standing on the spot and leading away and back to no avail. All that is irrelevant though as we are talking about the BAD HABIT of constantly rotating, not whether i have a crap lead or not - you say its a valid style, i say it is certainly not and I agree entirely with Andy who says.

WCS does have a slot rule thing, MJ doesn't. Therefore it is perfectly valid to dance MJ in a rotational style.

Whether your follower was dancing in a rotational fashion because she wasn't quite as good as you or whatever is not really relevent, I can only go on what you posted, that a follower was rotating, and you were trying to force her into a slot *shrug*.

Conflicting messages ? Yes, dance is a partnership but No, I don't want to "be the better dancer". I want to have a dance in partnernership with my partner. Do you have a "big book of boll0cks dance rhetoric" you're quoting from ?

I apologise if I sounded a bit pretentious or something, but trying to force your partner to dance in your style is not a partnership IMO.

In this case I was "forcing" into a slot to see if said follower could actually follow, but she couldn't. I am saying that constant rotation is a bad habit because it is...well, constant, and not subject to music, lead, wind direction, or anything useful at all. Would you also say it was a valid "style" if the follower constantly hopped on one leg at right angles to your lead. Would that not be a bit daft?

Well, I don't go to weekenders and see 80% of the dancers dancing in a "hopping on one leg at right ankles" style do I ?
On the other hand, I do see about 80% (or whatever, don't quote me, but a lot alright?) dancing in a rotational style. So that's a bit of a daft comparison.

[Lou]

I will try making my steps much much smaller and see if I can experiment with altering his direction (him rotating round me might be just as sicky). So that would mean not following where he leads me, but going more where I want to go, making him adjust to me.

Pretty much! (Although I shouldn't have said it in a forum where there's so much loose testosterone floating about)! The key is to follow his lead to a smaller extent. It's actually not far off DJB's suggestion for a leader to do closer moves & cross body leads. I think it might help if you were to stay closer to this particular leader & you should be able to do that with the smaller steps.

To be honest though it's not something I experience a huge amount of as I tend to lead a lot more travelling returns than on the spot ones.

I like that tip. As I've said before, I've got a natural tendency to rotate if slots aren't specifically led, and I find travelling returns are so much smoother to dance.

[Filthy Monkey]

Originally Posted by Filthy Monkey
I will try making my steps much much smaller and see if I can experiment with altering his direction (him rotating round me might be just as sicky). So that would mean not following where he leads me, but going more where I want to go, making him adjust to me.

How did that get quoted as me? I didn't write that. I wouldn't waste my time altering my steps or experimenting. I would just kick him until he stopped rotating...

[Dreadful Scathe]

WCS does have a slot rule thing, MJ doesn't. Therefore it is perfectly valid to dance MJ in a rotational style.

Indeed it is.

Whether your follower was dancing in a rotational fashion because she wasn't quite as good as you or whatever is not really relevent, I can only go on what you posted, that a follower was rotating, and you were trying to force her into a slot *shrug*.

Ah then you misunderstood, what i did wasn't relevant - i was trying to see if anything at all would stop the rotation. Nothing did, she was dancing round and round regardless of my lead, the music, the other dancers...anything.

I apologise if I sounded a bit pretentious or something, but trying to force your partner to dance in your style is not a partnership IMO.

I agree totally.

[Lou]

How did that get quoted as me? I didn't write that. I wouldn't waste my time altering my steps or experimenting. I would just kick him until he stopped rotating...

I have no idea! Glitch in the new ForumMatrix I guess!

[Amir]

Either way, I don't fancy saying anything, I'd rather fix it from my side.

Sometimes learning when to say something is 'fixing it from your side.'

I've lost the quote but doing frog jumps from side to side on the tick tock lead...

A tick tock arm sounds more like an attempt to lead swivels like in lindy hop, perhaps worth a try. Less work than frog jumps and you don't have to ribbet.


But in my opinion most things you can do to compensate for 'bad' dancing make you a worse dancer. Also, maybe they have the bad habit from trying to compensate for something you or other people are doing.

Welcome to the endless cycle of increasingly worse dancing.

This can be broken by someone simply being brave and intelligent enough to come up with an elegant way of communicating their discomfort.

How about just saying,

'I'm not sure how I'm meant to respond to the tick tock arm movement you do - any suggestions?' Said with a smile, chewing an orbit (other gums are available) and delivered with a carefree nonchalant air, I can't imagine any major confrontation ensuing.

Failing that, you could always get totally naked.

[Dreadful Scathe]

Failing that, you could always get totally naked.

Yup, that works

[straycat]

Failing that, you could always get totally naked.

Mmm. I always did find the lead for that one a little tricky. Could it be you've cracked it?

[Filthy Monkey]

Totally naked is nice, but I much prefer black stockings.

I just hate shaving my legs...

[Gadget]

Lead A has a violent tick-tock. He jerks his whole forearm from side to side on the beat while he’s holding my hand,...

other than the "tell him" aproach, I would try and go against all conventional advice and techniques of following and forget following the physical signals the lead is giving: go 'noodle arm' and try following visually. It will probably be quite hard to do, and you will probably be a fraction more "behind" the lead, but you shouldn't get hurt and you should be able to enjoy the dance a bit more.
... or you could find that you can't 'see' the lead in the same way you can't feel it. :shrug: something to try at least.

Lead C’s moves rotate me in a continuous one-way circle around him.

As a lead, I would constantly be taking a step right to be in the follower's way: they stop or they collide with me. Not many leads move about the floor as much as I do, so having the dance travel side-ways over the floor is not that unusual for me
I suppose as a follow you could try the reverse of that and attempt to circle the lead anti-clockwise in your movements: there should be a balance point where the angle of your counter-clockwise follow cancels out his clockwise lead and you end up dancing on a straight line.

"Small steps" is good advice, no matter the problem you are trying to fix: taking smaller steps will reduce the effects of most "problems" you encounter... as long as you actually move and 'step' rather than stay in the one place.

With regard to hand hold, fingertip grip, and the pressure in the connection between partners: it should be ballanced. This could be light, it could be stronger. Personally I try to move my partner down a specific "center line" of my lead. The further they stray from my 'ideal' center line, then the firmer my lead is to get them back onto it.
If the follow is giving (what I consider) too much presure in the connection, it feels like they are trying to break out of the line I am leading and I am constantly pushing them back into it; giving constant re-assurance that I am here and that they are going where I want them.
If the follower is responding with the gentlest touch and flowing down the line I lead, then we glide without effort and it is a fantastic dance

[Dreadful Scathe]

As a lead, I would constantly be taking a step right to be in the follower's way: they stop or they collide with me.

For my particular scenario mentioned earlier, it wouldn't have worked, it was a fast song and a constant rotation the follower was going for. I could have stopped leading just to get in front of them but then Im just colliding for no valid dance reason. Sitting down would be preferable

I suppose as a follow you could try the reverse of that and attempt to circle the lead anti-clockwise in your movements: there should be a balance point where the angle of your counter-clockwise follow cancels out his clockwise lead and you end up dancing on a straight line.

No, it didnt work

"Small steps" is good advice, no matter the problem you are trying to fix: taking smaller steps will reduce the effects of most "problems" you encounter

If someone is ignoring you despite your best efforts, theres not much you can do

[Moondancer]

A tick tock arm sounds more like an attempt to lead swivels like in lindy hop, perhaps worth a try. Less work than frog jumps and you don't have to ribbet.

...snip...

How about just saying,

'I'm not sure how I'm meant to respond to the tick tock arm movement you do - any suggestions?'

...snip...

Failing that, you could always get totally naked.

The tick tock is vertical, exactly like an old-fashioned metronome, not side to side like a prep. Unfortunately I have been successfully dancing with this chap on and off (without ribbeting) since I started dancing, so he knows I know how to follow him, also he is very predictable so in fact I am only ever being cued to jump to the left, jump to the right, or turn [this is beginning to sound like we are doing the timewarp, no?] He mainly only does about three spin-based moves so isn't too hard to follow, though I don't particularly mind the limited repertoire because I get some extended spin practice.

Getting naked/black stockings etc....hm.... well, that is certainly one option, but if I'm looking for absolute attention like that I'd rather aim at someone else

Gadget, I've tried going 'noodle arm' but he gripped more tightly. I've tried going firmer and slightly resisting being tick tocked, but he gripped more tightly. So I gave up and called for help on the forum! I mean I can cope with dancing with Mr Metronome, Mr Getting A Bit That Way Too and Mr Roundabout, these aren't major problems, but I thought it would be neat to find a clever unilateral fix.


P.S. I think we need a 'get naked' smiley.

[robd]

P.S. I think we need a 'get naked' smiley.

We have one well suited to the thought of most forumites (myself included ) getting naked - it's the :vomiting: , I mean one.

[Moondancer]

We have one well suited to the thought of most forumites (myself included ) getting naked - it's the :vomiting: , I mean one.

Yes, I nearly used that one when describing my reaction to being danced in a circle, but I don't lick my lips after vomiting.

The PMSL smiley has black legs, so surely it would be possible to make a 'get naked except for stockings' smiley - you'd just need to make the giggle zone yellow.

[David Bailey]

No. The women I'm thinking of who do that (stepping several feet to your right/their left during returns) all go to the same class. Only when dancing with ladies from that particular class do I tend to end up with my partner on my right at the end of a basic first move, which suggests that it's not my fault.

I've encountered a few auto-rotators. I'll either go with it, or not, depending on the circumstances.

But I've never (well, not in the past 5 years) encountered an auto-rotator than I couldn't compensate for if I needed to, without having to wrestle them.

As I said, it's impossible for someone to auto-rotate in a cross-body lead. Tango-style moves will also avoid rotation, as (I imagine) will WCS-style moves.

[David Bailey]

They've been doing this since I started as a beginner, so it would seem rude to say something now. But if I'd said something back then it would have been rude coming from an inexperienced beginner... I'm too polite. Or not brave enough. Or both!

Yeah, but you know "tell them" is the only real answer, don't you? Followers have very few in-dance control mechanisms available.

Either way, I don't fancy saying anything, I'd rather fix it from my side. And surely, learning how to compensate for my partner's dance style in order to achieve a better dance for us both would be part of improving my own dancing?

To a point - but to be honest, you'd have to be a superb follower to be able to achieve that level of control within the dance as a follower (Lily / CeeCee level), simply because it's so much harder to do that as a follower.

So, your choices effectively are:
- Live with it
- Don't dance with them
- Talk to them about it

[David Bailey]

So we should all grip and hug to an inch of our lives?

Sigh.

Tell you what, come back and discuss this in 5 years time, OK? Because based on what you're saying, you're either willfully misunderstanding the whole concept of "communication through touch", or you're simply not ready to learn ithat concept.

Yes, I'm well aware that I'm a language pedant..

Me too

[Steven666]

Sigh.

Tell you what, come back and discuss this in 5 years time, OK? Because based on what you're saying, you're either willfully misunderstanding the whole concept of "communication through touch", or you're simply not ready to learn ithat concept.



Me too

Can you not detect sarcasm. Do I miss off 's?

[Moondancer]

Yeah, but you know "tell them" is the only real answer, don't you?

...snip...

So, your choices effectively are:
- Live with it
- Don't dance with them
- Talk to them about it

OK, then my solution is going to be:

• Live with it because I don't like upsetting people and I don't think people who been dancing far longer than me would want any feedback from me
• Take smaller steps and see what I can achieve that way
• Have a damn good giggle about it!

Oh, a new one I came across last night during the freestyle - a guy (nice dancer incidentally) who squeezes the beat out on your hand! Not painful, just...odd!


Chris B, you are lovely to dance with, have no discernable funny habits, and I would certainly tell you!