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Thread: Resistance is useless! – or is it?

  1. #81
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    Re: Resistance is useless! – or is it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Moondancer View Post
    OK, then my solution is going to be:
    • Live with it because I don't like upsetting people and I don't think people who been dancing far longer than me would want any feedback from me
    • Take smaller steps and see what I can achieve that way
    • Have a damn good giggle about it!

    Oh, a new one I came across last night during the freestyle - a guy (nice dancer incidentally) who squeezes the beat out on your hand! Not painful, just...odd!


    Chris B, you are lovely to dance with, have no discernable funny habits, and I would certainly tell you!
    Ditto. And I know your confidence isn't what it was of late but it ought to be because you're following as nice as ever Maybe we'll try a slotted dance tonight - but only if you'll point out these leads to me

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    Re: Resistance is useless! – or is it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Amir View Post
    Sometimes learning when to say something is 'fixing it from your side.' ...
    We need a "Quotes of the month" thread.

    ... But in my opinion most things you can do to compensate for 'bad' dancing make you a worse dancer. Also, maybe they have the bad habit from trying to compensate for something you or other people are doing.

    Welcome to the endless cycle of increasingly worse dancing.
    If a follower is doing her own thing I usually try to learn from it and adapt to it before I try to fix it. Often that leads to a short period of confusion before I try and fix it. Occasionally it leads to a magic dance, though not really MJ. Fixing it usually involves lots of both arm moves.
    ...Failing that, you could always get totally naked...
    This definitely would get my partner moving in a straight line.

    :judge smiley: "But, your Honour, she definitely said "I am a beginner, please bare with me."

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    Re: Resistance is useless! – or is it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Moondancer View Post
    OK, then my solution is going to be:
    • Live with it because I don't like upsetting people and I don't think people who been dancing far longer than me would want any feedback from me
    • Take smaller steps and see what I can achieve that way
    • Have a damn good giggle about it!
    If I were the leader you're referring to, I know that I'd rather experience being given feedback than being giggled about - what about you?

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    Re: Resistance is useless! – or is it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Moondancer View Post
    OK, then my solution is going to be:
    Live with it because I don't like upsetting people and I don't think people who been dancing far longer than me would want any feedback from me
    Hmmm.

    Whilst no-one likes criticism, done well it can be very effective - in fact, it's the only way a lot of us progress. Sometimes that criticism is unfounded, but I also would much prefer criticism to being laughed at behind my back / being called Mr Tick-Tock / whatever.

    Basically, it looks like most of the consensus advice on this thread boils down to "discuss it with them".

    I reckon you knew that already though, and were looking for an alternative.

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    Re: Resistance is useless! – or is it?

    Quote Originally Posted by David Bailey View Post
    Hmmm.

    Whilst no-one likes criticism, done well it can be very effective - in fact, it's the only way a lot of us progress. Sometimes that criticism is unfounded, but I also would much prefer criticism to being laughed at behind my back / being called Mr Tick-Tock / whatever.

    Basically, it looks like most of the consensus advice on this thread boils down to "discuss it with them".

    I reckon you knew that already though, and were looking for an alternative.
    It’s easy to say “approach them”, but not so easy to do it. If I knew someone well enough then I would just tell them, which is why I put that note on to ChrisB - since he asked me which one of the three leads he was! No Chris, I really would tell you!

    I think if I approached a lead (who I barely know) with unsolicited feedback, he would think I was a jumped-up little nobody who only started comparatively recently and was telling him, with his years of experience, how to suck eggs. And since I'm far from perfect myself, it would be a fair point - who am I to start telling people how to dance? So if I wanted to take that route I probably wouldn't have needed to ask this forum's advice. I suppose if I knew the person was a forumite and I had a problem then I might post something in the hope that it would ring a bell with them.

    Realistically, if this guy was interested in improving then wouldn't he have learned more than 6 moves in ?how many years? I don't think he even does the class. That doesn’t scream “Give me feedback so I can progress” to me. Also, he is dancing with people every week, as he presumably has been doing for that length of time, so either no-one else has noticed (unlikely) or no-one has said anything for the same reasons I don't want to (very likely) or someone has said something/he already knows and he doesn't care anyway or he just likes doing it his way (possible).

    I do want to make progress, but TBH I don’t feel I want feedback from just anyone. For starters I don’t want it from someone who isn’t any good themselves, and that can be quite subjective, can’t it? I try to be polite to anyone who offers it, but whether I think that advice is worthwhile varies according to how I rate the donor!

    As far as the giggle is concerned, well I'm sorry if the idea of follows having a giggle about their leads upsets anyone, but isn’t that fairly universal, and doesn’t it happen in the rest of life too? Followers aren't necessarily laughing at people they name (well, sometimes we are) so much as finding a convenient label. Don't leads name the followers? I can't believe they don't! I’m not sure I want to know my label though…


    Chris, you’re so right about my lack of confidence in my following since going to Swingmasters, but hopefully another evening will buck me up a bit before next Friday. I am not telling you who all three of them are, but I’ll point you in the general direction of one and see if you spot him yourself. Does that earn me a slotted dance?

  6. #86
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    Re: Resistance is useless! – or is it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Moondancer View Post
    It’s easy to say “approach them”, but not so easy to do it.
    Hey, I never said it was easy. Feedback is always tricky. There's a right and a wrong way to do it, of course.

    Quote Originally Posted by Moondancer View Post
    I think if I approached a lead (who I barely know) with unsolicited feedback, he would think I was a jumped-up little nobody who only started comparatively recently and was telling him, with his years of experience, how to suck eggs.
    Possibly. But then, you cared enough about it to start a thread on it... I assumed this was something that bugged you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Moondancer View Post
    Realistically, if this guy was interested in improving then wouldn't he have learned more than 6 moves in ?how many years? I don't think he even does the class.
    If he's really that bad, why dance with him? - is the standard really that low at your local venue?

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    Re: Resistance is useless! – or is it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tessalicious View Post
    If I were the leader you're referring to, I know that I'd rather experience being given feedback than being giggled about - what about you?
    I don't think that Moondancer was talking about giggling about the chap, I think that she is more likely talking about being amused by her own dancing and wishing to improve the dances that she haves with others. Her opening post talked about improving her own dancing and I believe she was also looking for some reassurance that she wasn't causing the problem.

    I know that as a follower I think that learning to adapt to a leader's style is, I think, one way of making me a more competent dancer and hopefully makes it a more enjoyable dance for both dancers.

    I am sure that is why leaders change their moves according to the ability of their partner to follow.

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    Re: Resistance is useless! – or is it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Moondancer View Post
    Realistically, if this guy was interested in improving then wouldn't he have learned more than 6 moves in ?how many years?
    But is being a good leader all about knowing lots of moves...?

    There are lots of posts on here from followers that say that it isn't.
    Love dance, will travel

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    Re: Resistance is useless! – or is it?

    ...but I'm pretty sure they all set their expectations, however low, slightly higher than six!

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    Re: Resistance is useless! – or is it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Filthy Monkey View Post
    ...but I'm pretty sure they all set their expectations, however low, slightly higher than six!
    Can't resist quoting from a really old thread...
    Quote Originally Posted by MartinHarper View Post
    If you restricted yourself to just five different moves for a whole night's dancing, which five would you choose?
    Quote Originally Posted by DavidB View Post
    Stepping back
    Stepping forward
    Twisting
    Spinning
    Turning

    (Of course all this is for the ladies - for me it is standing, standing, standing, standing and standing.)
    Love dance, will travel

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    Re: Resistance is useless! – or is it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Moondancer View Post
    Gadget, I've tried going 'noodle arm' but he gripped more tightly. I've tried going firmer and slightly resisting being tick tocked, but he gripped more tightly.
    hmmmm... trying to think on what I do with "overly" bouncy followers...

    Normally I can muscle my way through the bounce, but that's not really an option for a follower. I have only encountered a couple of dancers that I couldn't 'tame'; for those I went the opposite direction and tried to match the bounce perfectly with my own bounce: they were no longer taking my hand with theirs on every bounce, I was moving with them and applying my lead ontop of the bounce. Unfortunatly I think you may find that the person doing the bounce may not be exactly in time with the "bounce" you hear in music. This makes it a lot harder to synchronise with your partner.

    If the dancer is experienced, if they enjoy the night and are happy on the dance floor, I wouldn't offer any unsolicited feedback: It's about having fun. {And now all the southerners stomp their foot, pout and pipe up "Why should I let them spoil my fun!" }


    With regard to moves - I think that dancing is about movement, not moves. The moves provide you with positions to move between - how you do it (and more subtaly when you do it) makes a good dancer. Knowing lots of moves and moving the same way between them makes an experianced, but {IMHO} not very good dancer.

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    Re: Resistance is useless! – or is it?

    Quote Originally Posted by David Bailey View Post
    Hey, I never said it was easy. Feedback is always tricky. There's a right and a wrong way to do it, of course.
    And I'd hate to get it wrong.

    Quote Originally Posted by David Bailey View Post
    .. you cared enough about it to start a thread on it... I assumed this was something that bugged you.

    If he's really that bad, why dance with him? - is the standard really that low at your local venue?
    Well, it bugs me in that I want to improve my own dancing. And I want to dance with a variety of leads, not just the good ones, partly for my own reasons of wanting to get more varied following experience, and partly because I feel jiving is a social activity and I think dancing with people who wouldn't necessarily be my first choice of lead is part and parcel of being a friendly class member.

    Generally speaking, some people I dance with because they challenge me, some because I know I'll have a lovely dance, or a funny dance, some because I want to dance and my preferred leads are already nabbed but some just because I like dancing with friends. And I don't intend to pick my friends based on how good their dancing is.


    Quote Originally Posted by Jan in Notts View Post
    I don't think that Moondancer was talking about giggling about the chap, I think that she is more likely talking about being amused by her own dancing and wishing to improve the dances that she haves with others. Her opening post talked about improving her own dancing and I believe she was also looking for some reassurance that she wasn't causing the problem.

    I know that as a follower I think that learning to adapt to a leader's style is, I think, one way of making me a more competent dancer and hopefully makes it a more enjoyable dance for both dancers.

    I am sure that is why leaders change their moves according to the ability of their partner to follow.
    Spot on.


    Quote Originally Posted by Filthy Monkey View Post
    ...but I'm pretty sure they all set their expectations, however low, slightly higher than six!
    Oh, did I say he did six different moves in the same dance? My mistake!

  13. #93
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    Re: Resistance is useless! – or is it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Moondancer View Post
    Well, it bugs me in that I want to improve my own dancing.
    Yeah, but this isn't a problem with your dancing, it's a problem with your partner's dancing. There's very little you can do, in terms of your own dancing, to fix this.

    And as Amir said, if you try too hard to "fix it", you may actually make your own dancing worse.

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    Re: Resistance is useless! – or is it?

    Quote Originally Posted by David Bailey View Post
    Yeah, but this isn't a problem with your dancing, it's a problem with your partner's dancing. There's very little you can do, in terms of your own dancing, to fix this.

    And as Amir said, if you try too hard to "fix it", you may actually make your own dancing worse.
    Well, people have told me that now, but I wasn't sure if it was me when I asked for advice on the forum.

    Originally it bugged me in that I didn't like the tick-tock effect but I especially didn't like it if it was my fault it was happening. If it isn't me then it still bugs me to some extent but much less; I can live with other people's dance faults better than my own - if I know I've got a horrid fault then I'm fretting because I want to fix it. If it's someone else's fault then it isn't my problem to fix and I won't fret about it, nor will I be worrying that I'm going to 'infect' other leads who I currently get nice smooth dances with.

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