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Thread: Gary Glitter - does he deserve it

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    Registered User Twirly's Avatar
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    Re: Gary Glitter - does he deserve it

    I was wondering this morning if the concern over GG and his release and return is worse than in the case of other paedophiles? He’s obviously quite scared – not just that he won’t be able to get up to no good, he’s probably scared for his own safety.

    I wonder if his former status as a pop star and someone people might’ve once admired/looked up to is making the reaction to his crimes worse? After all, if you were once a Glitter fan, went to his concerts and bought his records, chanted along at those concerts, might it not be making some of these people quite queasy? And hence the backlash is likely to be even worse than for Joe Bloggs, who’s known to no-one other than his family and friends. After all, I’m sure that GG is not the first British citizen to be locked up in Vietnam, Thailand, etc, for such offences, and I’m sure that he won’t be the last.

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    Re: Gary Glitter - does he deserve it

    Quote Originally Posted by Baruch View Post
    As a male primary school teacher myself, I find that EXTREMELY offensive. We have enough crap to put up with as it is - we have to be extra-careful in how we are seen to be dealing with children, whereas female teachers don't have to because they are much less likely to be accused of kiddy fiddling. Oh, and it only takes one unfounded allegation from a child or parent with an axe to grind to ruin a career and a life, even if it is proven to be false. Mud sticks.


    Exactly. I enjoy teaching, but I'm heartily sick of all the extra precautions I have to take just because I'm a man and thus an easier target for malicious allegations. The world has gone mad. If I'd known before I did my teacher training what I know now, I'd have gone into some other line of work where my motives wouldn't be called into question by tabloid readers.


    And thus the vast majority of us, who are law-abiding and only want the best for the children in our care, are tarred with the same brush as a tiny minority of perverts (that exists in all walks of life) by the ignorant and the mob-minded.
    Quoted from previous post number 27 - [quote=Astro;494246] "I personally have male friends who are teachers.


    On the other hand, you get teenage girls who have crushes on male teachers and make false allegations against them. They may even be convicted falsely.

    Apologies to the vast majority of teachers who care about children. "[quote]

    Baruch, I agree with your post.
    One of my male teacher friends said that teachers are not allowed to touch a pupil full stop, due to laying themselves open to charges of pure physical violence.

    This goes back to when schools carried out corporal punishment.
    The cane, slipper, ruler, over the knee, shaking etc.,
    This was banned in the 1980's was it?

    Recently there was a new law, or they were thinking of one where teachers are now allowed to physically restrain pupils.

    This was due to teachers suffering violence from pupils and been unable to defend themselves or to break up fights between pupils.

    Perhaps you could clear this up and state the facts, as to what the new rules are?

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    Formerly known as DavidJames David Bailey's Avatar
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    Re: Gary Glitter - does he deserve it

    Quote Originally Posted by rubyred View Post
    Reality check.... it's not about just two consenting young people wanting to have sex together, what if the 15yr old has alleged she/he was raped or to preform things she/he didn't give her consent for, that's the difference.
    Sure - but that's a different case - I didn't talk about nonconsensual sex in my example.

    Quote Originally Posted by rubyred View Post
    I have found that generally people approach this matter in a realistic and sensible way, of course there are always exceptions.
    See, that's exactly the problem - we have to rely on people being realistic and sensible. Which from a legal point of view is scary. All it takes is one social services nutter (e.g. loony Fundamenalist Christian) to abuse such power and damage the life of a 16-year-old kid.

    And media hysteria makes "being realistic and sensible" so much harder.

    Which was my original point.

  4. #104
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    Re: Gary Glitter - does he deserve it

    Quote Originally Posted by Twirly View Post
    After all, if you were once a Glitter fan, went to his concerts and bought his records, chanted along at those concerts, might it not be making some of these people quite queasy? And hence the backlash is likely to be even worse than for Joe Bloggs, who’s known to no-one other than his family and friends.
    What make me queasy is that bit in the otherwise-excellent Sliding Doors where the Gwynneth Paltrow character has a speech about how much she fancied GG when she was a kid

    Quote Originally Posted by Twirly View Post
    After all, I’m sure that GG is not the first British citizen to be locked up in Vietnam, Thailand, etc, for such offences, and I’m sure that he won’t be the last.
    Absolutely. I'm also astonished that several no-doubt-busy police officers from a specialist child unit had to spend their time hanging around an airport waiting to - basically - tell him something he must have already known.

    Don't they have better things to do with their time?

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    Re: Gary Glitter - does he deserve it

    Quote Originally Posted by Twirly View Post
    not just that he won’t be able to get up to no good, he’s probably scared for his own safety.
    And probably with good reason, yet this is civilisation ? hmm

    I wonder if his former status as a pop star and someone people might’ve once admired/looked up to is making the reaction to his crimes worse? After all, if you were once a Glitter fan, went to his concerts and bought his records, chanted along at those concerts, might it not be making some of these people quite queasy? And hence the backlash is likely to be even worse than for Joe Bloggs, who’s known to no-one other than his family and friends. After all, I’m sure that GG is not the first British citizen to be locked up in Vietnam, Thailand, etc, for such offences, and I’m sure that he won’t be the last.
    Being known means you are less likely to be able to hide. The news media are in the business of selling papers so whilst John Smiths conviction, release and deportation back here won't sell papers - Glitters will. It's unfair, but thats life.

    This is second hand as i never saw it, but in the program "100 best hits of all time" or whatever it was called, apparantly they did not show a Gary Glitter song for, and i quote, "obvious reasons" but were quite happy to show Michael Jackson. So, perhaps the degree of celebrity protects you somewhat. If MJ is slightly more mad and a lot more famous, that's ok then. I also don't understand how a criminal past has anything to do with whether you had a hit song or not just show them all surely. Bet there was a George Michael one in there too

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    Re: Gary Glitter - does he deserve it

    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadful Scathe View Post
    This is second hand as i never saw it, but in the program "100 best hits of all time" or whatever it was called, apparantly they did not show a Gary Glitter song for, and i quote, "obvious reasons" but were quite happy to show Michael Jackson. So, perhaps the degree of celebrity protects you somewhat. If MJ is slightly more mad and a lot more famous, that's ok then. I also don't understand how a criminal past has anything to do with whether you had a hit song or not just show them all surely. Bet there was a George Michael one in there too
    Thyen again MJ was only ever accused of something and never found guilty, bit like Barrymore.

    If nothing else though they all (MJ, Barrymore, GG etc) have one thing in common. Some brilliant jokes.

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    Registered User Twirly's Avatar
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    Re: Gary Glitter - does he deserve it

    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadful Scathe View Post
    And probably with good reason, yet this is civilisation ? hmm



    Being known means you are less likely to be able to hide. The news media are in the business of selling papers so whilst John Smiths conviction, release and deportation back here won't sell papers - Glitters will. It's unfair, but thats life.

    This is second hand as i never saw it, but in the program "100 best hits of all time" or whatever it was called, apparantly they did not show a Gary Glitter song for, and i quote, "obvious reasons" but were quite happy to show Michael Jackson. So, perhaps the degree of celebrity protects you somewhat. If MJ is slightly more mad and a lot more famous, that's ok then. I also don't understand how a criminal past has anything to do with whether you had a hit song or not just show them all surely. Bet there was a George Michael one in there too
    It wasn’t actually his fame that I was thinking about, I took the risks that gives him for granted.

    I wonder if the backlash against him will be harder due to the fact that people once admired a man who has turned out to be a paedophile. Although there is no way anyone could have known back then, I think it’ll make people feel more uncomfortable. And reminding people of how they once adored GG was probably why he was excluded from the 100 hits show. Plus the issue no doubt of having to pay him royalties…

    As for comparing him with MJ – was MJ actually convicted of anything? I don’t think so. So maybe less of a case of fame protecting him and more a case of having sufficient money to pay someone off?

    And George Michael – well who was the actual victim there?

  8. #108
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    Re: Gary Glitter - does he deserve it

    Quote Originally Posted by David Bailey View Post

    See, that's exactly the problem - we have to rely on people being realistic and sensible. Which from a legal point of view is scary.

    Which was my original point.
    Sorry I should have been more specific and explained that no decisions are made in isolation, and cases are subjected to a multidiscplinary stratergy meetings, a Multiagency risk and assessement conference , CID investigations and then the CPS plus the Judge, so it is not just left up to individuals and their perspectives about what is realistic and sensible.
    Last edited by rubyred; 22nd-August-2008 at 02:28 PM.
    if you love the life you live then you'll get a lot more done

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    Re: Gary Glitter - does he deserve it

    Hang on lets not bring George Michael into a pedo conversation.

    His sexuallity is his business.

    DTS XXX XXX

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    Re: Gary Glitter - does he deserve it

    Quote Originally Posted by Lee Bartholomew View Post
    Thyen again MJ was only ever accused of something and never found guilty, bit like Barrymore.
    Oh yes, or like OJ Simpson. I guess it depends on the quality of lawyer you get.

    Not that I'm implying OJ Simpson ever did anything wrong of course.

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    Re: Gary Glitter - does he deserve it

    Quote Originally Posted by Astro View Post

    This goes back to when schools carried out corporal punishment.
    The cane, slipper, ruler, over the knee, shaking etc.,
    This was banned in the 1980's was it?

    In 1981 a message went around our school that all slippers,rulers canes etc were no longer to be used by individual teachers. I remember one dogy teacher kept missing your back side and hitting top of your legs which i was told hurt more. I was canned for fighting my brother for wearing a football scarf ,caught by the head master on the way off the school premises. Brother was 16 he also caned a 11 year old for same offence

    To be fair my brother got 6 of the best the 11yr old 2 . Could you image now caning a 11yr old for wearing a football scarf on the way home from school

    Anyway by 1981 any canning could only been done by head master and the two deputies (it was a big school) and recorded in a book

    Some said the cane was worse then the slipper but it depended who did it. One guy got hit with a slipper very hard 4 times infront of everyone by a sports teacher. He wondered off crying and teacher looked a bit preplex

    I was in a fight with a guy (aged 14) and the music teacher (big bloke) pulled me and him down two flights of stairs by our hair.

    Clumbs of my hair were falling out two days later

    Happy times

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    Re: Gary Glitter - does he deserve it

    Quote Originally Posted by Trouble View Post
    They will do anything to get them and are NOT curable.
    Actually, that's a myth. I was listening to a radio programme and someone who works with convicted paedophiles estimated that less than 10% of them failed to respond to appropriate treatment (counselling, therapy, etc.)

    Before anyone has a fit that doesn't mean we should let them all work with children once they are released.

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    Re: Gary Glitter - does he deserve it

    In the infants there was a vicious woman teacher.

    I had to hold my palm out while she hit it with a ruler.

    She'd hit so hard that her bun would dislodge and her hair fall down.


    In the juniors I would be put over the Headmaster's knee. He would lift my dress up to expose my knickers, then spank my bottom.

    Quite pervy come to think of it. - it was in front of the other kids though, not private.

    Plus he wouldn't stop till you cried.

    He would shake the boys hard by their shoulders till their feet were off the floor.


    At Secondary school I was never punished.

    But the boys got the cane. One physics teacher broke a boy's thumb. I Iwitnessed that. The boy in question lived in a children's home so I suppose the teacher got away with it. I remember now he was an alcoholic and used to stink of alcoholic breathe fumes. He was drunk at the time.

    The girls got the slipper from this dragon who was head of the girls.
    Last edited by Astro; 22nd-August-2008 at 03:54 PM.

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    Re: Gary Glitter - does he deserve it

    Quote Originally Posted by Trouble View Post
    DJ im surprised at you. Dont tell me you actually believe that bollox which is what it is. These bloody surveys are all absolute tosh and thats putting it mildly. I mean for goodness sakes...
    What you read in the newspapers and see on the TV and talk about with your friends is probably not a more accurate guide to the state of crime in this country than reported statistics and proper research.

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    Re: Gary Glitter - does he deserve it

    Quote Originally Posted by stewart38 View Post
    Any link to support this ???
    Come on Stewart, if you want to see girls in their underwear just google it...

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    Re: Gary Glitter - does he deserve it

    Quote Originally Posted by Lee Bartholomew View Post
    At least it's not all been bad news. Rebecca Adlington, Chris Hoy, Ben Ainslie: it's great to see all these Brits medalling at the Olympics.
    Medalling? Is that like 'fiddling'? Hadn't heard anything like that about these people.

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    Re: Gary Glitter - does he deserve it

    Quote Originally Posted by Lee Bartholomew View Post
    Thyen again MJ was only ever accused of something and never found guilty, bit like Barrymore.
    Ethel? Lionel? Drew? A breathless world awaits...

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    Re: Gary Glitter - does he deserve it

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry Shnikov View Post
    Actually, that's a myth. I was listening to a radio programme and someone who works with convicted paedophiles estimated that less than 10% of them failed to respond to appropriate treatment (counselling, therapy, etc.).
    So is it seen as a "choice" thing then, rather than a genetic predisposition?

    To be honest, it's quite scary either way...

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    Re: Gary Glitter - does he deserve it

    Quote Originally Posted by Astro View Post
    One of my male teacher friends said that teachers are not allowed to touch a pupil full stop, due to laying themselves open to charges of pure physical violence.
    That's probably school policy based on common sense. It's not law, but it's a sensible way of covering their backsides, so to speak.

    Quote Originally Posted by Astro View Post
    Recently there was a new law, or they were thinking of one where teachers are now allowed to physically restrain pupils.

    This was due to teachers suffering violence from pupils and been unable to defend themselves or to break up fights between pupils.

    Perhaps you could clear this up and state the facts, as to what the new rules are?
    We are, and always have been, allowed to physically restrain pupils, but only for specific reasons (e.g. preventing the child from harming him/herself or someone else, preventing him/her committing a crime) and only with the minimum necessary force. As I used to teach in a special unit for children with emotional and behavioural difficulties, some of whom had violent tendencies, I have had several lots of training in physical restraint techniques, and have had to use them many times. The important thing to remember, which was repeatedly impressed on us during training, is that these techniques are always the last resort, never the first.

    So yes, physical restraint is legal and sometimes necessary, but at other times not touching the children is a sensible precaution (unfortunately - I wish it wasn't necessary to have such guidelines, but such is the world in which we live).

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    Re: Gary Glitter - does he deserve it

    Quote Originally Posted by dave the scaffolder View Post
    His sexuallity is his business.
    It was his illegal behaviour I was talking about not his sexuality
    Newspapers are steered entirely by whatever sense of outrage will sell them more papers.

    Quote Originally Posted by Twirly View Post
    As for comparing him with MJ – was MJ actually convicted of anything? I don’t think so. So maybe less of a case of fame protecting him and more a case of having sufficient money to pay someone off?

    Not really, Michael Barrymore has not had such a good time in the press and he has not been found guilty of anything either. MJ's accusations and very odd behaviour could be publicised more as they are all true - is it because he is simply more popular.

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