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Thread: WSM Comp - Back to Basics

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    Not a spoon! Lou's Avatar
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    WSM Comp - Back to Basics

    I assumed the Back to Basics competition was going to be just like CerocX. But I was wrong.

    I happened to be looking at the rules tonight, and I'm baffled by some of the moves! It looks like Sherif's been raiding the Ceroc Australia syllabus.

    The permitted moves which can be danced in this category are:
    CJ (Walk), Accordion, Accordion Spin, First Move Check, Pull through, Neck Break-through, I-turn U-turn, First Move Hook, Blind Break-through, Wellington Return, Sway, Catapult, Loophole (Octopus), Basket, Shoulder Pass, Man Break-through (Change places), First Move, Yo-Yo, Aerial Yo-Yo, Lady Spin, Underarm Walk-Through, American Spin, Throwaway, First Move Man Turn, Neck Break, Comb, 1/2-Windmill, Windmill, First Move Flick Spin, Kiwi Comb, Clever, First Move Lunge, Push Pulls (Arm Jive), Push Pull Push Spin, Octopus, Swizzle Stick, Pretzel, Back Pass, Conan (Arch), Left to Right Hand Pass, Figure of 8, Hip Spin, Wurlitzer, First Move Stop Spin
    What's a CJ? I remember dancing it many years ago in a class with Nicky Haslett, but can I remember what it was? It's driving me mad!

    I thought an I-turn You-Turn was another term for a Figure of 8, but Figure of 8 is listed separately, so I must be mistaken. What's the difference?

    And a Clever? Is that a Cleaver? And if so, is it the 2-handed Ceroc Cleaver, or the old style LeRoc Cleaver that's a variation on a R-R Return? They are 2 completely different moves.

    Ceroc X is a fab idea, allowing competitors to make the best of a limited set of moves. What's the point of Back To Basics? There's more moves in there than the majority of men put into a standard freestyle dance!

    (p.s. I'm not entering. A pal called me tonight to see if I could help identify some of the more obscure moves. As you can see I was somewhat stumped at some. Anyway, good luck to everyone competing and judging!)

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    Registered User NZ Monkey's Avatar
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    Re: WSM Comp - Back to Basics

    Quote Originally Posted by Lou View Post
    What's a CJ? I remember dancing it many years ago in a class with Nicky Haslett, but can I remember what it was? It's driving me mad!
    If memory serves it’s when the man brings the lady to his right hand side (just like the start of a first move) and then walks around her, pivoting her on one foot. There are about as many stylistic variations as there are dancers, but that’s the essence of the move.

    As to the rest, I’m not entirely sure. I know most of those moves, but with some of them I’m just assuming that it is the move I know based on what the name suggests to me. Unfortunately the Clever is one I don’t know (or at least by that name… as it isn’t a terribly descriptive title).

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    Re: WSM Comp - Back to Basics

    Quote Originally Posted by Lou View Post
    I assumed the Back to Basics competition was going to be just like CerocX. But I was wrong.

    I happened to be looking at the rules tonight, and I'm baffled by some of the moves! It looks like Sherif's been raiding the Ceroc Australia syllabus.



    What's a CJ? I remember dancing it many years ago in a class with Nicky Haslett, but can I remember what it was? It's driving me mad!
    You're right about seeing CJs with Nicky Haslam, it's shown on one of her videos.

    Ist move start, guys left foot over right, girls right foot over left, guys right foot over left, girls left foot over right - travelling to the guys left with hips swivelling, as many times as you like but I do it to 8 counts. Nice move if it's done right, good laughs all round if it's not

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    Registered User Baruch's Avatar
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    Re: WSM Comp - Back to Basics

    Quote Originally Posted by Lou View Post
    Ceroc X is a fab idea, allowing competitors to make the best of a limited set of moves. What's the point of Back To Basics? There's more moves in there than the majority of men put into a standard freestyle dance!
    The Ceroc-X idea works because in Ceroc, the beginner moves and their names are standardised and most people who have had any contact with Ceroc should have a pretty good idea of what is required.

    IMO Sherif's Back to basics category, on the other hand, has too many permitted moves. If you're going to restrict the moves dancers can do, it should be a more manageable list than the one you quoted. Also, perhaps descriptions of the moves would help in the absence of standardised move names. Or he could just nick the Ceroc-X move list and add one or two of his own, of course.

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    Re: WSM Comp - Back to Basics

    Quote Originally Posted by Lou View Post
    I thought an I-turn You-Turn was another term for a Figure of 8, but Figure of 8 is listed separately, so I must be mistaken. What's the difference?
    I-turn U-turn = return the girl, leave hand high, guy's fingertips point to the ceiling, guy turns to the right under his own arm, flatten palm, top-turn the girl, then finish with another return of the girl. Describing moves in words is tricky!
    And a Clever? Is that a Cleaver? And if so, is it the 2-handed Ceroc Cleaver, or the old style LeRoc Cleaver that's a variation on a R-R Return? They are 2 completely different moves.
    Yes, "cleaver", and yes, probably the "old style LeRoc" thing (in that it is definitely a variation on a R-R Return).

    PS, Haslam, not Haslett.

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    Registered User ~*~Saligal~*~'s Avatar
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    Re: WSM Comp - Back to Basics

    Quote Originally Posted by Lou View Post
    *snip*What's a CJ? I remember dancing it many years ago in a class with Nicky Haslett, but can I remember what it was? It's driving me mad!*snip*
    A CJ is similar to the "promenade walks" in jive (or east coast swing) - except that the guy also does the swivel steps. The below description was "borrowed" from a ballroom jive website:

    In semi-closed position, step forward on the lead foot and lead the woman to swivel just a little LF, -, fwd on trail feet and woman swivels RF, -; With each step, she turns her knee in a little and steps one step in front of the other. With your frame, you are rotating her just a little: left, right, left, right. Both could swivel: in, out, in, out. You could do this figure in open position.

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    Registered User Baruch's Avatar
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    Re: WSM Comp - Back to Basics

    Quote Originally Posted by Lou View Post
    What's a CJ?
    Kilts and rubber gimp suits come to mind

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    Re: WSM Comp - Back to Basics

    Quote Originally Posted by Gary View Post
    PS, Haslam, not Haslett.
    I knew that really. I was just distracted. Sorry!

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    Re: WSM Comp - Back to Basics

    Thanks to everyone who described the CJ. I can visualise it now - particularly after Brian's description. It had been driving me mad!

    Quote Originally Posted by Baruch View Post
    The Ceroc-X idea works because in Ceroc, the beginner moves and their names are standardised and most people who have had any contact with Ceroc should have a pretty good idea of what is required.

    IMO Sherif's Back to basics category, on the other hand, has too many permitted moves. If you're going to restrict the moves dancers can do, it should be a more manageable list than the one you quoted. Also, perhaps descriptions of the moves would help in the absence of standardised move names. Or he could just nick the Ceroc-X move list and add one or two of his own, of course.
    I couldn't agree more. There are far too many moves listed - and I challenge the judges to watch all competing couples and spot moves that aren't on the list!

    He wouldn't even need to nick the Ceroc X moves list. There's a reasonably agreed set of beginners moves done by most LeRoc classes in the area. If we look at the Elmgrove list, for example, you get:

    Arch, Basket, Short Butterfly, Change Places, Figure of Eight, First Move, Hatchback, Ladies Spin, Loophole, Neckbreak, Nigel's Move, Overhead Change, Push-Pull, Secret Move, Sway, Windmill, Wurlitzer and Yo-Yo.

    Having worked for Sherif a few years ago, I'd've advised him to adapt it to suit his beginners syllabus and so remove the Short Butterfly & Secret Move, add on the Cleaver and change the Windmill to a Half Windmill, so you'd end up with:

    • Arm Jive
    • Arch
    • Basket
    • Change Places
    • Cleaver (Return variation)
    • Figure of Eight
    • First Move
    • Hatchback
    • Ladies Spin
    • Loophole
    • Neckbreak
    • Nigel's Move
    • Overhead Change
    • Sway
    • Half Windmill
    • Wurlitzer
    • Yo-Yo


    You'd have a good list of 17 solid and recognisable moves as the majority of them are still Ceroc Beginner and Classic moves (Arch = Archie, Change Places = Man Spin, Loophole = Octopus (except the man steps through first in a Loophole), Overhead Change = Hallelujah and Push Pull = Arm Jive). The only thing that might've baffled some is the "Nigel's Move" which is horribly cheesy, anyway.



    Ah well - we'll see how well it worked after this weekend.

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    Re: WSM Comp - Back to Basics

    So how was it? How well did it work?

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    Re: WSM Comp - Back to Basics

    Quote Originally Posted by ~*~Saligal~*~ View Post
    A CJ is similar to the "promenade walks" in jive (or east coast swing) - except that the guy also does the swivel steps.
    It did not make sense to me when I first came to Aussie... I was told it was named after a guy called CJ who first demoed the move
    Even though I had been doing a similar thing in Ballroom jive for a while.


    Names are hard, as they do vary across the world and across venues.

    There are others such as "Leane's move" - I taught this move, and was later told it was "Leane's move" - I just thought, who the **** is Leane?

    Now I have moved to the Gold Coast, and several moves are called by different names... I often join in the beginners class, but when the beginners ask me the name of the move.... I just say "I dunno" - coz I am not sure what it is called locally.

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    Re: WSM Comp - Back to Basics

    Oh yeah and they call the octopus the loophole here, and the octopus, is um eh, something else.

    But in Sydney the loophole is the octopus..

    Onto the Conan, or the arch or the arche's turn.. Funniest thing was Simon de Lisle teaching this move with me in the class, and calling out the move and then interpetating into "English" for my benefit.

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