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Thread: Apostrophiles

  1. #21
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    Re: Apostrophiles

    It's the psychology that interests me. Certain words seem to throw people into confusion when they need to write the plural.

    Flower > flowers seems to bother nobody; you never see Flower's for sale.

    But words ending with a vowel cause mayhem. Photo > photo's. Potato > potato's. Cauli > Cauli's.

    And then there's our old favourite, it's. Only ever spelled that way when you could substitute "it is" in the sentence, but people remember the other rule - 'when something belongs to Barry, it is Barry's; therefore when something belongs to it it is it's' - and get confused.

    Almost everyone (exceptions are well known to themselves) on this forum is far above average both in spelling and in grammar. Clearly, dancing makes people better linguists. Cause and effect, right?

  2. #22
    Basically lazy robd's Avatar
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    Re: Apostrophiles

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry Shnikov View Post
    Cauli > Cauli's.
    Isn't that valid given that Cauli's is an abbreviated form of Cauliflowers?

  3. #23
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    Re: Apostrophiles

    Quote Originally Posted by robd View Post
    Isn't that valid given that Cauli's is an abbreviated form of Cauliflowers?
    Um, no, not if cauli is the singular. But hey, who can unravel the mysteries of the grocer's apostrophe?

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    Registered User ~*~Saligal~*~'s Avatar
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    Re: Apostrophiles

    My fave is the "your"and "you're" - along with "there", "their" and "they're".

  5. #25
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    Re: Apostrophiles

    Quote Originally Posted by David Bailey View Post
    I have to ask - why?[/SIZE]
    If I could answer that, I would go out and achieve world peace. Or something.

    I'm not saying apostrophe abuse is worse than these other things. Just that it gets to me far more. Why this is, I wish I could say...

  6. #26
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    Re: Apostrophiles

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidY View Post
    Shouldn't it be the apostrophobes who are the apostrophe misusers?
    Apostrophobes don't use them at all. Apostrophiles use them far too much, and love nothing more than to put them into humiliating positions, in public, for all to see.

    They're evil, I tell you.

    They must be stopped.

  7. #27
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    Re: Apostrophiles

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry Shnikov View Post
    Um, no, not if cauli is the singular.
    That's a big if. The OED online has no entry for Cauli but does list Cauliflower.

    It also has entries for 'fruitless' ' waste' 'of' 'my' 'time' 'on' 'this' and 'thread'

  8. #28
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    Re: Apostrophiles

    Life's too short to get upset over a wee mark on the page.

    Chill, dance, and be happy.
    Let your mind go and your body will follow. – Steve Martin, LA Story

  9. #29
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    Re: Apostrophiles

    Saw one the other day that I just couldn't believe on a garage in Bristol:

    TYRE'S

    Not only had someone thought this was correct, but someone then manufactured a sign in huge letters duplicating the mistake

  10. #30
    Registered User Poi Boi's Avatar
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    Re: Apostrophiles

    Its' gud to c that teh grammer Nazis' r still abel 2 complane aboot summin.

    The above example excluded, my spelling and grammar is usually not that bad, but is very far from perfect. Many people try their best to not make simple grammatical errors and spelling mistakes, but sadly, for some people, we just weren't that good at English at school. We can actually find it quite insulting when continually picked upon for poor grammar and spelling mistakes.

    If you have a problem with text speak because it's changing the language, then why are you not speaking in ye olde english? A person of the Victorian era would probably have great trouble understanding modern English. Text speak, net speak and other such ways of changing the language are matters of evolution, the fittest will survive. I personally am not a big fan of text speak, but it more often than not can be used to convey a lot in a short space, such as in a text. I do find it funny when people use txt speak in things like essays ect, but then, they are actually marked on spelling, punctuation and grammar.

    But then, at the end of the day, people like being pedantic about things. I for one, just don't understand why.

  11. #31
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    Re: Apostrophiles

    from wikipedia
    he rendered it as a drawn out "dohhhh"
    it appears that the apostrophe is substituting for the missing "hhh"
    If that is the source of D'oh then it's more correct to write Do'h as Steven has written.
    But why would Wiki write it as D'oh instead of Do'h?

  12. #32
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    Re: Apostrophiles

    Quote Originally Posted by Poi Boi View Post
    If you have a problem with text speak because it's changing the language, then why are you not speaking in ye olde english? A person of the Victorian era would probably have great trouble understanding modern English.
    No, they wouldn't; their only problem would be new vocabulary - clearly 'download' is going to throw them, e.g. Even an Elizabethan wouldn't have much of a problem with written english, though it is believed that the spoken tongues would be completely different.

    The reason for execration of the use of txt spk outside of cell phones is that it makes enormous sacrifices of clarity and certainty in favour of minimising the number of characters used, because of early limitations on the length of SMS messages. Where those limitations do not apply then the balance swings w-a-y back in favour of clarity and certainty and that's why typing in text speak in, eg., an internet forum is a sign of immaturity, nerdiness, and/or extreme youth, or combinations thereof.

    It has nothing to do with evolution of language, but it is a very short term response to a short term problem. Before too long you won't need to text anyone; just speak your message into the phone and it will be dumped as a properly-spelled message on the recipient's phone.

  13. #33
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    Re: Apostrophiles

    Quote Originally Posted by Poi Boi View Post
    The above example excluded, my spelling and grammar is usually not that bad, but is very far from perfect. Many people try their best to not make simple grammatical errors and spelling mistakes, but sadly, for some people, we just weren't that good at English at school. We can actually find it quite insulting when continually picked upon for poor grammar and spelling mistakes.
    Mine's pretty good. Well, OK, it's actually average, but I have good reviewing skills.

    If you're concerned about spelling, there are lots of spellcheckers available - I think Firefox has one built-in? - so I'd look at those.

    Quote Originally Posted by Poi Boi View Post
    If you have a problem with text speak because it's changing the language, then why are you not speaking in ye olde english?
    Text speak isn't changing the language. Neither is netspeak, really. I've yet to hear anyone actually say (for example) "LOL" in conversation.

    It's just another dialect, is all. Nothing to get excited about, English has dozens or hundreds of them already.

    Quote Originally Posted by Poi Boi View Post
    But then, at the end of the day, people like being pedantic about things. I for one, just don't understand why.
    Well, the main reason is that too many of these errors make communication more difficult; it's more difficult to understand what's being said if we need to stop and decipher things every now and then.

  14. #34
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    Re: Apostrophiles

    Quote Originally Posted by David Bailey View Post
    I've yet to hear anyone actually say (for example) "LOL" in conversation.


    you need to hang around with more geeks then Just the other day in the office one geek turned to another* and said something funny about the software (you have to be there) and the other one looked up from his desk , grinned and replied

    "Roffel !!"

    *and yes...I was one of the geeks.. but not saying which one!

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    Re: Apostrophiles

    Quote Originally Posted by ~*~Saligal~*~ View Post
    My fave is the "your"and "you're" - along with "there", "their" and "they're".
    I've seen lots of "to" and "too" mistakes around here.

    Quote Originally Posted by ducasi View Post
    Life's too short to get upset over a wee mark on the page.
    If I find a wee mark on my page, I'll be taking it back demanding a clean one.

  16. #36
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    Re: Apostrophiles

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry Shnikov View Post
    The reason for execration of the use of txt spk outside of cell phones is that it makes enormous sacrifices of clarity and certainty in favour of minimising the number of characters used, because of early limitations on the length of SMS messages. Where those limitations do not apply then the balance swings w-a-y back in favour of clarity and certainty and that's why typing in text speak in, eg., an internet forum is a sign of immaturity, nerdiness, and/or extreme youth, or combinations thereof.

    It has nothing to do with evolution of language, but it is a very short term response to a short term problem. Before too long you won't need to text anyone; just speak your message into the phone and it will be dumped as a properly-spelled message on the recipient's phone.


    I’ve got so used to using decent grammar and spelling, that I can’t bear the use of txt speak… even when I’m texting

    Does anyone else type words out in full and use apostrophes correctly when texting, or is it just me? It’s so easy now with predictive text, and you’re not really limited in the same way that you used to be on length (though obviously if you get too wordy, then the message costs more).

  17. #37
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    Re: Apostrophiles

    Quote Originally Posted by David Bailey
    If you're concerned about spelling, there are lots of spellcheckers available - I think Firefox has one built-in? - so I'd look at those.
    I'm not particularly concerned unless I am actually being graded on my S.P.G. I do try and review my own words, but I don't always do it.

    Quote Originally Posted by David Bailey
    Text speak isn't changing the language. Neither is netspeak, really. I've yet to hear anyone actually say (for example) "LOL" in conversation.

    It's just another dialect, is all. Nothing to get excited about, English has dozens or hundreds of them already.
    Actually, I do know people that say 'lol' 'brb' 'afk' and many other net-speak phrases. Txt speak doesn't usually come up in conversation, but that isn't what it was designed for. A good point you make, calling it a dialect, it is the dialect of the text, the dialect of the internet. Whether or not you understand or like the local dialect is another matter.

    Quote Originally Posted by David Bailey
    Well, the main reason is that too many of these errors make communication more difficult; it's more difficult to understand what's being said if we need to stop and decipher things every now and then.
    It is more difficult, I agree, but as the posts by Steven666 show, it's not impossible. The brain is able to make sense of words that are not spelt correctly. When clear and concise communication is required, such as in contracts or other legal documents, a misplaced apostrophe or spelling mistake can make a huge difference. In a general discussion about 'what makes a real man' etc, I don't see it as a matter of life and death.

    I once trained up a Korean girl to do my job before I left the company. Her spoken English was near perfect, often better than mine. Her written English was appalling, and something they only found out after they had hired her. The problems she faced due to poor written communication were considerable, and clarity did indeed become an issue, and when working for a communications company, it becomes quite a big issue.

    The rules of English were created to give clarity in the language when written down as well as spoken. The creation of a dictionary stopped the use of local dialects affecting the spelling of words, and is the reason many odd spellings exist in the English language today. But if we all spell them the same (or at least try to) then it helps communication. So yes, I agree, clarity is important, but there are also times when clarity is not the issue, the content is.

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry Shnikov
    It has nothing to do with evolution of language, but it is a very short term response to a short term problem. Before too long you won't need to text anyone; just speak your message into the phone and it will be dumped as a properly-spelled message on the recipient's phone.
    What is evolution if not a response to change? People were presented with a linguistic problem, and evolved the language to compensate. This will likely evolve again, or maybe de-evolve if the circumstances were to change. The limitations of space in a text message have changed the language used in a text message. Hate it or embrace it, it is up to you. Evolution is about the survival of the fittest, and the new doesn't always replace the old. And as for speak-to-text, when that happens, the language may well evolve again.

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry Shnikov
    though it is believed that the spoken tongues would be completely different.
    Written language and spoken language are similar but far from the same in most cases. But as I said, ye olde english is quite different to modern day english, but then, modern english is called modern, because it has changed, and yes, even evolved from ye olde.

    Anyways, enough of being the advocate of the Devil. I don't even use text speak that much even in texts, it is however, part of my vocabulary to be used for writing and I see it as a change of the language we know today. What changes occur in the future, and the spread of those changes I will leave down to Fate and Evolution. I just don't see the point of getting wound up about an apostrophe in the wrong place, unless of course, that misplaced apostrophe will lose me marks, or change the meaning in a way that is detrimental to the message.

    Will the mods be giving us marks on our S.P.G in future?

  18. #38
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    Re: Apostrophiles

    Quote Originally Posted by Poi Boi View Post
    It is more difficult, I agree, but as the posts by Steven666 show, it's not impossible.
    Pah, he's a piker compared to the King (S38) and Queen (Fletch) of this area.

    Quote Originally Posted by Poi Boi View Post
    The brain is able to make sense of words that are not spelt correctly. When clear and concise communication is required, such as in contracts or other legal documents, a misplaced apostrophe or spelling mistake can make a huge difference. In a general discussion about 'what makes a real man' etc, I don't see it as a matter of life and death.
    Depends whether you want to make your point or not, I guess. If you're happy with people not listening to your comments as much, then that's fine...

  19. #39
    Registered User Poi Boi's Avatar
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    Re: Apostrophiles

    Quote Originally Posted by David Bailey View Post
    Depends whether you want to make your point or not, I guess. If you're happy with people not listening to your comments as much, then that's fine...
    Well I do try and make sense

    And as for the person who decided my comments are worth neg repping me, I think you may have missed my point.

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    Re: Apostrophiles

    Quote Originally Posted by Poi Boi View Post
    Well I do try and make sense
    Well stop that and try to make sense instead.

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