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Thread: Define "Evil"

  1. #21
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    Re: Define "Evil"

    Quote Originally Posted by David Bailey View Post
    I don't understand. Do you think "sane" = "good" then?
    Definitely not.
    It's very difficult to define "sanity", though. It's more useful to define "insanity" - or more precisely, specific mental disorders. If someone's not suffering from such a disorder, then the presumption is that they're sane, surely?
    I endeavoured to take care of that in the question. Is there a useful definition of sanity that excludes people who kidnap, imprison and rape women for years?
    Whereas "Evil" is more than just "an absence of Good" to me.
    Surely that's wholly inadequate? Is 'absence of good' equivalent to evil? It would be good to donate all your disposable income to charity: if you don't do that, and keep it for yourself, that's not evil. It just isn't 'good' either.
    And I'm not sure I'd label a person as being evil.
    Well, neither would I; but that's because I think the word is almost useless. Like Lewis Black says of the US Threat level colours - they always have to tell you what the colour means, so why not dump the colours and just give them a name? (His suggestions are something like 'Oh **** - Jesus Christ - and **** me!') In the same way, it's never clear what 'evil' means in the same way that 'immoral' or 'destructive' or 'vicious' can be easily understood.

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    Registered User Beowulf's Avatar
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    Re: Define "Evil"

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry Shnikov View Post
    In the same way, it's never clear what 'evil' means in the same way that 'immoral' or 'destructive' or 'vicious' can be easily understood.


    I have met some vicious people in my time.. they were just plain nasty and rude. I've met some vicious dogs too.. they weren't nasty and rude but they did bark and growl a lot and try to bite me. I've made some vicious chillies in my time but so far they've never tried to jump off my plate and go for the throat .. .. yet

    words can be used in so many contexts. My joke about custard being evil was actually a tongue in cheek way to make a serious point. I don't actually think Custard and marmite eaters should be burned at the stake (flogging is enough to be fair) but "Evil" is used in so many different contexts.

    Two girls at a fictitious bus stop
    "Yeah like so I was like there right? and he was like Can i have a date like? and I was like yeah ok like 4 pm behind the bike sheds"
    "No way?"
    "Yes way.. anyway he was like Well wicked and he like walked off"
    "So did you go? did you like snog him?"
    "No way I like never went. he's well minging! "
    "Oh you are well evil"

    Close curtains - end of scene 1

  3. #23
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    Re: Define "Evil"

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry Shnikov View Post
    Definitely not.

    I endeavoured to take care of that in the question. Is there a useful definition of sanity that excludes people who kidnap, imprison and rape women for years?

    Surely that's wholly inadequate? Is 'absence of good' equivalent to evil? It would be good to donate all your disposable income to charity: if you don't do that, and keep it for yourself, that's not evil. It just isn't 'good' either.

    Well, neither would I; but that's because I think the word is almost useless. Like Lewis Black says of the US Threat level colours - they always have to tell you what the colour means, so why not dump the colours and just give them a name? (His suggestions are something like 'Oh **** - Jesus Christ - and **** me!') In the same way, it's never clear what 'evil' means in the same way that 'immoral' or 'destructive' or 'vicious' can be easily understood.
    Oh, CURSES.

    Of course I intended to write:
    "Is there a useful definition of insanity that excludes people who kidnap, imprison and rape women for years?

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    Re: Define "Evil"

    Quote Originally Posted by Beowulf View Post
    Two girls at a fictitious bus stop
    "Yeah like so I was like there right? and he was like Can i have a date like? and I was like yeah ok like 4 pm behind the bike sheds"
    "No way?"
    "Yes way.. anyway he was like Well wicked and he like walked off"
    "So did you go? did you like snog him?"
    "No way I like never went. he's well minging! "
    "Oh you are well evil"

    Close curtains - end of scene 1

  5. #25
    Formerly known as DavidJames David Bailey's Avatar
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    Re: Define "Evil"

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry Shnikov View Post
    Oh, CURSES.

    Of course I intended to write:
    "Is there a useful definition of insanity that excludes people who kidnap, imprison and rape women for years?
    Ah. That makes a bit more sense.

    My answer's the same though - I believe you don't have to be insane to commit evil acts. Was Hitler insane? Possibly. But I doubt that every Nazi was collectively insane - some or most of them were undoubtedly aware that they were committing evil actions. It seems unbelievable to claim - for example - that all the prison guards at Dachau were insane.

    In the present day - Is Mugabe insane? No, probably not, he's just a nasty man who'll do almost anything to retain power. Is George Bush insane? No, he's just very stupid. And so on.

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    Re: Define "Evil"

    Evil is when somebody does something INTENTIONALLY to cause pain and suffering to another person FULL STOP.

    All this crap about upset, suicidal, mentally unstable... so wots the difference. All it means is, they are evil and unstable or they are evil upset people.

    They are evil minded whatever the background. Whats the difference between a mentally unstable A and a mentally unstable B. One kills his mum cause she smiled at him with the crooked tooth that pissed him off so much, the other one cried cause he couldn't stand the look of her face.

    Easy.... mentally unstable A is an evil mentally unstable but mentally unstable B is just mentally unstable.

    BREATH TROUBLE,.... BREATH

    I think i made my point.

    NOW THAT YOU STAMPED ALL OVER MY PREVIOUS THREAD.

  7. #27
    Formerly known as DavidJames David Bailey's Avatar
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    Re: Define "Evil"

    Quote Originally Posted by Trouble View Post
    stuff
    Caps lock is definitely evil, I think we can all come together on that one.

  8. #28
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    Re: Define "Evil"

    Quote Originally Posted by CJ View Post
    Women are evil. By definition.

    Women, as we all know are time and money. Any business man will tell you that time is money!!

    so...
    women = time x money
    time = money, therefore
    women = money2 (squared)

    It is accepted wisdom that money is the root of all evil.

    therefore
    money = /evil (sqaure root)
    therefore
    money2 (Squared) = evil.
    This is where your logic starts to fall down. The saying is 'the root' not the square root. It could just as easily be the fourth root of evil, suggesting that:
    money = /evil (fourth root)
    therefore
    money^4 = evil.

    Which would imply that, if women = money^2 is true:

    evil = women^2
    or evil is when you put women together in a room in the absence of chocolate...


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    Registered User Brighton Belle's Avatar
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    Re: Define "Evil"

    Quote Originally Posted by Trouble View Post
    Evil is when somebody does something INTENTIONALLY to cause pain and suffering to another person FULL STOP.
    But this is just too simplistic. It still depends where you're looking at it from.
    eg:
    Quote Originally Posted by Brighton Belle View Post
    We might regard the people who bombed the World Trade Centre as evil, but many millions of Moslems in the world don't - they're heroes. We are the evil ones as we don't believe in Islam / Mohammed.

    Thousands of well meaning old women have been burnt at the stake over the centuries as witches. The figures in authority at the time thought they were helping society by rooting out the evil ones but who would we now define as evil? The witches or those who conducted the witchunt?


    In both cases these people deliberately caused suffering to others but from their point of view, they thought they had just cause. Many American states still have the death penalty which is supported by most Americans so are all Americans evil? You might say "people who cause pain and suffering without good reason" but then who is to define 'good reason'? This is always going to depend where in the world you live and your society's views. We are all prejudiced by our upbringing, however fair-minded we think we are.
    Last edited by ducasi; 18th-June-2008 at 05:06 PM. Reason: fixing quote

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    Re: Define "Evil"

    there is never a "good reason" to cause pain and suffering. I mean even death penalty now a days is given to somebody painless lethal injection puts them to sleep first.

    What gives somebody the right to be evil or make another human being suffer.

    Nothing does, does it?

  11. #31
    Registered User Twirly's Avatar
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    Re: Define "Evil"

    Quote Originally Posted by Trouble View Post
    Evil is when somebody does something INTENTIONALLY to cause pain and suffering to another person FULL STOP.
    Quote Originally Posted by Brighton Belle View Post

    But this is just too simplistic. It still depends where you're looking at it from.

    In both cases these people deliberately caused suffering to others but from their point of view, they thought they had just cause. Many American states still have the death penalty which is supported by most Americans so are all Americans evil? You might say "people who cause pain and suffering without good reason" but then who is to define 'good reason'? This is always going to depend where in the world you live and your society's views. We are all prejudiced by our upbringing, however fair-minded we think we are.


    There are many instances where suffering is inflicted on one group of people for what is perceived as the greater good. It is where we view these from, culturally and historically, that defines how we react to them, and how wrong we consider them to be. After all even fighting back against a perceived wrong inflicts suffering on others. The soldier who kills another soldier trying to free his country (as in WWII) will inflict suffering both on that soldier (who could be seen from our point of view as being an "evil Nazi" and therefore deserving it) and that soldier's wife, mother, children etc. These things do not occur in a vacuum.

    So far as "mental illness" is concerned, this is again something defined by society. Someone in our society who hears voices is likely to be diagnosed as being mentally ill. Historically they might have been reverred as being in touch with God. Even in our society, definitions of mental illness change all the time, and new disorders are "discovered". We do not know as yet how much of this is due to brain chemistry. Would we define someone as "evil" because their brain chemistry was altered from what it should be?

    I don't find the concept of "evil" a very helpful one - as has been said, it stems from religion. People do bad things. Sometimes this is unpleasent, sometimes it is tragic. What use does the concept of evil have for us, apart from implying that someone is beyond redemption and should be written off? I believe in the human being's ability to adapt and develop, if they want to (and that is the key) - this does not mean that I think that a serial killer should be let loose however. Society needs to be protected. However, most wrong-doing is small, not large-scale. The kid who nicks things from the sweet shop - are they evil?

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    Registered User stewart38's Avatar
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    Re: Define "Evil"

    Quote Originally Posted by Beowulf View Post

    lets not get bogged down in who's right and who's wrong but have an open discussion on your view of evil ?


    I'll tell people at the end , who was right and wrong

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    Re: Define "Evil"

    My ex wife!

    Sorry, I think I was getting confused with greedy then again probably both.

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    Re: Define "Evil"

    Quote Originally Posted by Twirly View Post
    There are many instances where suffering is inflicted on one group of people for what is perceived as the greater good.
    True, but Trouble has a point. Whether there is a good reason to do something very harmful, nasty or whatever ,is beside the point - it can still be "evil" - and doing it can make you "evil". Everyone will not agree of course.


    I don't find the concept of "evil" a very helpful one - as has been said, it stems from religion.
    Of course it doesn't. "EVIL" is a basic human moral label - if something is bad enough it is "evil". There is a lot of what consitutes evil in every religious book because our ancestors were quite familiar with the concept and all religious books have something to say on morals.

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    Re: Define "Evil"

    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadful Scathe View Post
    Of course it doesn't. "EVIL" is a basic human moral label - if something is bad enough it is "evil".
    So evil='so bad it's worse than nasty'...? Synonym for 'really horrible'?

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    Re: Define "Evil"

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry Shnikov View Post
    So evil='so bad it's worse than nasty'...? Synonym for 'really horrible'?
    'really most horrible'

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    Re: Define "Evil"

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry Shnikov View Post
    So evil='so bad it's worse than nasty'...? Synonym for 'really horrible'?
    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadful Scathe View Post
    'really most horrible'
    oh dear.. don't know why.. but that stirred up a memory from WAY back.. I'm getting old..

    Sing along Children...

    "So if you're filthy ... Smelly!
    Evil, Wicked, and Cruel
    You'll be right at home
    at Queen Aggie's School"


    I'll get my coat.. my broom and my black cat on the way out...

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    Re: Define "Evil"

    As DJ (sorry DB ) and Barry seem to be suggesting, the word (just like any other word, in fact) is subjective and does not always convey the meaning of the person using it.

    If you want to get down to basics, this is what makes English one of the hardest languages to learn as a second language. Most of the words can mean anything you want them to, without explaining it to the person listening!

    However, sometimes definitions can be a little too simplistic sometimes...
    Quote Originally Posted by Trouble View Post
    Evil is when somebody does something INTENTIONALLY to cause pain and suffering to another person FULL STOP.
    Ever smacked a child? Had a fight? said something offensive?

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    Re: Define "Evil"

    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadful Scathe View Post
    True, but Trouble has a point. Whether there is a good reason to do something very harmful, nasty or whatever ,is beside the point - it can still be "evil" - and doing it can make you "evil". Everyone will not agree of course.
    I wouldn't describe a doctor prescribing chemotherapy as "evil", but they would fit Trouble's definition, wouldn't they?

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    Re: Define "Evil"

    Quote Originally Posted by Gav View Post
    As DJ (sorry DB ) and Barry seem to be suggesting, the word (just like any other word, in fact) is subjective and does not always convey the meaning of the person using it.
    Hey, I said that too you evil git

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