So well done Ireland, you've given the EU the answer to the question that they dare not ask all of the other people of Europe.
Well it's looking like we all owe the 3m people of Ireland a big thank you. They are the only ordinary people who have been allowed to actually have a say in what they think of the wretched treaty, a say denied to the rest of Europe.
What happens next is going to be interesting! The EU ministers can either tear up the rule book and ignore Ireland, ask them to keep voting until they give the 'right' answer, or actually modify things to something that people want.
Unfortunately the latter course of action is highly unlikely, the only thing that the EU learnt after the resounding rejection of the EU Constitution is that it's a very bad idea to actually practise democracy and ask peoples opinions.
So well done Ireland, you've given the EU the answer to the question that they dare not ask all of the other people of Europe.
So well done Ireland, you've given the EU the answer to the question that they dare not ask all of the other people of Europe.
What's so bad about this treaty anyway? From what I've seen, it's all about creating a fairer, more balanced Europe.
How many people who do not support this treaty want the UK to withdraw from the EU?
Let your mind go and your body will follow. – Steve Martin, LA Story
Actually, I think the treaty's OK. Similarly for the previous incarnation of the constitution.
What I - and I suspect a lot of others - resent is the way that it's been foisted on us without us actually having a chance to debate on it, or even understand it. It's typical Eurocratic "We know what's best for you, you little plebs" attitude, which gets right up my nose.
And seeing our own government try to claim "It's not the same as the constitution, therefore you don't need a vote" - well, it's hypocritical. All they're saying is "We may lose, so we won't let you vote".
It's clearly an important constitutional change - and one which all parties have promised to have a referendum on, no matter whether it's called a treaty or a constitution. I want politicians to keep their promises. I know, it's a vain hope, but still, this sort of blatant hypocrisy is annoying.
I support the treaty - sort of.
But even if I didn't, I'd not want to withdraw from Europe. It's perfectly possible to oppose one piece of legislation whilst supporting the institution.
Have people's cynicism of politicians reached the stage that any vote becomes a protest vote?
Let your mind go and your body will follow. – Steve Martin, LA Story
My cynicism has actually come full-circle; I'm starting to think (some) politicians have principles again...
But I agree that a referendum has dangers of being about the government rather than the issue.
Let your mind go and your body will follow. – Steve Martin, LA Story
Well, the BBC for a start:
BBC NEWS | Programmes | Newsnight | EU corruption claims investigated
And the fact that the EU's auditors have failed to approve the EU budget for 13 years seems a bit of an indicator of dodginess.
That's difficult to say - looking at the CPI, the UK'd doing pretty well - 11th equal in 2006 - but that only measures corruption on a national level.
I'm not aware of any stats measuring corruption within the EU beurocracy itself. But there's plenty of anecdotal evidence of corruption.
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