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Thread: Is London still the Mecca for dance?

  1. #1
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    Is London still the Mecca for dance?

    When I was growing up in Ceroc, London was always the Mecca with far better dancers than the rest of the country.

    The exceptions being those who travelled to London regularly from other areas.

    Sydney was also the dance Mecca of Australia, when I arrived here in 1999.

    The latest champs in Sydney produced some interesting results....

    Intermediate B
    1st Gold Coast
    2nd Gold Coast
    3rd Gold Coast

    Intermediate A
    2nd Gold Coast
    3rd Gold Coast

    Top division
    Ist Gold Coast
    2nd Gold Coast and Sydney combo
    3rd Gold Coast

    Showcase
    1st Gold Coast
    2nd Gold Coast


    Maybe the Gold Coast is the new Mecca for the Aussie dance scene?
    [I might be biased as I now live,and dance, in the Gold Coast]

    So is London still the UK dance "Mecca", or is there a hot bed of dancers in another area that seriously kick ass?

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    Re: Is London still the Mecca for dance?

    I'm pretty sure there are good dancers everywhere, but I think the standard in London is generally higher than the rest of the country. I'd say this is due mainly to the sheer density of the population and the number of classes down here each week. I've been dancing in Glasgow and Edinburgh a lot recently and, while some the dancers there are very good, they don't have the same opportunity to practice and learn as we do in London, so it is harder for them to get to the same level...

  3. #3
    Donna
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    Re: Is London still the Mecca for dance?

    Quote Originally Posted by Martin View Post
    When I was growing up in Ceroc, London was always the Mecca with far better dancers than the rest of the country.

    The exceptions being those who travelled to London regularly from other areas.

    Sydney was also the dance Mecca of Australia, when I arrived here in 1999.

    The latest champs in Sydney produced some interesting results....

    Intermediate B
    1st Gold Coast
    2nd Gold Coast
    3rd Gold Coast

    Intermediate A
    2nd Gold Coast
    3rd Gold Coast

    Top division
    Ist Gold Coast
    2nd Gold Coast and Sydney combo
    3rd Gold Coast

    Showcase
    1st Gold Coast
    2nd Gold Coast


    Maybe the Gold Coast is the new Mecca for the Aussie dance scene?
    [I might be biased as I now live,and dance, in the Gold Coast]

    So is London still the UK dance "Mecca", or is there a hot bed of dancers in another area that seriously kick ass?
    I always got the impression that the majority of dancers in london were of a higher standard, but then went I paid a visit to ceroc Birmingham I was quite impressed by the effort people were putting into their dancing - esp the younger crowd.

    I've heard there are a lot of fab dancers in Scotland too.

    I think what pushes people to progress is 1) more workshops - advanced/styling 2) taking up another style and putting it into MJ routine.

    We don't seem to have as many workshops up this way anymore so people are stuck to learn something different compared to what they just do in weekly classes.

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    Re: Is London still the Mecca for dance?

    London aint all that, you aint dissing my local, we is da bomb.

    (just got my chav vernacular book through today. respeck!)

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    Re: Is London still the Mecca for dance?

    Quote Originally Posted by Filthy Monkey View Post
    I've been dancing in Glasgow and Edinburgh a lot recently and, while some the dancers there are very good, they don't have the same opportunity to practice and learn as we do in London, so it is harder for them to get to the same level...


    I take the point about access to classes, etc but personally at least three of my absolute favourite people to dance with are from Aberdeen and Edinburgh and there's a huge amount they could teach to pretty much any of the London dancers I dance with

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    Re: Is London still the Mecca for dance?

    Quote Originally Posted by robd View Post

    but personally at least three of my absolute favourite people to dance with are from Aberdeen and Edinburgh and there's a huge amount they could teach to pretty much any of the London dancers I dance with
    Viva the Scots.

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    Re: Is London still the Mecca for dance?

    I think it's all to do with population concentrations. However, if you were to analyse the number of good MJ dancers per head of population you'd probably find that London was the worst.

    One, not particularly statistical, measure of the proportion of the population who dance is the number you bump into during your time outside dancing. I'm always bumping into dancers I know down here in Sussex. It's at least once a week, often more. Sometimes two or three in a day. I recently attended a talk on smoking cessation in Crawley and there were two ladies who I know from dancing - and they didn't actually know each other as they dance in different places.

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    Not a spoon! Lou's Avatar
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    Re: Is London still the Mecca for dance?

    Quote Originally Posted by Filthy Monkey View Post
    I'm pretty sure there are good dancers everywhere, but I think the standard in London is generally higher than the rest of the country. I'd say this is due mainly to the sheer density of the population and the number of classes down here each week. I've been dancing in Glasgow and Edinburgh a lot recently and, while some the dancers there are very good, they don't have the same opportunity to practice and learn as we do in London, so it is harder for them to get to the same level...
    I think the standard of dancing is particularly good in London because of the dense population you mention.

    Because there are more people, more classes can exist. This means that these 3 key things happen:
    • there is more opportunity for people to discover Modern Jive in the first place.
    • there is more opportunity to practice regularly, as it is easy to find a class every night of the week.
    • plenty of freestyles.

    In addition there is:

    • better frequency of workshops.
    • the opportunity for organisers to "take risks" with specialist products (i.e. Hipsters, Utopia, Mariachi, Jango, etc... )
    • there are more dancers, so statistically speaking there will be a greater spread of abilities - more dancers at both the higher & lower ends of the spectrum.
    • and because there is a cluster of better dancers, there is inspiration for improvement


    Another significant factor may well be its proximity to the "seat of power". Hey! Ceroc HQ is here, so it stands to reason there will be a cluster of better teachers, more opportunities, etc. in the neighbourhood.


    How do you measure dance ability, though?
    I suppose the best thing is to use Martin's example of competition results. Does it fit? I haven't been here long enough to recognise the local names in the results pages of the various comps.


    Based on that measure, I'd argue that Bristol is another example of a Mecca. Look at the recent regular competition success of Bristolian dancers like Matt, Becky, Jennie, Danni, Sharon, Simon, Marty, Lesley, Lin & Alex, Elaine & Simon, etc... You could even extend the boundaries just a little to bring in the likes of Tom Baker & the Gloucester contingent.

    It has a large enough population to support multiple local classes per night. There are regular guest teacher workshops. And whilst specialist offerings are rare (there have been Ballroom/MJ and salsa/MJ classes in the past & Cressida has recently started a Blues/MJ class), there's always been a strong history of cross-over with other dance forms (Swing, C&W, Salsa & AT.)

    (Also, it's the base for the Federation - make of that what you will..... )



    There are some absolutely fabulous dancers in Scotland. But because the population is spread so thinly, there's just fewer of them. We're not "dissing" you, Smurfy.
    Last edited by Lou; 10th-June-2008 at 11:01 AM. Reason: I knew I'd forget someone

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    Re: Is London still the Mecca for dance?

    Quote Originally Posted by Astro View Post
    Viva the Scots.
    My absolute bestest fave follow happens to be in Scotland - Dr Lisa

    Franck sure has some good dancers there - which is why I recommended Emma and Clint to check out Scotland as well as London on thier recent visit.

    Emma is one of my fav Gold Coast followers.

    I guess my point is:

    14 years + ago I think it is fair to say, London had the highest concerntration of "top" dancers in the UK.

    9 years + ago Sydney had the highest concerntration of the "top" dancers in Aussie.

    Looking at recent champ results in Aussie, Gold Coast is maybe taking over in being "the place for the top dancers"

    In the UK, do the London dancers still take out most of the trophies - or is there a "hot bed" of dancers in a certain region that now whip ass?

    I guess it helps that the champs results here post the home town of those who take out the prizes.

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    Re: Is London still the Mecca for dance?

    Quote Originally Posted by Andy McGregor View Post
    I think it's all to do with population concentrations.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lou View Post
    I think the standard of dancing is particularly good in London because of the dense population you mention.
    I see your point, but I am not convinced - Gold Coast has not got the population concentration.

    A lot of the "coasties" do however travel (and in travel, I mean plane journies) and learn from all around, they do also have awesome teachers who put a lot of time and effort into routines, workshops and other stuff.

    Perth in Western Australia is also becoming a mecca - again I think down to the teachers.

    I only used the latest champs results as a handy measure - champs are not everything, but it does give a crude overall guide.

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    B.O.G.O.F. fletch's Avatar
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    Re: Is London still the Mecca for dance?

    As most of you know I travel about quite a bit, but proberbly gravertate towards London mainly.

    I find that London dancing is more insperational, but as far as where people are from, more and more people are travelling, and London venues has loads of non Londoners in them, with comments from me, what are you doing hear?

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    Re: Is London still the Mecca for dance?

    London is still the place to be for a lot things. Granted, other cities in the country are emerging in their own right (Newcastle, Liverpool as Euro City of Culture, Manchester, Birmingham) but there is still a case for being spoilt for choice in the South East.

    Southport is an exception and a deserved one because of it's intention of giving people who didn't have a chance to get to Camber a chance to get to somewhere closer, but happily, it is attracting people all over the country including London-based dancers like myself and so it should.

    best
    johnnyman

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    Re: Is London still the Mecca for dance?

    Quote Originally Posted by Donna View Post
    I always got the impression that the majority of dancers in london were of a higher standard, but then went I paid a visit to ceroc Birmingham I was quite impressed by the effort people were putting into their dancing - esp the younger crowd.

    .
    Birmingham ? which one ? where ? how long ago was it a class night or freestyle, I would be intersted in your feed back.

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    Donna
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    Re: Is London still the Mecca for dance?

    Quote Originally Posted by fletch View Post
    Birmingham ? which one ? where ? how long ago was it a class night or freestyle, I would be intersted in your feed back.
    It was a freestyle night in Jan/Feb. Marc Foster was djing.

    I've gotta say your young lad is a fab dancer - I can see him becoming popular in the comp circuit.

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    Re: Is London still the Mecca for dance?

    Quote Originally Posted by Donna View Post
    It was a freestyle night in Jan/Feb. Marc Foster was djing.

    I've gotta say your young lad is a fab dancer - I can see him becoming popular in the comp circuit.
    Do you remember where it was?

    Joe is very keen to comp, Mike Allsopp has just anounced he is going to run an under 18's section at the Midlands champs this year and LeRock have an 9-16 section for the first year.


    theres lots of girls but not many boy's

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    Donna
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    Re: Is London still the Mecca for dance?

    Quote Originally Posted by fletch View Post
    Do you remember where it was?

    Joe is very keen to comp, Mike Allsopp has just anounced he is going to run an under 18's section at the Midlands champs this year and LeRock have an 9-16 section for the first year.


    theres lots of girls but not many boy's
    It was in Nuneaton - couldn't think for a minute where it was.

    This is the only problem with running a 9-16s catergory. Not many kids that age really get into modern jive. I suppose someone would have to start it up but perhapss not until they know for sure that more kids up and down the country are getting involved, and the only way they are going to get involved is opening up a few more ceroc franchises for that age group only.

    I think your son is going to very busy then! He'll have to dance with all the girls cuz he'll be the only young guy available!

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    Re: Is London still the Mecca for dance?

    Quote Originally Posted by Martin View Post
    My absolute bestest fave follow happens to be in Scotland - Dr Lisa
    Lisa is quite something

    Quote Originally Posted by Martin
    I see your point, but I am not convinced - Gold Coast has not got the population concentration.

    ~snip~

    Perth in Western Australia is also becoming a mecca - again I think down to the teachers.
    In all honesty, I think that in some cases not having a high population density can help.

    What I mean is that a lower population base cannot support as many teachers, but if those teacher happen to be good (possibly the best even?) then everyone in that area is learning from them and so the average level get’s to be quite high.

    That said, it’s also a little self-limiting in that without external role-models it can be very difficult to develop past those teachers abilities and understanding, or in different directions to their personal styles. I’m sure there’s a perfect balance in their somewhere.

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    Cool Re: Is London still the Mecca for dance?

    Quote Originally Posted by fletch View Post
    Mike Allsopp has just anounced he is going to run an under 18's section at the Midlands champs this year
    I guess when you are down on your uppers £25 is £25

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    Re: Is London still the Mecca for dance?

    Quote Originally Posted by robd View Post


    I take the point about access to classes, etc but personally at least three of my absolute favourite people to dance with are from Aberdeen and Edinburgh and there's a huge amount they could teach to pretty much any of the London dancers I dance with
    That may be true, but the fact that you like dancing with them , whatever the reason, doesn't necessarily make them good dancers. They may be good, but it's not the strongest of arguments. For all we know, they could be your favourites just because they've got great boobs and a hot wiggle! I'm from Glasgow, but because of work I split my week between Glasgow and London, so I am lucky enough to have a lot of experience of both areas. There are a lot of people in Glasgow and Edinburgh I like dancing with, but when it comes to style and ability I personally find that there are more people of a higher standard in London. The simple facts are -

    1) The population is much denser down south, so there are more people dancing.

    2) People have access to many more classes , so have a greater chance to learn.

    3) Because there are so many good dancers down south, people learn much more from each other, so improve quicker.

    I'm not saying that Scottish people can't dance. I've had some great times up here, but in my experience there are more people at a higher level in London than in Glasgow or Edinburgh. I can't comment on Aberdeen, as I haven't danced there yet, but maybe I'll come back and update this after the Beach Ballroom weekender
    Last edited by Filthy Monkey; 11th-June-2008 at 01:11 AM.

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    Re: Is London still the Mecca for dance?

    Quote Originally Posted by NZ Monkey View Post
    Lisa is quite something

    In all honesty, I think that in some cases not having a high population density can help.

    What I mean is that a lower population base cannot support as many teachers, but if those teacher happen to be good (possibly the best even?) then everyone in that area is learning from them and so the average level get’s to be quite high.

    That said, it’s also a little self-limiting in that without external role-models it can be very difficult to develop past those teachers abilities and understanding, or in different directions to their personal styles. I’m sure there’s a perfect balance in their somewhere.
    Speaking of external role models - are you going to the NZ Ceroc Wellington Weekender in October?

    I will be coming over to do a triples workshop, which should be lots of fun - also a couple of very well respected UK teachers (who happen to post on this forum) will be doing some teaching.

    I hope to catch up with you then if you are going

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