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Thread: Special Needs

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    Special Needs

    Wow - my first new thread ...

    Since February, we have had a couple of 'Special Needs' lads come to our regular Ceroc night, with a 'carer' (who doesn't join in the lesson or dance, but makes sure they take their medication). Actually we have had different groups of people, not the same individuals every week.

    I just wondered what experience other forumites have had with dance for people with special needs ?

    We were initially worried that it might put our regulars or other beginners off, and adversely affect future success of the night. Generally dancers are great people and most seem to form a very tolerant and supportive community. We have more trouble with the occasional drunk that rolls in, but I hope people can tell the difference.

    Individuals vary enormously, of course - one lad ( who I would guess has Down's Syndrome ) takes it very seriously - attentive during the lesson, following instruction perfectly, and dancing well all night. He has a better sense of rhythm, and learns better than most men ! Another has a fair stab at the lesson, but tends to just enjoy the atmosphere - flashing coloured lights - putting his head against the speaker etc.

    Any tips for teachers ? If you are the type that will repeat an instruction until the last person in class does it to perfection before moving on to the next move (or the next beat !) then it will get very disruptive and frustrating all round.

    In the Taxis' Refresher lesson, I just gave the lesson as simple, clear and straight as possible, progressing at a normal speed. They pick up what they can, and miss what they can't. I suspect that labouring a point could embarrass them, and not actually help.

    Has anyone tried segregation - a separate class beforehand, or a separate lesson by taxis outside the first lesson, but simultaneous ?

    Maybe a 'fixed row' that doesn't participate in the rotation - with volunteer experienced partners ?

    Has anyone come up with a system, like the existing pink/orange stickers for beginners ?
    I'm thinking of green stickers identifying experienced people who are happy to dance with people who are struggling ... and/or red stickers for people who aren't !

    Anyone know the legal position (Disability Discrimination Act) if we were to treat some people differently (even to the extent of denying them access !!)
    Or any insurance & safety issues/ risk assessments ? To some extent the same kind of 'protecting the vulnerable' worries that prompt the age-over-16 rule apply.

    The most encouraging aspect is that we were busking in a shopping centre recently, and a lad who appeared to have Down's Syndrome, completely unknown to us, came and joined in - he had a great time, even asking members of the public to dance. I don't know where he had learned to dance, but he was pretty good at leading. Good PR or not ? I don't know, or care !

    On the other hand, rather than the 'care in the community' approach, has anyone taken MJ into institutions or clubs like PHAB/MIND as an outreach/therapy thing ? Maybe we should find out where our guys are coming from & go to them instead ?

    It's potentially a tricky situation, and I would welcome any suggestions ...

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    Re: Special Needs

    Quote Originally Posted by EricD View Post
    Wow - my first new thread ...
    Welcome to the forum.

    Although I have to say, you could have chosen an easier subject to discuss. You know, ease us in gently.

    Can't we talk about fluffy bunny rabbits or summit?


    Quote Originally Posted by EricD View Post
    It's potentially a tricky situation, and I would welcome any suggestions ...
    I used to work for weight watchers as a leader (used to then I couldn't resist the cake) and we had a couple of ladies with special needs (downs syndrome) who came in every week, with their carer . If I'm completely honest, it made me feel uncomfortable at first. I felt guilty taking their £5 for the weigh in, especially as they never lost any weight and had little understanding of the concept of healthy eating. Before anyone jumps down my throat, their carer told me this on several occasions no matter how much I tried to tell them.

    Anyway, I had half an hour to weigh 60-80 people and advice them at the scales of how they are doing, what to do next, etc, but I found I had to spend more time with my two special ladies than most because obviously they needed things explaining more...I didn't want to neglect my other members of keep them waiting in a queue for too long.

    After a few months I had a word with their carer and told her that I thought they were wasting their money and she put it all in to perspective for me.

    She told me this - They might not be losing weight, but they've both put several stones on in recent years. Coming here is stopping them from putting more weight on. They spend all week talking about you and your class and look forward to Thursday night s so they can come and chat to you and your other members. If they didn't spend £5 here, they would spent it on crisps and chocolate.

    She assured me that she did her best to try and help them with the diet and some of the information was going in and that they genuinely wanted to get on the scales and hear me praise them for doing well. I stopped worrying after that.

    I popped in to my old Thursday night class a few months ago. There they were, three years on...still going to weight watchers, still big, but not any bigger. They came up and gave me a big hug and asked when I was coming back.

    Anyway, back to your post - personally, I would be happy to dance with anyone, regardless of there special needs. I would only not dance with someone if they were smelly or were a danger to my limbs or back & that applies to anyone.

    I do, however, suspect that some people suffer from 'special needs phobias', for want of a better phrase and would avoid dancing with your guys at all costs...might even stop coming to your venue. Personally I wouldn't worry about them. It's their problem if they don't want to dance with someone with special needs and they are entitled to say 'no' to anyone they want.

    In short, I think the pleasure your special needs dancers get from your venue is far outweighed by the business you might lose by people who feel uncomfortable.

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    Re: Special Needs

    Aye aye then.

    A venue I sometimes attend has a Downs girl there, she takes longer to pick things up but her socialising skills have improved massivley over the couple of years that I have known her.
    Now not long ago she asked me for a dance and I thought to myself, "do I just stick to basic and easy moves here or not?".
    Anyway cut a long story short I started on basics and then tried to stretch her to see how far she could go.

    She slaughtered me! every single move in my book was done and she responded gorgeously at the end of the dance I thought to myself, "i will never prejudge anybody again." She danced like an angel.

    Mate when it clicks it really clicks. Big up to you and the enjoyment being received from dancing and socialising is immense.

    DTS XXX XXX

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    Re: Special Needs

    When i used to taxi we had a young guy that came with a friend whohad downs syndrome.....he took part in the class and then in the taxi review class we went along as usual and then after the class i went through the class again with him...........to see someones face light up on completing the 4 moves with no problems absolutely made my night. I heard recently that he is still attending that venue too and loves every minute of it

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    Re: Special Needs

    One of our long-term regulars recently changed her job to work with special needs adults. She's brought some of them along to the classes a few months ago. We've now got one guy who is a regular and a few ladies, I think there's 4 or 5 ladies. The ladies have picked up MJ brilliantly and seem to enjoy themselves when they are dancing. At first one of the youngest one seemed really nervous, as if she didn't really want to be there, but she seems to have joined in a bit more recently. One thing that all of the, special needs ladies seemed to have a problem wth was the moving around in the lines during the lesson - but everyone helped and they usually, but not always, get it right now. The guy took ages to get the idea of how to lead, do the moves, etc, but no longer than some of the older guys who come along. And the guy took it all very seriously and was really attentive in the lesson - he listened to me more than most guys, especially those who are really there on the pull. The special needs guy is now integrated really well and has even started smiling

    In terms of how they integrate with the rest of the class, that has been the biggest difficulty. The ladies really do just sit there waiting to be asked to dance. It's almost as if they are on standby and waiting for someone to press the "on" button: thankfully some of the guys and most of the ladies who lead have been asking them to dance. I'm hoping that some time soon I'll see these ladies asking guys for a dance.

    We really are treating these people no differently from anybody else who comes to our classes. They haven't done anything we've not seen before in terms of getting things wrong or making mistakes. They just seem to get more things wrong than most people and seem to smile a bit less. Although it is a delight when they actually do smile.

    My advice is to treat them no differently from any other adult. We are not offering special needs classes, we're offering a dance class. Different people come to dance class for different things, get fit, meet a man/woman, lose weight, make new friends, forget their troubles, etc, etc. These special needs adults obviously get something too. But all I'm offering is a dance lesson and somewhere to dance, what people take from it is down to them and not something I should try to control.

    The most telling question I could ask myself is. "Having integrated a few special needs adults into my classes would I encourage more of them?" I'm afraid my answer would be "no" or "maybe one or two more, but no more than that". I think that a few special needs adults enriches the class and people kindly help make that happen But more than a few and there might not be enough "kindness" to go around. Also, I believe that lessons would be slower and we might put off some people. Having said that, we have a few very elderly guys who also enrich our classes - but I wouldn't want too many more of them either as it would put off some younger people. I suppose I'm saying that I think that classes should have a right good mix of old/young, pretty/ugly, slim/fat, bright/not so bright, etc.

    On the subject of doing special lessons for special needs. I think this would require careful management. The normal format lesson would not work. In my experienced the moving around the lines would be total chaos. It might work if you could pair up each special needs person with someone who could already dance. However, I really do think they get the most out of it if they just attend a normal class and are treated no differently from other people.

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    Re: Special Needs

    On a number of occasions I have danced with a young girl at the Bromsgrove T dance, to see he face light up when I got her to do Fletch's pose with her arm in the air was worth all the Tea in China

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    Re: Special Needs

    A couple of years ago azande and I were asked to teach a one-off basic MJ class to a group of young adults with special needs (a group of around 30). We chose the most simple moves thinking it would be a real challenge.
    It was nothing of the sort.
    All present were much more used to close contact with each other - they naturally tended to be more huggy and touchy-feely, so that wasn't an issue.
    I took care to ensure that I always used distinct words or phrases to describe each section of the move, and used them repeatedly.
    At the end of the 45 minute class, every single one of them 'chanted' what they were doing, while executing it pretty damn well.
    All in all a success, and something I would be more than happy to do again.

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    Re: Special Needs

    Teaching MJ at the Mencap Gateway group my son attends is one of the highlights of the year for me.

    Teaching at his special school as part of their 'social skills' training is on my calendar and I am looking forward to it massively.

    I have found that integrating special needs adults at our venues has had some minor teething problems - but that has been on the part of some of our less informed and less tolerant dancers, not the special needs guys. Social Skills training can take many forms. After an open and frank discussion about tolerance, acceptance, giving a little more and taking a little less, inclusivity and friendliness, the problems have been resolved.

    The one person who chooses no longer to dance with us doesn't seem to have been missed, the 'special' guys more than fill the void...


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    Re: Special Needs

    I deal with it all the time, Ive always said DTS is special ...

    On a serious not though, Im not good around special needs people and i have always had the greatest respect for people that can deal with people that need a little more patience to be around.

    I am ashamed to admit that i do fail miserably in that department. I feel awkward and uncomfortable. My problem not theirs.

    I started out my young life as a trainee nurse and one of the reasons i left was not being able to handle handicapped/special needs people.

    Would love to know the secret of being confident and comfortable around SN's.

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    Re: Special Needs

    we have a gentleman who comes to burton who has Aspbergers syndrome, he struggled at first but has moved up into intermediate. He is still very insecure and apologises profusely for any mistakes but everyone joins in dancing and making him welcome.

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    Re: Special Needs

    Quote Originally Posted by Trouble View Post
    I started out my young life as a trainee nurse and one of the reasons i left was not being able to handle handicapped/special needs people.

    Would love to know the secret of being confident and comfortable around SN's.

    Unfortunately I'm not sure their is one, I think the more time you spend around individuals with special needs the easier it becomes.

    I was recently involved in leading a training session, where the special needs pupils at my school (it is a fully inclusive school so we teach SN pupils alongside non SN pupils) did presentations to small numbers of staff talking about their difficulties and how this effected their experiences at school. Nearly every pupil said that their favourite teachers were those that treated them like the non SN pupils as much as was possible.

    We often take our SN pupils out to do everyday tasks and activities so that they become more independant. Therefore I would always suggest that unless otherwise asked don't make drastic changes to what you are already doing as this may take away from the experience rather than add to it. If you are unsure, ask their carers if there is anything you could do to aid the learning and enjoyment of the SN individual that attend your classes, if they are good at their job they will be an invaluable source of information.

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    Re: Special Needs

    Quote Originally Posted by Trouble View Post
    Would love to know the secret of being confident and comfortable around SN's.
    Quote Originally Posted by Georgious dancer View Post
    I think the more time you spend around individuals with special needs the easier it becomes.
    I think you've hit the nail on the head there GD. It's fear of the unknown. The more special needs people I've come into contact with the more comfortable I feel.

    I still think though that Trouble and anyone else who feels uncomfortable dancing with someone with special needs, has the right to refuse a dance if they want to don't they?

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    Re: Special Needs

    Quote Originally Posted by Double Trouble View Post
    I do, however, suspect that some people suffer from 'special needs phobias', for want of a better phrase and would avoid dancing with your guys at all costs...might even stop coming to your venue. Personally I wouldn't worry about them. It's their problem if they don't want to dance with someone with special needs and they are entitled to say 'no' to anyone they want.
    Quote Originally Posted by Trouble View Post
    I am ashamed to admit that i do fail miserably in that department. I feel awkward and uncomfortable. My problem not theirs.
    Quote Originally Posted by Georgious dancer View Post
    I think the more time you spend around individuals with special needs the easier it becomes.
    With most people its probably not feeling comfortable because they aren't used to it. I worked with a SN group at a local church for a while, mostly by playing guitar for singing, at first I was uncomfortable too, but that changed as soon as I got to know them and they me. I think some coming along to dancing would be a way of helping people to overcome their fears. Benefits all round.

    I also agree with Andy, not everyone will have the patience that may be required, so it will depend on the venue, number of people and attitude of your dancers whether they will be accepted and how many will be. I'm sure a lot of us would be more than happy to dance with SN dancers but if we are being honest, not all evening every week. I definitely think that its worth the bit of extra thought required to make it work though.

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    Re: Special Needs

    Quote Originally Posted by Double Trouble View Post
    I think you've hit the nail on the head there GD. It's fear of the unknown. The more special needs people I've come into contact with the more comfortable I feel.

    I still think though that Trouble and anyone else who feels uncomfortable dancing with someone with special needs, has the right to refuse a dance if they want to don't they?

    Of course they do! Whilst Ceroc promote a 'yes ethos' I don't feel that any of us should have to dance with someone that makes us feel uncomfortable, whatever the reason may be.

    However, I would encourage everyone to try and find the courage to dance with someone with Special Needs if they were given the opportunity. Not only as I said earlier will an increase in time spent around people with special needs make the whole experience easier, but there is also a great feeing of satisfaction for both yourself and the individual with special needs.

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    Re: Special Needs

    Hi Eric!
    I feel partly responsible for this, if it is the same group of people that I am thinking of. In January, I brought Stephen, a boy with special needs, along with his carer, to Northampton Ceroc.

    A few years previously, I met this boy's father at a dance weekend and we were chatting about his son and my brother, who is also mentally handicapped. The father said how much Stephen loved to dance, but lived so far away that he was unable to take him. I offered straight away but it turned out that his house manager at the time wouldn't allow it.

    Finally last December, I saw both Stephen and his father at Ashtons. The house manager had changed and was more than agreeable to Stephen coming out dancing although, understandably, insisted that a carer come out with us.

    The evening was fantastic - I danced the beginners' class as a fixed couple with Stephen on the sidelines, while his carer joined in the rotation. And Stephen was absolutely brilliant. He could pick up and lead all the moves and remember the sequence with very little prompting. Indeed, as you say, he was a better lead that most of the men there! All the way over to the venue and back again, he was chanting his footsteps in the car (which is quite an achievement considering Ceroc's lack of footwork!).

    I know he was very keen on continuing and took back Ceroc promotional leaflets to show the house manager. I had intended to come along with him once a month. However, since we have only had one working vehicle, this has had to be delayed because I simply couldn't get to him. On speaking to his father, though, he mentioned that one of the carers was now managing to take him out regularly to Ceroc, so I'm really pleased about that.

    I know it could potentially be a very difficult situation, and I don't have any stock answers … My intention in coming with Stephen was for him to dance soley with me, and perhaps one or two other sympathetic follows. It now sounds as though you have a larger group who are looking to be fully integrated in the evening.

    Personally, I wouldn't recommend slowing down the teaching - obviously, that would frustrate the regular dancers, making them less tolerant, and make the special needs group feel 'different'. My brother, for example, is very well aware that he differs in some way from other people (though he's not sure 'how'), and spends his entire life trying to act as if he was the same as them - to the extent that he has created a fantasy world in his head which includes girlfriends, a job, business meetings that he is always having to rush off to …

    As far as possible, there needs to be a very fine balance between treating people with special needs as you would anyone else (partly so that they are not made to feel different, and partly so as they know they will not be allowed to 'get away' with things they know are wrong) and remembering that they will not think with the same logic or rational as the rest of us. So, for example, a completely innocent remark which sparks a huge temper tantrum, may just have been a trigger to something that happened weeks in the past. And no amount of analysing the remark, or logical reasoning will make it better.

    With regard to this group, I would definitely enlist the help of the carer as much as possible, since there will be no-one who understands them better. She may well have some good ideas about how best to handle the refresher class - whether they rotate with everyone or stay dancing with each other, etc. From my limited time with Stephen, I remember him being a very together, polite and responsible boy - he helped carry my drink from the bar, helped me on with my coat at the end of the night, etc - and I can't imagine there would be too many problems if he wished to rotate with everyone else.

    However, we also need to understand that other people may not wish to dance with any special needs people, and that is completely their right. Christ, we all suffer from a fear of the unknown - how we should or shouldn't moderate our behaviour, etc. Before I worked for the blind, I had this awful nervous pitying attitude towards anyone with sight loss, which embarrasses me to think about now …

    So I do think that the carer needs to take a lot of responsibility. For example, instructing her group that they should not ask any random person to dance, and only to dance with people who she has previously checked with and who will come up and ask them personally. The carer also needs to be fully aware that some people will refuse dances and to make sure that any such refusal won't cause too much upset. There may be some people in the group who won't ever be able to integrate fully, and, again, this needs to be determined by the carer.

    For some of the people, unfortunately, this dance environment may not work at all - I would love so much to take my brother out dancing but daren't do it because he would immediately latch onto the prettiest girl in the venue, wouldn't let her go and would get very irate with me if I disturbed him. So it just wouldn't be fair to anyone else. When he's good, my brother's the best, sweetest and funniest person in the world. But when he's not, he can be a nightmare …!

    I like the idea of offering a one-off special event outside of Ceroc just for that group - perhaps if they were holding a Christmas party or something similar. But I suspect that one of the main reasons the dancing is so enjoyable is because they have been given this opportunity to mix with 'normal', tolerant, fun-loving people in the 'real' world.

    In Stephen's case and, I hope for others in the group, I sincerely hope that they can continue with the dancing, as I know they could get so much out of it, but also hope that it creates better understanding amongst the rest of the Ceroc population. Stephen's one of the loveliest guys I have ever met and I smile whenever I think about him - he has already brought more to my life than I could ever have expected. If he is given the opportunity to have half that effect on other people, the world will be a better place.

    Rachel

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    Re: Special Needs

    One of the things I have learned about special needs children is that often music and dancing will reach them when, in extreme cases, little else will get through. I carried some large cardboard rolls, as used for rolls of material, into school with no idea at all why. One of the pupils recognised me, pointed to them excitedly and said what sounded like "Bally high". It transpired they are to be a native hut in "South Pacific" their end of term show. Their end of term musicals are a joy and an inspiration.

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    Re: Special Needs

    I've spent the last six years working to a greater or lesser extent with people who have learning disabilities (special needs), and three of those were in Northampton and South Northants, working solely with those with learning disabilities.

    All the organisations I worked with in Northampton risk assessed all their clients/residents before engaging them in any activity, so it is extremely unlikely that carers would bring along any individual who would pose a risk to themselves or anyone else at the dance venue. Therefore the only individuals who would be likely to be attending would be those with the social skills to cope with the experience.

    It is likely that they will enjoy the current format of ceroc classes: they are structured, following a distinct format that is repeated every week, and do not move that fast from a learning point of view as the beginner moves are repeated over the weeks.

    If you have any concerns I would agree with Rachel, that it is good to involve the carer. However, I would suggest that you try and find a time when the individual and their carer are together. If you direct any questions about the level/appropriateness of the class (or any other concerns) to the individual then you are ensuring you are including them (we all prefer to be talked 'to' rather than talked 'about'). If the individual is unable to answer appropriately then the carer will step in and answer on their behalf.

    From my experience, and common sense, simply treat all people who attend with the same level of dignity and respect. Those with learning disabilities may have below average cognitive skills, but they are often very capable of picking up on emotions, even if they then don't have the ability to express/communicate these. (The notable exception to this is autism.)

    The other punters should have nothing to fear from those with special needs - there should just be some minor allowances made for difficulties in communicating/understanding some concepts and some social skills. Those with special needs are vulnerable due to the above, but their carers are always there to support them.

    Personally I am a great believer in the therapeutic value of dance - it offers a way to express oneself if one is unable to do so any other way. Combine that with the structure and format of the classes (as I've already mentioned) and I reckon that for some people with special needs it will be the perfect activity to help them express themselves, give them meaning in their life, and enable them to engage in general society in a way that most of us take for granted. I hope their presence enriches the evenings for all concerned.

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    Re: Special Needs

    Nessiemonster, what a fantastic sensible response - I also work with young people with learning difficulties, and one of our biggest challenges is finding ways to help them get involved in their local communities. It's really encouraging to read about so many dancers who are so willing and open to involving people with learning difficulties in dance.

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    Re: Special Needs

    What an interesting thread.

    I cannot remember seeing anyone with special needs at classes, but I have danced with a lady who was in a wheelchair and it was a lot of fun.

    You can put me down as a friendly though - I would be more than happy to dance with someone who has special needs.

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    Re: Special Needs

    There has been a dance studio in Australia called the "Merry Makers" who teach special needs people. They perform in Eisteddfords (dance comps) and for charity events as well.
    Co-incidentally I watched a documentary about them on TV last night - and it brought me to tears seeing how much dance has enriched their lives. And it's not just about the music and movement - but a large part is the discipline and focus that has assisted their development, as well as the social aspects dance provides.
    I've attached a link to this post in case anyone is interested in the studio. They did mention that they have a waiting list of people wanting to get into the dance studio because they try to keep the numbers down so they can focus on each individual. I applaud the ceroc venues who are inclusive of special needs folks.
    Merry Makers Australia

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