WCS intro / masterclass discussion

[martingold]

Easily the worlds best freestyle event by the way.

Knowing absolutely nothing about wcs this is the bit that gets me about the post
surely thats subjective we all go to various venues and no doubt have one in particular that we think is the best but to sweepingly say "The worlds best" is going a bit ott dont you think

[Filthy Monkey]

I guess this is similar to the other thread that is running, 'Do you have to be an advanced dancer to teach advanced moves'. So, do you have to be an advanced dancer to teach a short, beginners' intro class to a different dance style? No, of course not. Adam hasn't been doing WCS for long, but he is a very good dancer and has a strong background in lead and follow and in teaching Ceroc. He will have no trouble teaching this class and for people who have never done WCS before, it will give them a great insight into what it's all about. Let's drop the semantics over whether or not it's a master class. It's a short introductory workshop aimed at people who have never done WCS, so whether or not it's taught by experts is largely irrelevant, as long as they can successfully demonstrate and teach the moves they are doing.

For those who have never been to Dance Junction, it is definitely worth the trip as it is once of the best dance venues in the country. Being a purpose built venue, the professional Harlequin dance floors are excellent for spinning on and are far better than anything you will find in the usual rented halls. Jerry and Kam are two of Ceroc's finest and play great music all night and the Blues room is normally very quiet, so you can spend the night smooching away in a corner to sexy music There are mirrors on one of the walls in each room, so you can also check out your own style while you dance. Obviously that's either a good or a bad thing, depending on your technique...

[DS87]

I guess this is similar to the other thread that is running, 'Do you have to be an advanced dancer to teach advanced moves'. So, do you have to be an advanced dancer to teach a short, beginners' intro class to a different dance style? No, of course not. Adam hasn't been doing WCS for long, but he is a very good dancer and has a strong background in lead and follow and in teaching Ceroc. He will have no trouble teaching this class and for people who have never done WCS before, it will give them a great insight into what it's all about. Let's drop the semantics over whether or not it's a master class. It's a short introductory workshop aimed at people who have never done WCS, so whether or not it's taught by experts is largely irrelevant, as long as they can successfully demonstrate and teach the moves they are doing.

I don't think that anyone was really arguing the semantics over whether or not it is a masterclass as that was resolved very early on in the discussion. I do think however that it was right to be mentioned as the title "Masterclass" is missleading and punters might not get what they were expecting.

I don't really have a problem with less experienced people giving an intro to WCS (obviously in an ideal world there would be enough experienced WCS teacher for this not to be necessary) as it may inspire some to search for proper tuition and take up the dance fully. The more who do WCS, at any level, the better in my book!

[David Bailey]

{ snip advert about how wonderful Adam is}

Ahem. Bear in mind that we're not keen on advertising...

Let's drop the semantics over whether or not it's a master class.

Except for the minor detail that this discussion is kind of the point of this thread.

Any more adverts, and the Wrath Of Moderation shall descend, OK?

[Filthy Monkey]

No, not OK. I think you'll find that I was merely stating my opinion, as I respect Adam as both a dancer and a teacher, in the same way that I was stating my opinion about the quality of Dance Junction as a venue. That is very different from advertising.

Perhaps at this point I should state to everyone that I have no commercial interest in either Adam Brown or Dance Junction, nor do I work for Ceroc Kent

Oh, and the point of the thread, judging by the first couple of posts as I see it, is that as Adam is teaching a WCS intro class tonight at Dance Junction, is this now on the CTA syllabus. DS87 then brought up the subject of whether or not it can be called a Masterclass. Sorry, is that semantics again...?

[Chef]

I do think however that it was right to be mentioned as the title "Masterclass" is missleading and punters might not get what they were expecting.

Firstly I would like to say that no one that I have seen on the thread has had a go a Adam Brown personally. For what he has been asked to deliver he is more than up to the job. Contrary to some belief there are a fair few (although a few) WCS dancers dotted around North and central Kent who make silly trips from places like Ashford to get the the classes held at Dartford (When Cat and Lee ran them at Dance Riviera for 6 months) and now the courses and freestyles at Petts Wood (run by Steve Bundy and taught by Paul Warden and Rachel Martino). So if these people see that a "Masterclass" is being advertised turn up then they will feel sorely disappointed if not plainly decieved and suckered in. IMO they would have every right to demand their money back.

The central point is one of misrepresentation. Organisers should not do it because if you fool someone once then they don't often give you the opportunity to do it twice. It is in all organisers best long term interests to state truthfully what they are offering and ensure that they deliver it. Saying things like "probably the best dance in the world" may show that you believe your own hype but it doesn't cut the mustard with the punters.

I don't really have a problem with less experienced people giving an intro to WCS (obviously in an ideal world there would be enough experienced WCS teacher for this not to be necessary) as it may inspire some to search for proper tuition and take up the dance fully. The more who do WCS, at any level, the better in my book!

Like you I would love the WCS scene to grow locally, partly so my car doens't have to suffer so much wear and tear. Unless Ceroc have plans to bring in suitable teachers that will be able to properly teach the underlying technique of WCS then the local area will be just as devoid of WCS tutition as it was before. Except you will have people that want to be taught and still have nowhere to go. The intro to WCS lesson would have served no purpose at all apart from filling a 30 minute slot in a freestyle normally reserved for a "fun class", unless you were going to hand out leaflets to the Westcos event at Petts Wood so they had somewhere to go afterwards.

I was at Beach Boogie one year when Cat Wiles ran a course of 6 lessons on the basics of WCS. We we left the dance holiday (now sadly demised) a gentleman handed me a printed business card which listed him as a "West Coast Swing Dance instructor". I was surprised by this considering that he had struggled during the lessons like the rest of us. He told me with a beaming smile that he had done the course now and he had the cards printed up in anticipation.

I have found over the years that although some teachers can talk the talk not all of them can walk the walk.

[mikeyr]

~snip~ I respect Adam as both a dancer and a teacher:

Hopefully this talented young man will come across to the dark side arth Vader WCS Smiley: :Mmwohahaha Smiley::

As someone in process of teacher training with a US WCS org I can tell you their approach to teaching Beginner WCS is similar to that of MJ, a structured cirriculum of beginner moves that is repeated over an Eight week period with consolidation/review built in and they do so like you to complete at least one of these cycles before you move up.

What makes a class? the teacher more than the content, make the learning experience a good one

[Filthy Monkey]

As someone in process of teacher training with a US WCS org...

Didn't realise you were doing the course. Good luck with that! Let me know when you are starting classes. I'd like to give WCS a try

We do miss you at Ceroc, though...

[DS87]

Oh, and the point of the thread, judging by the first couple of posts as I see it, is that as Adam is teaching a WCS intro class tonight at Dance Junction, is this now on the CTA syllabus. DS87 then brought up the subject of whether or not it can be called a Masterclass. Sorry, is that semantics again...?

I would say that the point was relevant as the whole question arose as to who was teaching on the basis that the class was advertised as a masterclass. I would think that most people would agree (as you stated yourself in the advanced dancer/advanced lesson thread) that the quality of the teacher is far more relevant if the material to be taught is more advanced as one would expect a masterclass to be. If the class had been advertised as an intro to WCS from the beginning then I doubt that any comment would have been made about who was teaching.

Steve

[NZ Monkey]

As someone in process of teacher training with a US WCS org I can tell you their approach to teaching Beginner WCS is similar to that of MJ, a structured cirriculum of beginner moves that is repeated over an Eight week period with consolidation/review built in and they do so like you to complete at least one of these cycles before you move up.

Do they also teach you to count every second beat only and tell you it doesn't matter which foot you step back on?

[David Bailey]

The central point is one of misrepresentation.

Nail. Head.

Calling something a "masterclass", then delivering a "taster class", cheapens the brand and overhypes things.

OK, OK, I've got an obsession with calling things what they actually are (as anyone reading the Blues Lounge debates may spot ) - but that's because I've seen too much hype damage too many brands.

[mikeyr]

Do they also teach you to count every second beat only and tell you it doesn't matter which foot you step back on?

Believe it or not MJ might be making big in the US soon They'll all be watching us on youtube then coming over here to sit at the feet of the oracle(whomever that maybe)

[David Franklin]

Believe it or not MJ might be making big in the US soon They'll all be watching us on youtube then coming over here to sit at the feet of the oracle(whomever that maybe)

I believe Robert Cordoba tried to start some kind of 'MJ thing' back in 2003:

ADV: New Dance Craze!! Lesson @ Let's Dance LA - rec.arts.dance | Google Groups

As far as I'm aware, it didn't come to anything, however.

[Filthy Monkey]

So, how was the Mini Master Class at Rochester? Did anyone make it along?

[locoman]

So, how was the Mini Master Class at Rochester? Did anyone make it along?

class with adam & jan went well, but i'm biased!

[smiley steve]

Hi all, I'm Smiley Steve and I am responsible for WCS in Petts Wood (near Bromley) where Adam has been learning and dancing WCS.

I went along to the class to support him - he had been asked by 'Ceroc' to 'teach' a bit of WCS. I agree it was incorrectly billed (not his fault) but what a great night!

Adam did well to teach some basics and to introduce a further 75-100 people to WCS. If only 10 go on to attend 'proper classes' and take up the dance, then it's 10 more than we would have got without it.

It is difficult to find anyone to teach WCS in our area, as I have found in setting up Westco's.

[David Bailey]

Hi all, I'm Smiley Steve and I am responsible for WCS in Petts Wood (near Bromley) where Adam has been learning and dancing WCS.

Welcome to the forum!

[David Bailey]

Calling something a "masterclass", then delivering a "taster class", cheapens the brand and overhypes things.

Errr.... I've just realised, I may be talking complete rubbish. (I know...)

From one point of view, learning another dance form (at all) is a masterclass - in that, it seems to require an above-average MJ dancer to attempt it.

So whilst it may well be an "intro" in WCS terms, it may be valid to refer to such a class as a master class in MJ terms.

[DS87]

From one point of view, learning another dance form (at all) is a masterclass - in that, it seems to require an above-average MJ dancer to attempt it.

So whilst it may well be an "intro" in WCS terms, it may be valid to refer to such a class as a master class in MJ terms.

Surely this would imply that the other dance form was harder than MJ and also that prior knowledge of MJ would help in learning the other dance form. I do not believe either to be true but I can see where you are coming from.

[David Bailey]

Surely this would imply that the other dance form was harder than MJ

Harder? Mmm... debatable. But "steeper initial learning curve", absolutely.

Pretty much the whole point of MJ is that it's easy to get started with.

and also that prior knowledge of MJ would help in learning the other dance form.

To a point, yes - for example, you're used to some basic concepts (lead-and-follow, for example).

I do not believe either to be true but I can see where you are coming from.

Weelll... to balance it out again, I still think a defining characteristic of a master class should be "small numbers", and I don't know if that fits the bill.

Blimey, I'm arguing with myself now. It had to happen.