That applies to while they are still employed by Ceroc.
I was referring to the hairdressing comparison where in house training is viewed as preferable by other employers other than those the person was trained with. Therefore to apply that comparison to CTA it would need to be extended to teachers leaving Ceroc and seeking employment elsewhere.
As far as I am aware, there are no penalties for labelling yourself after the job you do. Someone who builds things can be called a builder. Someone who sells things can be called a salesman. Someone who preaches can be called a preacher. Someone who drives can be called a driver. So anyone who teaches can be called a teacher.
Qualifications are one method of working out how you can tell the 'value' of the work that person does. They rely on you trusting the qualifying body and the 'value' that they put on their accreditation.
If you trust and value the UKA's input into MJ and value the LeRoc Federation's adherence to the UKA's guidelines, then you will value that qualification. If you trust and value the Ceroc empire's input into MJ, then you will value their qualifications.
There are other methods of working out the 'value' of the work a person does - most common are recommendations and prior experience. Would you employ a tradesman that was recommended over one that proudly displayed qualifications? Would you use a tradesman that you used before if they did a good job?
Qualifications are unnecessary to do a job: the ability to do the job is what is important. Qualifications just act as proof that you can do the job. If you have proof from other sources, (eg recommendations and personal experience), then who do you need to prove it to?
In terms of qualifications for a dance teacher, they are important if you want to market yourself as 'better' than the next dance teacher. They are important if you want to show that you follow the structure of the dance body you qualify under.
(BTW, what is the dance structure of the UKA? From my limited experience it's badges and medals on a plastic plaque for kids. I'm confused how this applies to MJ?)
Then maybe people will train with Ceroc, serve out their time with a couple of years with them, then seek to set up their own nights or work for someone else.
If CTA is seen as a recognised qualification across the MJ world then this would be a reasonable career route for an aspiring teacher to pursue.
You can look at the UKA website for their structure. They are a massive organisation with many, many times the number of teachers that Ceroc have.
On the subject of badges, I have one badge from the UKA. It's metal and enamelled. It's quite a heavy thing and I've never worn it - it did not come with a plastic plaque. However, I did get a plastic plaque for my ballroom medals from the IDTA. The UKA applies to MJ because it certifies MJ teachers - the fact the UKA also certify and give medals to children is something they also do but is a spurious fact spewed out by Gadget. This means Gadget is wrong again. Nothing new
I'm confused about why Gadget is confused. But a most of his posts make little sense to me so there's nothing new to report on the Andy vs Gadget axis.
There are many jobs where qualifications are essential. Surgeon for instance - qualifications and the passing of examinations is an essential part of the pathway to becoming a surgeon. There's loads more jobs where it is essential to be qualified = but most readers of the forum are intelligent enough to know them already.
I also know a couple of people who are fab teachers, dancers, respected by people at their venue but who werent accepted on the CTA course because they didn't fit the look - bit off topic there.
Oops should have read the full thread before posting!
I do also know of one teacher in ceroc who's a shocker at teaching but being used because of his reputation - he's not gone through CTA yet, but didn't know about associate teachers so maybe that's how he's still teaching.
Last edited by emmylou25; 20th-November-2008 at 03:21 PM.
I have - the site's rubbish:
http://www.ukadance.co.uk/
Blimey, Andy, yours is better than that. Not exactly encouraging for a "massive national organisation"...
If you say so - God knows you couldn't get that from the site.
I love this award - it's almost worth trying to join just for that...
I did my medals in the eighties. Plastic was trendy in those days. It was black plastic. I don't think I've kept it but probably have the medals in a carrier bag in the loft.
And I want the teddy trophy too. I think I can probably buy one as a UKA teacher. Perhaps we should have a Forum competition and award one of the teddys as a prize.
I know this is very late in the thread to add something new, but it’s one of the disadvantages of living at GMT+12 when an interesting thread starts.
When I think about which teachers have really inspired me in MJ I’m quite certain none of them have CTA training, and I’m fairly sure they don’t have any other formal training either. For examples I’m thinking the likes of Amir (who was rejected for CTA training!), Simon and Nicole and Nigel and Nina. Although I’ve never actually seen David and Lily teach, I’d be surprised to find they have it themselves.
Those names are just limiting it to the UK as well. Australia has produced a range of very inspiring and able(if usually less well known on this forum…for obvious reasons) teachers without having a formal national certificate or training program in any of the MJ companies that I’m aware of. Similarly, we have excellent teachers here in Auckland who have never seen a teachers training program.
Similarly, there are no formal martial arts teaching courses that I’m aware of in this country – yet somehow excellent teachers still seem to crop up on a regular basis.
Granted, I’ve met a few really bad teachers who didn’t have any training as well, but I can also say the same for those who have completed CTA training. I’ve not seen anyone who I knew had LeRoc training teach so I can’t really comment on that front.
I sometimes wonder if the teaching qualification debate is something of a storm in a tea-cup. MJ clearly doesn’t require the same kind of intensive study and practice that surgery does, and the stakes are considerably lower. In fact it’s deliberately marketed as not requiring these things. Similarly, unless you ignore a very small number of simple safety rules, you’re unlikely to ruin someone’s finances or put a company into receivership if you do a poor job. I think natural teaching talent is more important in this case to be perfectly honest.
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