Dance teaching qualifications

[ant]

IMHO, unless qualifications are independant, they're fairly worthless.

I'm not sure your right there Gav.

I am a quaified accountant and the exams I took were set by the accountancy body that gave me my qualification. This is true of all accountancy qualifications and for many other respected qualifications.

I think that where an organisation sets its own standards it shows that the person who has obtained that qualification has met a minimum standard. How much we may or maynot think of that minimum standard will be tested by time.

For what it is worth I think that within the context of MJ, Ceroc teachers do a good job. I know that the quality of the lessons is going to reach a minimum level that is acceptable to me but on most venue nights you also know that the content is not neccesarily what you want as you get more experienced.

[Gav]

That's like saying I'm qualified by me to do anything I like.
IMHO, unless qualifications are independant, they're fairly worthless.

i tend to disagree
The CTA training is really rather strict i know a few people (who fit the ceroc look) who are great dancers but failed the ceroc teacher exam

You can disagree all you like Martin (that's your prerogative), but how strict or difficult it is is irrelevant.
Imagine two identical people came to you for a job. "A" has a qualification from an independant body (such as C&G, SQA, QCA etc.) and "B" has a qualification from a commercial company in the same line of business which is only internal and NOT independantly verified (such as the ABC Widget Company).

I'm not saying that there's anything wrong with CTA or whatever qualifications may come with it, just that unless it becomes independantly verified, it has little value outside Ceroc.

[Gav]

I'm not sure your right there Gav.

I am a quaified accountant and the exams I took were set by the accountancy body that gave me my qualification. This is true of all accountancy qualifications and for many other respected qualifications.

Indeed, and it is a respected qualification because the accountancy body is in the business of regulating the industry, not in the business of making money from accountancy.

I think that where an organisation sets its own standards it shows that the person who has obtained that qualification has met a minimum standard. How much we may or maynot think of that minimum standard will be tested by time.

I don't disagree with this, however, I don't believe that a Chartered Accountant would ever need to be worried about competing with the person with a certificate from Accountants'R'Us. Therefore, one has considerably more value than the other.

For what it is worth I think that within the context of MJ, Ceroc teachers do a good job. I know that the quality of the lessons is going to reach a minimum level that is acceptable to me but on most venue nights you also know that the content is not neccesarily what you want as you get more experienced.

In general, yes, but that's not to say that you can't have a bad Ceroc teacher or a great non-Ceroc teacher.

[martingold]

In general, yes, but that's not to say that you can't have a bad Ceroc teacher or a great non-Ceroc teacher.

of course this is true but we were talking about qualifications not about whether someone is good or bad after being qualified
I am an electrician and know an awful lot of fully qualified bad electricians

[Dreadful Scathe]

The only way you are guaranteed a qualified teacher is to go to ceroc

Yes, but qualified by Ceroc themselves, and thats not to say that teachers for independants are never qualified, they often are. If you went to a private hospital and all the Doctors there had qualified in that hospital rather than going through standard independant medical training, would you question it?

I'm a qualified Drill Instructor. Does that count?

Yes.

That's like saying I'm qualified by me to do anything I like.
IMHO, unless qualifications are independant, they're fairly worthless.

Indeed, not completely worthless though. The general standard is evident in the end result. And no ones life is at stake due to teaching at a Ceroc class (mostly)
Also, the only really "bad" teaching I've witnessed is from non-ceroc trained teachers.

[Gav]

For what it is worth I think that within the context of MJ, Ceroc teachers do a good job. I know that the quality of the lessons is going to reach a minimum level that is acceptable to me but on most venue nights you also know that the content is not neccesarily what you want as you get more experienced.

In general, yes, but that's not to say that you can't have a bad Ceroc teacher or a great non-Ceroc teacher.

of course this is true but we were talking about qualifications not about whether someone is good or bad after being qualified

Actually that's not entirely accurate is it Martin?
Taken out of context as you did, it seems you have a valid point, but when the part of ant's post that I quoted and replied to is included, you can see that we were discussing whether Ceroc teachers do a good job or not.

[Dreadful Scathe]

i tend to disagree
The CTA training is really rather strict i know a few people (who fit the ceroc look) who are great dancers but failed the ceroc teacher exam

Which is really irrelevant - being a good dancer has nothing at all to do with being a good dance teacher anymore than being a great writer makes you a great English teacher. or being short and blue makes you a smurf. or having eaten your greens makes you a gardener. or being fond of children makes you Gary Glitter. (umm i think i took that too far!)

Also, its worrying that "fitting the Ceroc look" is important enough to mention, as if they already half way to passing the CTA training because they are "cute". What does that say about CTA training ?

Also, it annoys me when people ask me what I want to drink but when I reply "V.A.T please, no ice" , they don't know what I mean! Didn't they ever watch Minder in the 80's? and isn't it obvious anyway?

[Andy McGregor]

what qualifications?

There is only one Modern Jive teaching qualification that I'm aware of. That is the one provided by the LeRoc Federation as part of the UKA. I hold that qualification.

The only way you are guaranteed a qualified teacher is to go to ceroc
All ceroc TEACHERS are qualified to teach modern jive within the ceroc style by ceroc otherwise they are not allowed to call themselves teachers or take a class in ceroc

I don't want to tell Martin that he's wrong. Especially as it's only a technicality. As far as I know Ceroc teachers hold no nationally recognised qualifications. However, Ceroc teachers are well trained and would, almost certainly, pass the exam if they were to take it. However, Ceroc is a company which offers in-house training with no external assessment or examination.

Looking at the accountancy exmple above. Would you prefer an accountant who had no nationally recognised qualifications but had received in-house training or would you like one who had passed nationally recognised exams?

.. oh...


..err ...

.. thinks about smiley ..

.. should it be ..



or

or

or

.. so much to choose from

[Andy McGregor]

Also, its worrying that "fitting the Ceroc look" is important enough to mention, as if they already half way to passing the CTA training because they are "cute". What does that say about CTA training ?

Smurfs need not apply?

[David Bailey]

The only way you are guaranteed a qualified teacher is to go to ceroc
All ceroc TEACHERS are qualified to teach modern jive within the ceroc style by ceroc otherwise they are not allowed to call themselves teachers or take a class in ceroc

Yeah, but they can't generally teach dancing

i tend to disagree
The CTA training is really rather strict i know a few people (who fit the ceroc look) who are great dancers but failed the ceroc teacher exam

So what you're saying is, Ceroc cares more about the look than about actual ability?

[ant]

Moderators please start a new thread

Moderators please start a new thread and transfer all the posts relating to teacher qualifications there. I think this is an interesting topic and is off topic for this thread.

[martingold]

Yeah, but they can't generally teach dancing

your only jealous that they dont teach standing still
oh actually i think you call it tango

So what you're saying is, Ceroc cares more about the look than about actual ability?

i dont think i said that perhaps you have the wrong glasses on this morning Mr bailey

[martingold]

anyway all said and done in dancing as in life those that can do do those that cant teach

[martingold]

Also, its worrying that "fitting the Ceroc look" is important enough to mention,

Ah now i mentioned that as i know certain people on here are pedantic enough that if i didnt they would have bought it up anyway arent they mr scathe?

[Andy McGregor]

Moderators please start a new thread

Moderators please start a new thread and transfer all the posts relating to teacher qualifications there. I think this is an interesting topic and is off topic for this thread.

Let's call it "Ceroc Teachers Aren't Qualified to Teach".

Just kidding

How about "Do Teaching Qualifications Matter in Modern Jive?"

[Phil_dB]

Moderators please start a new thread

Moderators please start a new thread and transfer all the posts relating to teacher qualifications there. I think this is an interesting topic and is off topic for this thread.

Glad someone noticed

Upon recieving conflicting advice from two qualified teachers, I’d probably choose to go with the one whose dance style I was most fond of.

[David Bailey]

Moderators please start a new thread

Moderators please start a new thread and transfer all the posts relating to teacher qualifications there. I think this is an interesting topic and is off topic for this thread.

Done.

For people's future reference, the best way to attract moderator attention is to use the Report button.

[David Bailey]

Upon recieving conflicting advice from two qualified teachers, I’d probably choose to go with the one whose dance style I was most fond of.

You get this a lot in Tango, actually - and yes, that's partially because there isn't a central standards body at all, in the way that Ceroc is (de facto) for Modern Jive.

However, a lot of the time, you find that "conflicting advice" is just different ways of approaching the same thing, or of solving the same problem.

But yes, sometimes you do have to make a choice, and in the end you should go with the one you think helps you the most. Qualifications are over-rated.

[Dreadful Scathe]

Ah now i mentioned that as i know certain people on here are pedantic enough that if i didnt they would have bought it up anyway arent they mr scathe?

ah but you preempted it, so the abuse is all yours

[ant]

Originally Posted by Gav
I don't believe that a Chartered Accountant would ever need to be worried about competing with the person with a certificate from Accountants'R'Us. Therefore, one has considerably more value than the other.

I find all accountants compete with each other whether qualified or not and with their potentual clients. Some people do this type of work for themselves, others think it an unneccesary evil and go for the cheapest option, others consider the qualification to be important.

Originally Posted by Gav
Indeed, and it is a respected qualification because the accountancy body is in the business of regulating the industry, not in the business of making money from accountancy

I agree that making money is one criteria in determining the respect that a qualification may have BUT this is a double edged sword. If you take money and other practical considerations out of the equation you can end up with a totally useless but on the surface fantictic qualification. However a brand like Ceroc know that they have to maintain that brand in order to make money and one way I think they do this is to ensure that their teachers are up to standard.

Originally Posted by Gav
In general, yes, but that's not to say that you can't have a bad Ceroc teacher or a great non-Ceroc teacher.

I agree that there must be good and bad Ceroc teachers. However their quaifications only suggest they have met a minimum standard during their assessment. I do think that the market does then weed the out because I find it difficult to think of any Ceroc teacher who has been really bad.