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Thread: Dispatches

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    Dispatches

    Just watching this now - ad break.

    Section of film in a faith 'school' in Bristol, run by Carmel Church, or something.

    A little girl is taking a 'science' test. Her teacher prays with her.

    The questions are: "How many days did God take to make the earth?" - Six
    ...and lots more just like that. Not an ounce of science anywhere. No 'how many grams in a kilogram' or "how many 125cc glasses in a litre".

    The curriculum (they don't have to follow the national curriculum, apparently) is imported from America.

    I'm gobsmacked. I really thought we were ahead of the US on this.

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    Re: Dispatches

    I saw that.

    Theres a part where a lady (can't remember her name) but she's the leader of an group related to a church and she's trys to protest against abortion etc. They do the protest in London. Only saw some of that and it really annoyed me so i switched over back to Friends.

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    Re: Dispatches

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry Shnikov View Post
    Just watching this now - ad break.

    Section of film in a faith 'school' in Bristol, run by Carmel Church, or something.

    A little girl is taking a 'science' test. Her teacher prays with her.

    The questions are: "How many days did God take to make the earth?" - Six
    ...and lots more just like that. Not an ounce of science anywhere. No 'how many grams in a kilogram' or "how many 125cc glasses in a litre".

    The curriculum (they don't have to follow the national curriculum, apparently) is imported from America.

    I'm gobsmacked. I really thought we were ahead of the US on this.
    Heck, all my science tests were either multiple choice or chemistry experiments that never worked (maybe they ask her about grams etc in maths or home economics?).

    I see your point and I'm vaguely shocked that they can pass this stuff off as education, but, having a son at a rather normal, national curriculum led primary school, I'm a bit shocked at what they pass off as education these days too!

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    Re: Dispatches

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry Shnikov View Post
    Just watching this now - ad break.

    Section of film in a faith 'school' in Bristol, run by Carmel Church, or something.

    A little girl is taking a 'science' test. Her teacher prays with her.

    The questions are: "How many days did God take to make the earth?" - Six
    ...and lots more just like that. Not an ounce of science anywhere. No 'how many grams in a kilogram' or "how many 125cc glasses in a litre".

    The curriculum (they don't have to follow the national curriculum, apparently) is imported from America.

    I'm gobsmacked. I really thought we were ahead of the US on this.
    I was somewhat shocked as well, not because they were passing this off as education, but because of the way they were warping these children's psyches by the indoctrination techniques. The fundamentalist headteacher was slippery as an eel, abortion lawyer lady seemed rather mad but knew it was important not to appear so, the seagull-sh*t morality campaigner lost it in a rather refreshing kind of way - shame he didn't deck the cameraman. But then, the interviewer was keen for them all to appear that way, it suited his agenda. I was left wondering why the intelligent, sane, balanced churchpeople with some genuine spiritual clout (and I know there must be some) weren't invited to appear - not such good telly, I guess, but I am pleased that the fundamentalist crew are being given the opportunity to show themselves up.
    Last edited by jivecat; 19th-May-2008 at 10:01 PM. Reason: No swearing on the forum. Forgot.

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    Re: Dispatches

    Next up: a poor bloke whose religion has turned his head. He has a piece of paper sellotaped to the ceiling above the head of his bed, with Jesus written on it, to stop him having impure thoughts when he wakes up in the morning.

    Because when you masturbate, apparently, you take something pure which is given to you by god and pervert it.



    He's 29, a virgin, lives on his own but is getting married soon.

    Um...

    God help his wife.

    Also - a lady barrister who has 'given up her career' to devote herself to political activism on behalf of fundamentalist christianity.

    Actually, when she starts to spout about the 'evidence' that shows that children of homosexual couples are less likely to finish school, more likely to have this, that or the other undesirable characteristic, it's clear that she had no future as a barrister anyway as she is unable to attach proper weight to evidence. Or possibly even to distinguish what constitutes evidence in the first place.

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    Re: Dispatches

    Finally, lying for Jee-zus again.

    The head of the school - the one with the suspect science curriculum - was asked 'How old is the earth?' and he pretended not to know what his answer was.

    Now, he's a fundamentalist christian, member of a fundamentalist christian church and head of a fundamentalist christian school; he looks to be in his late 30s at least.

    And he never heard that Archbishop Usher calculated (by adding together the begats and begots and all the other chronology evidence in the Old Testament) that the earth was made in 4003 bc? Don't lie, buster. You may be a hysterically stupid yahoo and a danger to the intelligence of the children you have in your care, but at least have the courage of your convictions, man.

    The lady barrister tried to fudge the same question.

    I suppose that's a good sign. In the US they'd be proud of their ridiculous belief.

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    Re: Dispatches

    Quote Originally Posted by jivecat View Post
    I was left wondering why the intelligent, sane, balanced churchpeople with some genuine spiritual clout (and I know there must be some) weren't invited to appear - not such good telly, I guess...
    Well, to be fair he was trying to put forward a thesis about the political ambitions of these people, and I guess your 'balanced churchpeople' don't have those ambitions.

    In fact, I suspect that they don't have much clout and that would have made perhaps a better if less-easily-sold documentary.

    If those few are the best the fundamentalists can come up with, there isn't that much of a threat. With the exception of the school. That really was a species of child abuse.

    "People who didn't like god were turned into salt. It really happened, the Bible tells us so!" is not what 7 year olds should be being taught. Unless they are at the same time being taught that there really was a giant living in the clouds at the top of the beanstalk...etc.

    OK, quick poll. Who looked the most crazy? For my money, it was the barrister. Perhaps it was me but despite keeping herself in check very professionally, I thought I saw a batshit glimmer in her face, from time to time...

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    Re: Dispatches

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry Shnikov View Post
    Not an ounce of science anywhere. No 'how many grams in a kilogram' or "how many 125cc glasses in a litre".
    Actually, Barry, that would be in the Maths curriculum, strictly speaking.

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    Re: Dispatches

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry Shnikov View Post
    OK, quick poll. Who looked the most crazy? For my money, it was the barrister. Perhaps it was me but despite keeping herself in check very professionally, I thought I saw a batshit glimmer in her face, from time to time...
    Yep i agree though i only saw parts of it. She annoyed me so much!!!

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    Re: Dispatches

    Quote Originally Posted by Tiger Feet View Post
    Heck, all my science tests were either multiple choice or chemistry experiments that never worked (maybe they ask her about grams etc in maths or home economics?).

    I see your point and I'm vaguely shocked that they can pass this stuff off as education, but, having a son at a rather normal, national curriculum led primary school, I'm a bit shocked at what they pass off as education these days too!
    She was very young, and the science I was doing at that age was 'capacity', e.g, where we filled cups with jugs of water and read off the index on the side, and learned the relationship between pints and gallons () everyone got wet and happy.

    They did show a clip of a text book with a few words from a much older, teenaged girl. It said that the Apollo astronauts discovered that the moon is "6,000 to 10,000 years old", which apparently tallies with what fundies already knew, which is that the earth is about the same age.

    As I recall Buzz Aldrin became 'born again', but I'm pretty sure he'd be astonished to learn that some people still believe the moon is only 10,000 years old, max.

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    Re: Dispatches

    Quote Originally Posted by jivecat View Post
    Actually, Barry, that would be in the Maths curriculum, strictly speaking.
    Jesus, people, not for six/seven years old. At least, not when I was that age.

    Anyway, that's missing the point. The point is that how many days god made the world in isn't in science or maths, in any world that has any sense to it.

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    Re: Dispatches

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry Shnikov View Post
    Unless they are at the same time being taught that there really was a giant living in the clouds at the top of the beanstalk...etc.
    No problem with that, 7 year olds know when adults are bullsh*tting. But these adults weren't, they were deadly serious......
    OK, quick poll. Who looked the most crazy? For my money, it was the barrister. Perhaps it was me but despite keeping herself in check very professionally, I thought I saw a batshit glimmer in her face, from time to time...
    My money's on the barrister too. The other two so very clearly were prey to base human frailties and unable to conceal them. However, I switched off about 8:15, maybe I missed some prime lunacy.

    Oi, how come you can say sh*t on the forum but I can't? What a difference a dash makes.

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    Re: Dispatches

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry Shnikov View Post
    The curriculum (they don't have to follow the national curriculum, apparently) is imported from America.
    I can't believe that children in this country don't have to be educated to the national curriculum. That is scary stuff, especially if the American trend for fundamentalists to home school their children becomes popular here.

    This reminded me, someone I work with is studying for a Biology Higher at the moment and was showing me the textbook last week. In the chapter on genetics, the author kept going on about "when the man and woman get married..." instead of "when the male and female reproduce" and keeps going off on irrelevant rants about how to raise and discipline children properly.

    I had to read it to believe it!

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    Re: Dispatches

    Not commenting on the programme itself as I didn't see it... but..
    Quote Originally Posted by Barry Shnikov View Post
    And he never heard that Archbishop Usher calculated (by adding together the begats and begots and all the other chronology evidence in the Old Testament) that the earth was made in 4003 bc? Don't lie, buster. You may be a hysterically stupid yahoo and a danger to the intelligence of the children you have in your care, but at least have the courage of your convictions, man.
    4004 I think, and I've never, anywhere, heard that being taught, suggested or in any way implied to be a 'conviction' of any church I've ever been to. I don't think the Bible is meant to be added up like that to give a 'date' for creation and I don't think it makes any difference whatsoever to what people believe about the universe being created or being some cosmic 'accident' by having some sort of a 'date' applied.

    I believe in creation *pause while you laugh* and I have no idea exactly how old the earth is and it doesn't in any way affect my belief in God as Creator. I don't think that is a lack of 'courage of my convictions', but then you're probably still laughing or shaking your head anyway...

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    Re: Dispatches

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry Shnikov View Post
    Jesus, people, not for six/seven years old. At least, not when I was that age.
    'Fraid not. All seven year olds have to be taught that a kilogram contains 1000gm, if I have understood the national Curriculum rightly. And the brighter seven year olds might have to attempt problems not dissimilar to the second example. The days of getting wet and happy end around 6 years now.

    Anyway, that's missing the point. The point is that how many days god made the world in isn't in science or maths, in any world that has any sense to it.
    Oh, er, yes, quite, missing the point . So sorry, tactless of me to make it appear as though you were, like, wrong, about anything. Just shows the sort of trouble pedantry can get you into. We can't all be as clever and relentlessly focussed as you, Barry. How on earth did we get on to talking about the infant curriculum anyway?

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    Re: Dispatches

    Quote Originally Posted by Lynn View Post
    I believe in creation *pause while you laugh* and I have no idea exactly how old the earth is and it doesn't in any way affect my belief in God as Creator. I don't think that is a lack of 'courage of my convictions', but then you're probably still laughing or shaking your head anyway...
    I don't understand why anyone would laugh or shake their head...if your beliefs make sense to you, give comfort to you, make life meaningful etc etc, while doing no harm to anyone else, why in the world would anyone feel the need to mock them?

    Quote Originally Posted by jivecat View Post
    How on earth did we get on to talking about the infant curriculum anyway?
    I mentioned it. I have so many concerns about the lack of fundamental reading and writing skills being taught and the attainment of 'eco-school' status being made more important. But that's not important right now. So, how old is the moon?

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    Re: Dispatches

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry Shnikov View Post

    Anyway, that's missing the point. The point is that how many days god made the world in isn't in science or maths, in any world that has any sense to it.
    It's not, honey...it's just more light hearted than you were looking for. I get your point.

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    Re: Dispatches

    Quote Originally Posted by Tiger Feet View Post



    I mentioned it.
    Sshhhhhh!

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    Re: Dispatches

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry Shnikov View Post
    She was very young, and the science I was doing at that age was 'capacity', e.g, where we filled cups with jugs of water and read off the index on the side, and learned the relationship between pints and gallons () everyone got wet and happy.
    Yeah, I liked that. Better still was in first year (age 11-12) chemistry, when the teacher tried to make the lid of a tin fly off using custard powder and a candle. The candle wouldn't light, so she started talking to it, saying "Come on little candle, light for me, light for Dr. Allison". I think that was when I formed the opinion that scientists are deranged.

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry Shnikov View Post
    They did show a clip of a text book with a few words from a much older, teenaged girl. It said that the Apollo astronauts discovered that the moon is "6,000 to 10,000 years old", which apparently tallies with what fundies already knew, which is that the earth is about the same age.
    I agree that it's silly, but is it really harmful? Is it really a species of child abuse? The kids will grow up, unless they really are being abused and locked in cellars etc. They'll be exposed to other ideas and opinions (and hard facts) and they'll choose what to believe for themselves. Does it really matter when the moon was created? Is it harmful for someone to think it's only 10,000 years old? Should I be deeply concerned that, despite my best efforts to persuade him otherwise, my eight year old insists that he wants to believe in Adam and Eve?

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    Re: Dispatches

    Quote Originally Posted by Lynn View Post
    Not commenting on the programme itself as I didn't see it... but..4004 I think, and I've never, anywhere, heard that being taught, suggested or in any way implied to be a 'conviction' of any church I've ever been to. I don't think the Bible is meant to be added up like that to give a 'date' for creation and I don't think it makes any difference whatsoever to what people believe about the universe being created or being some cosmic 'accident' by having some sort of a 'date' applied.

    I believe in creation *pause while you laugh* and I have no idea exactly how old the earth is and it doesn't in any way affect my belief in God as Creator. I don't think that is a lack of 'courage of my convictions', but then you're probably still laughing or shaking your head anyway...
    I absolutely agree that it isn't mainstream christian thought nowadays. However, reading my post shows that I was careful to link it to his fundamentalist beliefs; and fundamentalists do accept Usher's dating (in essence).

    No laughing or shaking head.

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