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Thread: A musicality spin-off

  1. #41
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    Re: A musicality spin-off

    Quote Originally Posted by mikeyr View Post
    I would be happy to demonstrate either for you.
    If we can combine this with Amir's call for everyone to get naked, we may have our first forum live time video exerience...

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    Re: A musicality spin-off

    Quote Originally Posted by robd View Post
    I am not sure musicality is inherent to a dance style but it may be easier to execute in some than others.
    I have a theory!
    The anchor step is a great boon to musicality In WCS you have this whacking great big pause just sitting there at the end of most patterns. It's a golden invitation to body rolls, lowering and raising, finger clicks, whatever.
    In that sense, regarding the first forays into musicality and that kind of 'hold and play at the extension' musicality, WCS is easier than MJ in that it has this invitation built in. (and, of course, WCS beginners usually get slower music than MJ lesson nights dish up. That helps too).

    In non-Blues MJ you have to 'make' that invitation. That requires more communication thru the connection and a lead/follow that know how to use it. Generally that means more advanced dancers required to get those first 'hold and play' baby steps.

    This is a function of the dances themselves that distorts musicality ability and why WCS at (relatively) the beginner level does appear to have more musicality.
    Once you start talking about the more advanced dancers tho.....

    Quote Originally Posted by robd View Post
    Ultimately it's down to the practitioners of the dance style and WCS currently has a head start in this respect given the exposure of the US Pros via You Tube and our good fortune in having Paul W as a UK role model. MJ, in my opinion doesn't yet have people dancing with musicality at the same level as these people but that's not a fault of MJ, it just hasn't developed to that level yet (whether it ever will is another matter for debate)
    Mmm, I think that's debatable.
    The US pros are top of the tree, that can't be disputed, but MJ doesn't really have any equivalent thus whenever you pull the US pros into the argument, you are not comparing like to like.

    What would be a better comparison would be the top UK WCS'ers and the top UK MJ'ers at the same pace (I.E. MJ blues room V WCS freestyle). Looking at the two as a whole, I don't think there is that much difference to be honest. IMO.



    Quote Originally Posted by CJ View Post
    MJ picks a represntative: WCS picks a representative.
    They spin at different times to different pieces of music and the audience judges who is more musical.
    For MJ, I propose Jamie "Peter Pan" Storey.
    Quote Originally Posted by NZ Monkey View Post
    For WCS I propose Lee Easton. I watched perform something around the mid 20's unassisted pirouettes before a Twickenham class once. He was doing flash flicky stuff with the spare leg the whole way through....
    This is like, the dance equivalent of 'mine is bigger than yours', yes?

  3. #43
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    Re: A musicality spin-off

    Quote Originally Posted by TA Guy View Post
    Mmm, I think that's debatable.
    The US pros are top of the tree, that can't be disputed, but MJ doesn't really have any equivalent thus whenever you pull the US pros into the argument, you are not comparing like to like.
    But that's my whole point. People do not compare like for like because the scenes are not like for like. Whether it's fair or not, many people base their view of WCS on seeing the top people on You Tube or at a weekender so it would seem daft to leave them out of the argument.

    Quote Originally Posted by TA Guy View Post
    What would be a better comparison would be the top UK WCS'ers and the top UK MJ'ers at the same pace (I.E. MJ blues room V WCS freestyle). Looking at the two as a whole, I don't think there is that much difference to be honest. IMO.
    Without wishing to get into the 'mine's bigger than yours debate' as you described it I'd expect the top UK WCS'ers (Paul W, Lee Easton and probably Graham Fox) to dance more musically than the top UK MJ'ers (pick any three current competitors you like) but then, perception is everything. Below that level, I'll concede it's a lot more even.

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    Re: A musicality spin-off

    Quote Originally Posted by mikeyr View Post
    Its Called a "Rock and Go" in WCS. The simple version: where the follower is led to step back on her right for "1" and then led forward to replace the weight fully on her left on "2" then the rest of the pattern as normal.
    When I was taught "Rock and Go" it was three steps, so it was analogous to a Modern Jive rock step, but a little different. I'll have to look out for the two step version, which sounds pretty much identical from your description.

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    Re: A musicality spin-off

    While I agree that the anchour step does help with introducing musicality at a beginner level....
    Quote Originally Posted by TA Guy View Post
    Once you start talking about the more advanced dancers tho.....

    Mmm, I think that's debatable.
    The US pros are top of the tree, that can't be disputed, but MJ doesn't really have any equivalent thus whenever you pull the US pros into the argument, you are not comparing like to like.
    So we can't compare the top from both dance styles as it wouldn't be fair? Why not?

    I can see a case that pro dancers are always going to have an advantage and that there are no pro's in the MJ circuit, which is fair enough. Even so, comparing the top amateurs in WCS with those in MJ is still fairly one-sided IMO, although closer. You could probably name most of the MJ dancers who routinely exhibit the same fantastic musicality in MJ across the UK, which isn't a good sign.

    Granted, the number of those top amateurs in WCS in the UK is tiny. As Robd has mentioned there are likely only two men who qualify (Lee is a pro dancer in linedancing and C&W, so he doesn't count). I'm not as sure of the women. The numbers rise dramatically once you hit the USA however.


    This is like, the dance equivalent of 'mine is bigger than yours', yes?
    More a case of tounge-in-cheek sillyness than anything else I think you'll find TA Guy

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    Re: A musicality spin-off

    Quote Originally Posted by NZ Monkey View Post
    While I agree that the anchour step does help with introducing musicality at a beginner level....So we can't compare the top from both dance styles as it wouldn't be fair? Why not?
    Well, you can obviously, but I don't think it serves any useful purpose other than to 'big up' one dance over another. It's like giving one person six months to study for an interview, and another person one day, and comparing results to see who you hire. Pointless exercise unless you take into account the difference in revision time.


    Quote Originally Posted by NZ Monkey View Post
    I can see a case that pro dancers are always going to have an advantage and that there are no pro's in the MJ circuit, which is fair enough. Even so, comparing the top amateurs in WCS with those in MJ is still fairly one-sided IMO, although closer.
    I think we are going to have to agree to disagree.
    I fully accept that UK WCS has some awesome dancers with excellent musicality, and a case can always be made for XXX is better than YYY, but I really don't think this massive musicality gap over MJ that you claim exists actually does.

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