Glasgow Rangers Fans in Manchester

[Gus]

What will be forgotten is the cack-handed way the authorities first tried to stop the ticketless hordes going to Manchester, then decided not to enforce the existing law against drinking alcohol in a public place, then provided inadequately-sized fanzones with a non-working screen, then sent in police with inadequate training in crowd control. There was no forward planning by the authorities for what was going to be a difficult match to police, basically because they probably never believed Rangers would get to the final.

Sorry ... but that shows no understanding of what was happening. I had the chance to discuss the situation with a colleague who formerly held a senior position within the Police. The simple fact is that there were TOO MANY PEOPLE. No police force could cope with the unexpected influx of Scots ... around 140,000 according to the figures I heard. the police tactics during the day, which I saw in action, were great and mostly effective. Small groups of highly visible, very friendly cops calmly helping the Scots around. With that many people, many bringing their own booze, how could they have enforced the no-drinking rule?

What amazed and dressed myslef, and all my colleagues, was the intent of nearly every Scot I saw was to gett absolutely smashed. It was the MINORITY who were acting responsibly. The one miracle is that there wasn't a full scale riot. Manchester is STILL cleaning up ... and many areas still smell like the public toilet they became. Make no mistake ... for anyone who was actually in Manchester that day, the Rangers supporters will not be welcome again ... and unfortunately the whole reputation of Scottish supports has been (unfairly) tarnished

[Dreadful Scathe]

Make no mistake ... for anyone who was actually in Manchester that day, the Rangers supporters will not be welcome again ... and unfortunately the whole reputation of Scottish supports has been (unfairly) tarnished

Not just the Scots - they were singing UVF songs (rather predictably of course) on TV tonight when i saw the clips, bound to be a few from Northern Ireland in there. I've got to say though, any groups of Rangers fans I've ever met always have the dodgy contingent within them - i've not seen that with other club teams and there is NONE of that with the tartan army.

[Stuart M]

Not just the Scots - they were singing UVF songs (rather predictably of course) on TV tonight when i saw the clips, bound to be a few from Northern Ireland in there. I've got to say though, any groups of Rangers fans I've ever met always have the dodgy contingent within them - i've not seen that with other club teams and there is NONE of that with the tartan army.

More than a few, going by the number of Red Hands of Ulster flags in the stadium itself. I think I saw one Saltire among the sea of Red Hands and Union Jacks .

I'm interested to know what Strathclyde Police were doing in all this. Rangers' regular support is 50k or thereabouts; it stands to reason that among the 150,000 heading for this game would be the fringe elements. Couple that with the fact that they could quite easily bring booze along themselves, and you have the scenario of Glasgow Green, post Orange Walk day. Multiplied by about a thousand. Anyone who's witnessed the delightful scenes after that shindig should have seen what was coming. If I'd been Chief Constable at Strathclyde, I'd have been telling my equivalent at GMP* to batten down the hatches.

On the plus side, this will maybe shut up all those types calling for a British football team, like Lord Coe. There in Manchester on Wednesday, ladies and gentlemen, was your core support

*None of this would have happened if they'd had the Gene Genie in charge, you know

[John S]

Gus, I am not defending in any way the behaviour of the Rangers fans, and I hope the rest of my post that you did NOT quote made that clear - my local town has been subject to their 17th century bigoted behaviour often enough, and I have witnessed fans of all clubs (including my own) pissing in public places - it is disgusting and I don't blame Manchester for never wanting to see Scottish fans there again.

What I AM saying though is that as soon as Nacho Novo's penalty went in at the semi-final, Manchester would be having to cope with over 100 000 Rangers fans, and the authorities' reaction to that was inadequate. That does not excuse the fans' behaviour, but it does call into question how it was handled.

Practical suggestions that were not followed?
- Open Old Trafford (accommodates >70 000) and put up screens there
- Have crush barriers in the fanzones
- Make clear beforehand that "no alcohol in a public place" laws will be enforced, and follow through on it (I don't care how many are lifted)
- Ditto singing of sectarian songs
- No glass bottles/containers allowed in fanzones

But I agree that everyone must take responsibility for his/her behaviour and I apologise to Manchester for what you had to put up with.

[Gus]

Gus, I am not defending in any way the behaviour of the Rangers fans, and I hope the rest of my post that you did NOT quote made that clear

John, sorry mate ... wasn't trying to make out that you were .... much of what you said has also been discussed down here and you made some excellent points.

I think the key point was that there was not an expectation of the vast numbers travelling down .... I must admit the logic of travelling 300 miles to sit on a street to watch a game you could watch on a street in your home town does escape me.

I don't know if Manchester City council could have done better. Then idea of using another football field is a good question ... but crash barriers were put up ... but just the pure force of numbers made most initiative useless. Have you SEEN 100.000 plus people in a town centre? Its a beautiful but scary sight. I don't know of any conventional tactics to control that many people in a town centre

[Tiger Feet]

.... I must admit the logic of travelling 300 miles to sit on a street to watch a game you could watch on a street in your home town does escape me.

[stewart38]

I've said it on a different thread but if it was up to me I would have the police open fire on such utter scum.

The level of disrespect to people and property from these 'supporters' is an absolute disgrace. To go further and attack Police is absolutely and unequivocally inexcusable.

Now my response is obviously heavy-handed but I say the world would be a better place without these low-lives.

I wonder what will happen to 'our lads' in Moscow (Manchester and Chelsea tomorrow)

Should they find the need to get a bit naughty

I've said before if they cause trouble in Mosocow Ill have my police offciers open fire on the scum.

The level of disrespect to people and property from these 'supporters' will not be tolerated. If you attack the Police you will be shot
Now my response is obviously heavy handed but I say the Moscow would be a better place without these low-lives.