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Thread: Glasgow Rangers Fans in Manchester

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    Commercial Operator Gus's Avatar
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    Glasgow Rangers Fans in Manchester

    Was curious. I wonder what the perception of the mid-week happenings were up North of the border.

    Having endured the fans presence on Wednesday my views are obviously coloured ... but I was surprised to read that some Scottish MPs were demanding an inquiry into the "heavy handed" policing. The fans interviewed on TV seemed somewhat less than apologetic aswell, though sub-titles were unfortunately lacking. Wondered what the 'man on the treet' thought of the goings on.

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    Re: Glasgow Rangers Fans in Manchester

    from what I've read and the footage ive seen - the police were just doing their job. There is no excuse for abuse or assault on anyone, especially the police. Of course it remains to be seen exactly WHO was running amok - Rangers FC are claiming they were not Rangers supporters. I hope they can identify anyone involved and ban them from any football event again ever.

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    Teacher Paul F's Avatar
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    Re: Glasgow Rangers Fans in Manchester

    I've said it on a different thread but if it was up to me I would have the police open fire on such utter scum.

    The level of disrespect to people and property from these 'supporters' is an absolute disgrace. To go further and attack Police is absolutely and unequivocally inexcusable.

    Now my response is obviously heavy-handed but I say the world would be a better place without these low-lives.

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    Re: Glasgow Rangers Fans in Manchester

    Quote Originally Posted by Gus View Post
    Was curious. I wonder what the perception of the mid-week happenings were up North of the border.

    Having endured the fans presence on Wednesday my views are obviously coloured ... but I was surprised to read that some Scottish MPs were demanding an inquiry into the "heavy handed" policing. The fans interviewed on TV seemed somewhat less than apologetic as well, though sub-titles were unfortunately lacking. Wondered what the 'man on the treet' thought of the goings on.
    I was aware that there was one MSP who very quickly retracted his statement once he had seen more of the footage. Criminal and abusive behaviour is criminal and abusive wherever the perps happen to come from - I don't expect there is much difference in sentiment up here to that down there, disgust, horror and concern for those who were harmed.

    Collective responsibility ...should fans quite possibly not involved in the violence have been apologetic because they are Rangers supporters? I am reckoning they were possibly not the most articulate of public speakers Should all Glaswegians be sorry?

    My own collective conscience generally leads me to apologise for things ever done by the English, catholics, and women but I'm not sure it's always a good response

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    Re: Glasgow Rangers Fans in Manchester

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul F View Post
    I've said it on a different thread but if it was up to me I would have the police open fire on such utter scum.

    The level of disrespect to people and property from these 'supporters' is an absolute disgrace. To go further and attack Police is absolutely and unequivocally inexcusable.

    Now my response is obviously heavy-handed but I say the world would be a better place without these low-lives.
    *Sigh*

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    Re: Glasgow Rangers Fans in Manchester

    Quote Originally Posted by Freudian Hips View Post
    My own collective conscience generally leads me to apologise for things ever done by the English, catholics, and women but I'm not sure it's always a good response
    You have a collective conscience? Wow.

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    Registered User cat's Avatar
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    Re: Glasgow Rangers Fans in Manchester

    Well i started off being pretty proud that picadilly gardens was a see of blue, but now im really disgusted with the way some of the fans behaved. Several friends came to work the next day saying they had been called English c**ts but scottish people and some had been really scared when caught in the riots.

    Saying that, Manchester didnt plan it very well. For other big matches they have stopped selling alcohol and i think this could have been a good idea for the town centre for this match. Also not a good idea to invite that many people down to watch it on big screens and then not have it working. But violence is unacceptable and the police were entirely justified in controlling it and protecting themselves.

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    Registered User stewart38's Avatar
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    Re: Glasgow Rangers Fans in Manchester

    Were they scottish thugs or Rangers thugs

    There was some debate on talk sport about that

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    Lovely Moderator ducasi's Avatar
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    Re: Glasgow Rangers Fans in Manchester

    Quote Originally Posted by Gus View Post
    Was curious. I wonder what the perception of the mid-week happenings were up North of the border.

    Having endured the fans presence on Wednesday my views are obviously coloured ... but I was surprised to read that some Scottish MPs were demanding an inquiry into the "heavy handed" policing. The fans interviewed on TV seemed somewhat less than apologetic aswell, though sub-titles were unfortunately lacking. Wondered what the 'man on the treet' thought of the goings on.
    I haven't seen so much of the reportage from Wednesday, so I'm not going to make my mind up on who's fault anything was...

    However...

    I think it's fair to say that there are likely to have been a fair number of thugs from across the UK in football tops, wearing blue, just to blend in. These people aren't Rangers supporters, they aren't even football supporters.

    It's also fair to say that Scotland and Glasgow in particular has a problem with drinking and violence.

    I wonder if the situation would be so different if it were a Manchester team came to Glasgow, and crowds gathered, hoping to watch the game on big screens, when it broke down. Do you think they'd all just say "jolly bad show!" and go find a nice cup of tea instead?

    The vast majority of the Rangers fans were peaceful. I think from what I've seen, some may have been provoked a bit by riot police. I don't know to what extent this is true though. Something that an inquiry may find out...


    Aside from the finger-pointing and denials in our press today, we also have the Evening Times leading with the story of how a Manchester policeman was "saved from the mob" by a Ranger fans.

    The Daily Record has this story, which you might also like to read.
    Let your mind go and your body will follow. – Steve Martin, LA Story

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    Re: Glasgow Rangers Fans in Manchester

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry Shnikov View Post
    You have a collective conscience? Wow.
    She is Borg. You will be assimilated.

    Quote Originally Posted by ducasi View Post
    I think it's fair to say that there are likely to have been a fair number of thugs from across the UK in football tops, wearing blue, just to blend in. These people aren't Rangers supporters, they aren't even football supporters.
    I'm not sure thats fair to say, sounds like a guess to me.

    It's also fair to say that Scotland and Glasgow in particular has a problem with drinking and violence.
    Can't argue with that one though.

    I wonder if the situation would be so different if it were a Manchester team came to Glasgow, and crowds gathered, hoping to watch the game on big screens, when it broke down. Do you think they'd all just say "jolly bad show!" and go find a nice cup of tea instead?
    Perhaps not, but its still unacceptable. And in the case of the tartan army travelling abroad there is never any problems - so why Rangers fans should be an exception I dont know.

    The vast majority of the Rangers fans were peaceful.
    Irrelevant. The vast majority of people in Europe in the early 40's were not Nazis

    I think from what I've seen, some may have been provoked a bit by riot police.
    Nonsense. And you say this after saying...

    I haven't seen so much of the reportage from Wednesday, so I'm not going to make my mind up on who's fault anything was...
    ...but are willing to suggest that the police "may have" provoked people. Bad form indeed.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Daily Ranger
    The Daily Record has this story, which you might also like to read.
    That article is full of excuses for the fans reaction - its nonsense.

    The ex-soldier mentioned at the beginning of the article is quoted as saying
    Quote Originally Posted by Rangers Fan
    ...the rumour doing the rounds is that they deliberately turned off the big screen, as they couldn't control the crowd.
    because hemming fans into an enclosed area and turning off the big screen would indeed make them much easier to control - yeah right. I also hear Paris Hilton was there with her Gers top on

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    Registered User John S's Avatar
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    Re: Glasgow Rangers Fans in Manchester

    The behaviour of SOME Rangers fans was disgraceful, and inexcusable. No way would I swallow any suggestion that the fans were infiltrated by thugs from outside, pretending to be Glasgow neds.

    I am a season ticket holder at a Scottish football club (not Rangers or Celtic, aka "The Old Firm" for our English readers). I can assure readers that the football forums are full of threads about the behaviour in Manchester. I do hope most people will agree that there are lots of thoroughly decent people that support all clubs, and some of them are actually moderately articulate (sorry FH ). Unfortunately there are also thoroughly reprehensible assheads that support all clubs, and anyone who attends football matches regularly knows that.

    The problem for the entire support is when the assheads become the story, that's what's happened here. There were clearly enough of them to cause chaos and to bring shame not only to Rangers, but to Scottish football in general, and beyond that to Scotland as a country.

    The Old Firm teams have traditionally had an added layer of religious bigotry and baggage from the 17th century, allied to a warped memory of Irish history. Although officially the clubs try to distance themselves from it, many of their supporters heven't yet joined the 21st century in that respect. (Hell's teeth, some of them haven't yet joined the human race!)

    It's worth saying that although I have no preference when it comes to the Old Firm (generally I want to see them both lose, unless they are "representing" Scotland) the trouble in Manchester was in stark contrast to the impeccable behaviour of the Celtic supporters in Seville in 2003, where no arrests were made on the day of the match and the fans received the Fifa Fair Play Award for their "exemplary, fair and cordial conduct".

    The Rangers support had their chance to shine this week and they blew it, their reputation is in tatters, and as Scots we all suffer by association. What will be remembered in England will be the images of Scottish football supporters behaving like sub-humans, and it was inexcusable. If anything, it will have encouraged those English who want to see an independent Scotland, preferably with barbed wire at the border.

    What will be forgotten is the cack-handed way the authorities first tried to stop the ticketless hordes going to Manchester, then decided not to enforce the existing law against drinking alcohol in a public place, then provided inadequately-sized fanzones with a non-working screen, then sent in police with inadequate training in crowd control. There was no forward planning by the authorities for what was going to be a difficult match to police, basically because they probably never believed Rangers would get to the final.

    None of that excuses violence, but it is necessary to remember that the vast majority of those who went to Manchester were not involved in it. (And while some probably indulged in other socially-unacceptable behaviour, like litter, public urinating etc, again, the facilities provided again seem to have been totally inadequate.)

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    Re: Glasgow Rangers Fans in Manchester

    The best excuse I read today was in the Daily Record ( I like highbrow ) when someone concluded that the police lost control. Why does anyone need the police to control them? I can usually manage to avoid chucking bottles and other missiles at people when I've been drinking, without being surrounded by police.

    I can't understand why any excuse is acceptable. Why can't people just behave decently?

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    Re: Glasgow Rangers Fans in Manchester

    I was staying up near Manchester for work on Weds night, drove within a mile of the football grounds on my way to dancing at Stockport , but the roads seemed very quiet to and from the venue?

    I was suprised at the news the next day...perhaps I was concentrating on the dancing

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    Teacher Paul F's Avatar
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    Re: Glasgow Rangers Fans in Manchester

    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadful Scathe View Post
    Irrelevant. The vast majority of people in Europe in the early 40's were not Nazis
    Great post. It does get a little tiring hearing people say that it was just a 'minority'. As if it excuses hundreds of yobs from attacking police.

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    Registered User cat's Avatar
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    Re: Glasgow Rangers Fans in Manchester

    i realise that the violence was only form a minority of fans and yes, those types of people are in many clubs, but it makes me sad when i hear people the next day reflecting on scotland in general and that fans dont stop to think about how their actions affect others and the perception of their country.

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    Re: Glasgow Rangers Fans in Manchester

    Quote Originally Posted by Tiger Feet View Post
    The best excuse I read today was in the Daily Record ( I like highbrow ) when someone concluded that the police lost control. Why does anyone need the police to control them? I can usually manage to avoid chucking bottles and other missiles at people when I've been drinking, without being surrounded by police.
    Well said. I can usually restrain myself from running after the police and beating them up too

    I can't understand why any excuse is acceptable. Why can't people just behave decently?
    Indeed, the papers are full of various peoples excuses when there are no valid ones.

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    Senior Member thainmaggiet's Avatar
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    Re: Glasgow Rangers Fans in Manchester

    Can someone please explain why, when we, the scots support our national team we are the most good natured party animals and yet shame was brought to us all on wednesday by these mindless cretins?

    Also, why did 88,000 Celtic fans[who had been drinking for days] not riot in Seville when there team was beaten in the same cup-final? Instead they partied with the Porto fans after the final whistle, I know, because although not keen on football I was there.
    I also had friends and family in Manchester on wednesday night who are all devastated by the violence.
    Apologies on behalf of them to the people of Manchester.
    Last edited by thainmaggiet; 16th-May-2008 at 03:48 PM. Reason: spelling
    THE ABILITY TO QUOTE IS A SERVICEABLE SUBSTITUTE FOR WIT!

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    Re: Glasgow Rangers Fans in Manchester

    It bothers me that there are so many discussions about where the blame lies: with the police, with the fact that alcohol was sold etc etc. When did people stop having to take responsibility for their own behaviour (and this now happens a lot, in all areas of life)? Just because a pub is selling alcohol throughout the day does not mean I have to buy it and drink it.

    People need to take responsbility for themselves and their own lives and conduct, and stop making it acceptable for it always to be someone else's fault that something happens.

    Just my tuppenneth worth.

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    Re: Glasgow Rangers Fans in Manchester

    Quote Originally Posted by Nessiemonster View Post
    People need to take responsbility for themselves and their own lives and conduct, and stop making it acceptable for it always to be someone else's fault that something happens.
    Some members of a group behaved badly and other people want to make excuses on their behalf to lessen the guilt by association

    So there are 3 groups of people here:

    1. The drunken idiots
    2. The idiots making excuses for the drunken idiots
    3. Everyone else who is not trying to excuse the inexcusable behaviour of the drunken idiots



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    Senior Member rubyred's Avatar
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    Re: Glasgow Rangers Fans in Manchester

    Quote Originally Posted by Nessiemonster View Post
    It bothers me that there are so many discussions about where the blame lies: with the police, with the fact that alcohol was sold etc etc. When did people stop having to take responsibility for their own behaviour (and this now happens a lot, in all areas of life)? Just because a pub is selling alcohol throughout the day does not mean I have to buy it and drink it.

    People need to take responsbility for themselves and their own lives and conduct, and stop making it acceptable for it always to be someone else's fault that something happens.

    Just my tuppenneth worth.

    One of my friends told me that he was in Manchester that day and the atmosphere was superb, however he also said that he'd seen people carrying packs of beer around on their shoulders, you know the 24 can things. Alcohol, violence and lack of personal responsibilty seem to go hand in hand with football. Its almost like some kind of teritorial binding together, similar to that of a nationalistic outburst of emotion that spills over into warfare.

    I was around Manchester on Wednesday and advised by my son not to go into the city centre, so I remained on the outskirts enjoying a meal in a Nepalese restaurant in leafy West Didsbury, far more civilised.
    if you love the life you live then you'll get a lot more done

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