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Thread: Bouncy versus smooth - two styles or two dances?

  1. #21
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    Re: Bouncy versus smooth - two styles or two dances?

    Quote Originally Posted by Andy McGregor View Post
    ...Just so I can stay ahead, I now think there are 3 dances ...
    I think that there are as many dances as there are moments. Each partner, track and mood brings a new experience.

    I like MJ because it is an open door for those that just fancy a 'knees up'. It is also a path for those that discover the art in dance, but fundamentals starts with "fun". Many will find their path leads them beyond MJ, but they decorate the nights for the rest of us as they pass along it. For me the major achievement of MJ is bringing such a wide range of people into dance, and I hope it continues to do that.

  2. #22
    Lovely Moderator ducasi's Avatar
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    Re: Bouncy versus smooth - two styles or two dances?

    I think the defenders of the bounce here are actually defending something that is not being attacked.

    A bit of bounce from your legs, and through your body is fine, if that's what you and your partners like. (I personally think it can look a bit weird, like you have a limp.)

    What most people who are against the bounce are saying is that bouncing your arm and/or hand, without the rest of your body bouncing along with it is plain and simple bad technique.

    To get a good connection, you need some amount of frame through your arm and hand. Thus to bounce your arm and hand your body will need to bounce too.

    I'd still argue though that bouncing a hand, arm or whole body can reduce the efficiency of the lead, and result in a lesser dance for your partner.
    Let your mind go and your body will follow. – Steve Martin, LA Story

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    Re: Bouncy versus smooth - two styles or two dances?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheTramp View Post
    Nope. I dance them in a smooth, non-bouncy funky or latin, or whatever, style.
    Okay, I was just curious. I know it's not 'cool' to talk about having bounce in your dance (well, on this forum anyway), but as Ruby said, "A little bounce goes a long way". I can't imagine dancing the same smooth stuff to music that demands a little bounce. Boring!

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    Re: Bouncy versus smooth - two styles or two dances?

    I find that when the music changes the moves i do change....

    For latin - Much more hip action - No bounce - Many combs and walks
    For modern - All sorts, with a few speed changes on things like the pretzle.... No bounce
    Blues - Up close and personal - Few wiggles..... No bounce
    Swing - Charleston kicks is as bouncy as that gets and its the move that makes it bouncy, i don't choose to hop up and down....

    Some people enjoy a good bounce, i know someone who will bounce even to blues.... very uncomfortable when she has her knee between your legs..... Owch!

    I just prefer to be a smooth dancer and change speeds and moves rather than dancing more vertically than horizontally....

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    Re: Bouncy versus smooth - two styles or two dances?

    Quote Originally Posted by TA Guy View Post
    Okay, I was just curious. I know it's not 'cool' to talk about having bounce in your dance (well, on this forum anyway), but as Ruby said, "A little bounce goes a long way". I can't imagine dancing the same smooth stuff to music that demands a little bounce. Boring!
    Whatever! There's no music that ever demands me to be bouncy. It's just not going to happen.

    Quote Originally Posted by Danicus118 View Post
    I just prefer to be a smooth dancer and change speeds and moves rather than dancing more vertically than horizontally....
    What he said. There's plenty of things that you can change, without being bouncy. I'll do all of those instead. You do what you want

  6. #26
    Registered User Lynn's Avatar
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    Re: Bouncy versus smooth - two styles or two dances?

    Quote Originally Posted by ducasi View Post
    I think the defenders of the bounce here are actually defending something that is not being attacked.

    A bit of bounce from your legs, and through your body is fine, if that's what you and your partners like. (I personally think it can look a bit weird, like you have a limp.)

    What most people who are against the bounce are saying is that bouncing your arm and/or hand, without the rest of your body bouncing along with it is plain and simple bad technique.

    To get a good connection, you need some amount of frame through your arm and hand. Thus to bounce your arm and hand your body will need to bounce too.

    I'd still argue though that bouncing a hand, arm or whole body can reduce the efficiency of the lead, and result in a lesser dance for your partner.
    I'm not talking about the arm bounce - which I agree is just bad technique and usually a way of keeping time - and one that interferes with the lead. Often just as a habit learned as a beginner, either for timing or copying someone.

    When I think 'bouncy dancer' I think body bouncing - and if they are not arm bouncing along with it then they can dance bouncy and I can follow smoothly for most moves, dependng on the amount of frame in the move. But as they are leading, sometimes I have to sacrifice smooth in favour of connection.

    I do know at least one dancer who looks really energetic - seems to leap and run round all over the place, but has a smooth lead.
    Last edited by Lynn; 8th-May-2008 at 01:38 AM.

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    Re: Bouncy versus smooth - two styles or two dances?

    Quote Originally Posted by ducasi View Post
    I think the defenders of the bounce here are actually defending something that is not being attacked.

    .....................

    To get a good connection, you need some amount of frame through your arm and hand. Thus to bounce your arm and hand your body will need to bounce too.

    I'd still argue though that bouncing a hand, arm or whole body can reduce the efficiency of the lead, and result in a lesser dance for your partner.


    Quote Originally Posted by TheTramp View Post
    Whatever! There's no music that ever demands me to be bouncy. It's just not going to happen.

    .......... There's plenty of things that you can change, without being bouncy. I'll do all of those instead. You do what you want
    [/quote]


    I don't mind some 'body bounce' but find anyone moving my arms around during dancing gets in the way of leading, especially the more subtle of moves. Very difficult sometimes to change the direction of the bounce in time to encourage the partner's arm in the right motion so can frustrate even experienced leaders, heaven knows what it does to a new lead. Also, I'd have imagined that for the follows it makes it difficult for them to figure out what the lead is doing, but I'm a lousy follow so happy to take more informed advice. Like Lynn says I suspect that some of this might come from the need to keep time in the early days.

    At the risk of opening up another debate, a greater evil for me is excessive body rotation. Where I've been to venues that are predominantly 'bouncy' this has normally been accompanied by the follows twisting first one way then the other and you find yourself having to create moves depending on which of the follow's shoulders is facing you at the time. This seems to spring right from the count in as people twist on the 5,6,7,8 so undermining the frame from the start.

    As many of the previous posts have said there are plenty of way of getting expression and energy into the dance without various body parts moving around in what sometimes looks like random directions

  8. #28
    Basically lazy robd's Avatar
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    Re: Bouncy versus smooth - two styles or two dances?

    Quote Originally Posted by TA Guy View Post
    I think part of the problem in the use of the word bouncy. It's entered general use amongst a certain type of dancer to refer in a derogatory way to people who arn't smooth.
    But IMO that's not really correct.
    The opposite of smooth is not bounce, it's something like jerky.
    Quote Originally Posted by TA Guy View Post
    However, yes, there is still an underlying skill level that affects things like jerkiness.
    I agree that there's usually an implied superiority when people are described as bouncy dancers. I think it's more about control than about smooth/bouncy. When people are talked of as bouncy it's usually because they do not seem to be in control of their dancing, both their own movements and leading their partners.

    Quote Originally Posted by TA Guy View Post
    Likewise, if it's bouncy thump thump music most good dancers would add a little bounce to their dance.
    I see it all the time when Blues room dancers grace us with their presence in the main room at weekenders The good ones dance bouncier to the bouncier music, albeit not by much sometimes.
    What you hear as bouncy music may be interpreted differently by other people. But, yes, grinding away to Candyman or Pump It probably isn't the most appropriate....

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    Re: Bouncy versus smooth - two styles or two dances?

    Quote Originally Posted by robd View Post
    I agree that there's usually an implied superiority when people are described as bouncy dancers. I think it's more about control than about smooth/bouncy. When people are talked of as bouncy it's usually because they do not seem to be in control of their dancing, both their own movements and leading their partners.
    Yup. That's a better description.

    It's a shame.
    Like 'rotation', 'bounce' is one of those things that can be the result of skilful dancing, or also the result of errors in the dance. Which confuses discussion.
    And both 'bounce' and 'rotation' have got lumped with the 'uncool' tag which has made discussion of both a bit tricky as some discussions get a tad defensive because of that 'uncool' tag, which leads to even more confusion.

    All dancers bounce, even Trampy!!! I bounce!!! It's necessary to dance at all. There is no harm and nothing uncool whatsoever about exaggerating this absolutely necessary bounce a little to reflect something similar in the music. It's got nothing in common with a bounce due to lack of control. The opposite in fact. I would call it 'simply feeling the music' and something good dancers do, not bad ones.

    Obviously it does all come down to personal taste tho.... so...

    Quote Originally Posted by TheTramp View Post
    Whatever! There's no music that ever demands me to be bouncy. It's just not going to happen.

    What he said. There's plenty of things that you can change, without being bouncy. I'll do all of those instead. You do what you want
    No worries, each to their own
    Last edited by TA Guy; 8th-May-2008 at 10:13 AM.

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    Re: Bouncy versus smooth - two styles or two dances?

    Quote Originally Posted by TA Guy View Post
    I disagree with your disagreement


    I think part of the problem in the use of the word bouncy. It's entered general use amongst a certain type of dancer to refer in a derogatory way to people who arn't smooth.
    But IMO that's not really correct.
    The opposite of smooth is not bounce, it's something like jerky.
    Smooth and bouncy are far from mutually exclusive. There are styles of Lindy Hop where extremely bouncy excellent dancers are extremely smooth. The same with Ballroom Jive.

    In the context of this discussion and talking simplistically to make the point, I think if it's latin music, most good dancers would add something to the hip wriggle. If it's true swing music, then most good dancers would add a swung eighth. Likewise, if it's bouncy thump thump music most good dancers would add a little bounce to their dance.
    I see it all the time when Blues room dancers grace us with their presence in the main room at weekenders The good ones dance bouncier to the bouncier music, albeit not by much sometimes.

    I guess you can sum it up as 'feeling the music'.

    However, yes, there is still an underlying skill level that affects things like jerkiness.
    I personally prefer a smooth style, but i agree that some styles haave a natural bounce. Some people however are more jerky than bouncy, making it very hard to lead and very tiring.

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