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Thread: Time to Quit ?

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    Senior Member Minnie M's Avatar
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    Time to Quit ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chef
    I have spent two years, a lot of miles and money trying to get to grips with this dance and it just isn't fun for me yet. Every time I meet a new set of teachers there is a new way of dancing the basics. I try to learn what one set of teachers tell me and get it into my bones and then a new set of pros come over from america and I am supposed to unlearn everything and learn it over again in the new way. Having to learn and unlearn stuff 9 times over is getting me fed up. I really think it is time for me to accept defeat
    This really saddens me However it is not the first time I have heard it - and this is possibly why WCS didn't make it the first time round when I first learnt. Is it because newbie Westies are often saturated by 'patterns' and syncopations which you have to learn thoroughly and unfortunately they often don't come easy.

    A couple of weeks ago in Brighton I had a really really fab dance with Chef. He is an excellant MJ dancer, lots of interesting well executed moves and lots of musicality. It must be sooooo frustrating for him not to feel the same confidence with WCS - maybe it is not the dance for him, or is it because of bad 'teaching' or the combination of different WCS styles??


    --ooOoo--
    Age is a question of mind over matter, if you don't mind, it doesn't matter
    Leroy (Satchel) Paige (1906-1982)

    Mickey Mouse's girlfriend, Minnie, made her film debut, along with Mickey, in "Steamboat Willie" on November 18, 1928.
    That date is recognized as her official birthday.

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    Registered User Lynn's Avatar
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    Re: Time to Quit ?

    I think its because there seems to be an expectation in WCS to 'get it right' that I haven't come across in MJ or even AT.

    I've found it very tough trying to learn WCS from the occasional weekender and in the end I decided that I will just muddle along and learn it as best I can at my own pace. OK - the good dancers prob won't want to dance with me as I'm not worrying too much about getting all the technical stuff correct, I'm just getting up and giving it a go.

    It means my WCS isn't as good as it could be. But it also means I enjoy the little that I do and I'm having fun. I think if I hadn't taken that approach I would have given up by now.

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    Senior Member Minnie M's Avatar
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    Re: Time to Quit ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lynn View Post
    I think its because there seems to be an expectation in WCS to 'get it right' that I haven't come across in MJ or even AT...
    ahhhhhhhhh........ I think you could be right there


    Quote Originally Posted by Lynn View Post
    ...........my WCS isn't as good as it could be. But it also means I enjoy the little that I do and I'm having fun. I think if I hadn't taken that approach I would have given up by now.
    different reasons, but have decided to take that approach too


    Thanks Lynn


    --ooOoo--
    Age is a question of mind over matter, if you don't mind, it doesn't matter
    Leroy (Satchel) Paige (1906-1982)

    Mickey Mouse's girlfriend, Minnie, made her film debut, along with Mickey, in "Steamboat Willie" on November 18, 1928.
    That date is recognized as her official birthday.

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    Re: Time to Quit ?

    I only started WCS this weekend but had a right laugh dancing it during the freestyles. I know my technique was nowhere near what it should be, that my footwork was all over the place and my timing was off but it was still fun.

    Why would anyone want to learn a dance if they do not enjoy it? Do you only start enjoying WCS when you get to a pro level? I am sure even the pros are still learning. Infact that is something J&T said this weekend, that they are learning all the time.

    I did dance with one or two follows that showed on their faces that they were not happy with my technique but if their heads are so far up their backsides that they dont want to dance with beginners, then they deserve to have no fun in the dance at all.


    Personally with any hobby or learning a new skill, I think it should be fun first and learning second.

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    Senior Member Minnie M's Avatar
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    Re: Time to Quit ?

    Hmmmmmmmmm........

    The trouble with WCS is that it IS difficult to learn, particarly for the leads. It is such a lovely dance we all get very excited when first learning.

    It is a shame there are not more experienced followers that can help the newbie leads. I know that the likes of Lory and a few others help new dancers, I have seen her helping just wish there were a few more.


    --ooOoo--
    Age is a question of mind over matter, if you don't mind, it doesn't matter
    Leroy (Satchel) Paige (1906-1982)

    Mickey Mouse's girlfriend, Minnie, made her film debut, along with Mickey, in "Steamboat Willie" on November 18, 1928.
    That date is recognized as her official birthday.

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    Re: Time to Quit ?

    The key thing is to be patient. It is not dissimilar to learning something like Tango or Foxtrot, where there is a specific frame and footwork and unlike MJ, it does require closer attention and effort.

    Just to say also that to help my own cause, I have written a lot of notes over the last three years I have been taking classes and I hope that I will be able to share some of my knowledge with followers at Southport and beyond.

    best
    johnnyman

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    Senior Member Minnie M's Avatar
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    Re: Time to Quit ?

    Quote Originally Posted by johnnyman View Post
    ..........Just to say also that to help my own cause, I have written a lot of notes over the last three years I have been taking classes and I hope that I will be able to share some of my knowledge with followers at Southport and beyond.

    best
    johnnyman
    That's fantastic, could you save me a dance please


    --ooOoo--
    Age is a question of mind over matter, if you don't mind, it doesn't matter
    Leroy (Satchel) Paige (1906-1982)

    Mickey Mouse's girlfriend, Minnie, made her film debut, along with Mickey, in "Steamboat Willie" on November 18, 1928.
    That date is recognized as her official birthday.

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    Re: Time to Quit ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lee Bartholomew View Post
    I only started WCS this weekend but had a right laugh dancing it during the freestyles. I know my technique was nowhere near what it should be, that my footwork was all over the place and my timing was off but it was still fun.

    Why would anyone want to learn a dance if they do not enjoy it? Do you only start enjoying WCS when you get to a pro level? I am sure even the pros are still learning. Infact that is something J&T said this weekend, that they are learning all the time.

    I did dance with one or two follows that showed on their faces that they were not happy with my technique but if their heads are so far up their backsides that they dont want to dance with beginners, then they deserve to have no fun in the dance at all.

    Personally with any hobby or learning a new skill, I think it should be fun first and learning second.
    Great attitude Lee. May you thrive on the circuit soon. Your response is the correct one and let's hope that you show those same individuals a thing or two by winning a Jack and Jill @ Weston. Privates where possible are also good if you can get to one.

    Best
    johnnyman

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    Re: Time to Quit ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Minnie M View Post
    That's fantastic, could you save me a dance please
    Indeed. Any time

    best
    johnnyman

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    Basically lazy robd's Avatar
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    Re: Time to Quit ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lee Bartholomew View Post
    I did dance with one or two follows that showed on their faces that they were not happy with my technique but if their heads are so far up their backsides that they dont want to dance with beginners, then they deserve to have no fun in the dance at all.
    That's not a WCS specific attitude though is it? I am sure it happens just as much in MJ.

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    Lovely Moderator ducasi's Avatar
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    Re: Time to Quit ?

    I've quit WCS at least twice. Went back to try to figure out what I'm missing. Still don't see it.

    Going to see what I can learn at Blaze & Southport, but I don't expect to be going back to regular classes soon – even though they're now 5-10 minutes' walk from my flat.
    Let your mind go and your body will follow. – Steve Martin, LA Story

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    Re: Time to Quit ?

    Quote Originally Posted by johnnyman View Post
    The key thing is to be patient. It is not dissimilar to learning something like Tango or Foxtrot, where there is a specific frame and footwork and unlike MJ, it does require closer attention and effort.

    I totally agree with this, I find learning WCS much more like learning ballroom dancing than MJ. You can't go into WCS seriously and not expect to be taught technique, timing, frame and so on. That doesn't mean that it isn't fun to learn, but it is quite demanding and isn't something one can expect to be instantly good at.


    I think the one thing you have to keep in mind when you start learning any new skill or take up any new hobby is "where am I going with this...?". If you want to be winning competitions at a national or international level then it will take a lot of hard work and dedication - those champions didn't get there overnight! If you want to just have a bit of fun and not put in too much effort, then you will have to accept the fact that you probably won't become the world's greatest...

    I fall in and out of love with WCS quite reguarly, we have a bit of a love-hate relationship! I know I make loads of mistakes and mess things up, even though I try really hard. It's depressing and it makes me want to quit. But then I remind myself why I do it - because dancing is fun and enjoyable and because I want to be a good social dancer and spend time with my friends doing something that makes me happy. Maybe when things are a bit less hectic for me I'll be able to concentrate more on it, and maybe then my mistakes will lessen, but until then I will have to accept that I'm a human being and that I can't do everything at once.

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    Re: Time to Quit ?

    Quote Originally Posted by robd View Post
    That's not a WCS specific attitude though is it? I am sure it happens just as much in MJ.
    Oh no, that was not the point I was making. It happens in MJ and im sure many other dances too.

    Was making the point that if people dont want to dance with beginners etc then they deserve to have a miserable time dancing. Some of the best dances I have had are with beginners and even non-dancers.

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    Re: Time to Quit ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sparkles View Post
    I totally agree with this, I find learning WCS much more like learning ballroom dancing than MJ. You can't go into WCS seriously and not expect to be taught technique, timing, frame and so on. That doesn't mean that it isn't fun to learn, but it is quite demanding and isn't something one can expect to be instantly good at.
    One of the reasons I enjoy WCS is because of the technicality (I'm a weirdo I know). Coming from a ballroom background it gives me the "stuff" that MJ doesn't.

    And as much as I'd like to be fantastic (and yesterday while we're at it ) I know that's just not going to happen straightaway. I just hope I can get reasonably good in the not too distant future.

    I think the problem lies in the ethos that people are expected to be amazing sooner rather than later in general with dance. Almost a "well you've been to x number of lessons therefore you must know how to do it". WCS has SO many layers and whilst honing one technique, something else will slip. No matter how many basic lessons you go to there's always something new. Something to add not necessarily to change.

    It's the journey not the destination that's fun.

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    Re: Time to Quit ?

    Helen!!

    It would be a great pity for any dance form to lose Chef: he is one of the leads in MJ I admire most (and whilst we're gushing, not just for his dance style: musical, fun, inventive~ but the respectful way he carries and handles himself...). And if HE's struggling at WCS, I know I sure as hell am gonna think long and hard before I take it up!!

    But as Minnie said, maybe it just isn't his dance...

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    Re: Time to Quit ?

    Quote Originally Posted by HelenB View Post
    I think the problem lies in the ethos that people are expected to be amazing sooner rather than later in general with dance. Almost a "well you've been to x number of lessons therefore you must know how to do it". WCS has SO many layers and whilst honing one technique, something else will slip. No matter how many basic lessons you go to there's always something new. Something to add not necessarily to change.

    It's the journey not the destination that's fun.
    See, this is why I love MJ:

    has SO many layers and whilst honing one technique, something else will slip. No matter how many basic lessons you go to there's always something new. Something to add not necessarily to change.

    And the expectation is not to be amazing. It's not even to be any good: it's to have fun and enjoy the dance. And that is an expectation I can (& want to) live up to .

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    Registered User Feelingpink's Avatar
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    Re: Time to Quit ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Minnie M View Post
    This really saddens me However it is not the first time I have heard it - and this is possibly why WCS didn't make it the first time round when I first learnt. Is it because newbie Westies are often saturated by 'patterns' and syncopations which you have to learn thoroughly and unfortunately they often don't come easy. ... maybe it is not the dance for him, or is it because of bad 'teaching' or the combination of different WCS styles??
    I really feel for Chef's position at the moment. I don't think it's because of needing to be patient, practising, hard work nor bad teaching ... but exactly as he says - different teachings. It's a similar struggle in tango if you switch between teachers - something one teacher says is seemingly made less important or sniffed at by another. I can be patronisingly glared at by partners saying I'm not following their chest (& their lead), but have no problem whatsoever following my male teacher with eyes closed (& therefore not looking anywhere at all).

    It's why I've ended up going to one class regularly where I love the philosophy of both teachers. Perhaps the trick with WCS (in the UK at the moment) is to decide which teachers to follow and which you have to put aside, at least for now - and that might be limited to those regularly available.

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    Re: Time to Quit ?

    Quote Originally Posted by HelenB View Post
    One of the reasons I enjoy WCS is because of the technicality (I'm a weirdo I know). Coming from a ballroom background it gives me the "stuff" that MJ doesn't
    (Sigh) Look, I know we haven't danced for absolutely ages Helen but fear not, I have plenty of MJ "stuff" to excite you with when we do finally end up at the same venue - but it aint exactly technical

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    Re: Time to Quit ?

    I had a big crisis of confidence with my WCS this year, I was struggling to combine doing classes with staying awake at work, & felt that the lack of practice meant my WCS would be really rusty. I also thought that there was no point in dabbling - if I couldn't invest all the time & effort I'd never do it well enough for people to want to WCS with me...

    But thanks to Randall's patience at decaDance last month , & some great dances & a lot of fun (once I'd got into it) at Weston my enthusiasm has returned.

    I actually found the break seems to have helped, after the first few recent dances I seem to have relaxed into a style - it may not be perfect but I've found that without all the classes I can just do the basics in my own way without trying to remember all the detail I've been told. I'll never be classed as good but I'm a lot happier & can just enjoy myself! OK, it's easier for followers - if I relax a good lead can lead me into more, but if a lead relaxes it won't teach him more moves! But it may mean he can remember more?

    Think all that waffle means that once you have the basics, if you're struggling, relax!

    Chef, we had a lovely dance at Weston, hope it's not our last WCS ?

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    Re: Time to Quit ?

    I'm hardly the best dancer on the planet, as those who know me will attest to. I've given up on Ceroc/Leroc classes because I found them to be boring, just the same ol' same ol' moves to the same ol' same ol' music with the same ol' same ol' people (many of those people I love to bits, by the way) so I took up WCS.

    Maybe it's because I did line dance for 5 or so years before I took up Ceroc and have been doing Ceroc/Leroc for about 6 years that I find WCS to be relatively simple. The arm moves in WCS are identical in many ways to Ceroc/Leroc, just timed differently and the footwork/timing/syncopations are nothing like as complicated as in line dance, (you should try doing apple-jacks).

    WCS isn't all 1-2, triple step, triple step and after a while you stop doing the triple steps and simply keep the timing in your head, you'll replace the triple steps with variations,syncopations and holds. Honestly it isn't all that difficult and I'd say to all those who are experiencing initial problems with WCS to stick with it 'cause it ain't going to go away, treat it as a fun pastime, enjoy it and don't take it too seriously. It's only a dance.

    Quote Originally Posted by ducasi View Post
    I've quit WCS at least twice. Went back to try to figure out what I'm missing. Still don't see it.
    Duncan, you're a very competent dancer and as far as WCS is concerned you don't appear to be missing anything, you're doing it fine as far as I saw when you tried it out at Graham's but what you did do was the very common thing of bringing your Ceroc into the WCS class with you. The flamboyancy of Ceroc doesn't auger well with WCS in the initial stages of the learning curve and so, I would say to any Cerocer (back-end wiggling) and especially Lerocer (arm bouncing and shoulder rocking) to leave your Ceroc/Leroc at the door when you go into a WCS class. Once you've mastered the basic techniques then you're free to put in as much of your own styling as you like, unless, of course, you're competing, I believe the judging is very strict in that you must adhere to the WCS concept.

    I sincerely hope I haven't upset too many people with this post, I'm enjoying my WCS and would wish to see many more of my fellow MJrs at WCS classes and workshops and not to have them put off by negativity and a few uppity WCSwingers.
    Last edited by Brian Doolan; 28th-April-2008 at 09:31 PM. Reason: Stupid spelling mistake that FireFox didn't pick up on (AmericaniZation)

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