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Thread: A Dancer Assessment Matrix

  1. #21
    Lovely Moderator ducasi's Avatar
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    Re: A Dancer Assessment Matrix

    Quote Originally Posted by Gus View Post
    I WASN'T having a go at Ducasi ... I appreciate his feedback ... I was commenting on the 'its' v it's debate .... as usual. Wasn't absolutely clear that this was furthering the debate.
    Sorry Gus, I had misunderstood your post as Tessalicious had done.

    BTW, it's "pedantry".
    Let your mind go and your body will follow. – Steve Martin, LA Story

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    Re: A Dancer Assessment Matrix

    Quote Originally Posted by CheesyRobMan View Post
    What is T&C?

    I have been Dancing for 15 Years and never heard the term

    T&C Post-Overhaul Test & Certification
    T&C Telemetry and Command
    T&C Terms & Conditions
    T&C Testing and Certification
    T&C Thoracic and Cervical
    T&C Threaded & Coupled
    T&C Time and Cost
    T&C Town and Country Smurf Designs
    T&C Track Correlation
    T&C Training and Certification
    T&C Training and Competence
    T&C transfer and convertibility (risk/insurance)
    T&C Transition and Cutover

  3. #23
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    Re: A Dancer Assessment Matrix

    Quote Originally Posted by ducasi View Post
    BTW, it's "pedantry".

  4. #24
    Commercial Operator Gus's Avatar
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    Re: A Dancer Assessment Matrix

    Quote Originally Posted by CheesyRobMan View Post
    What is T&C?
    Tension and Compression

  5. #25
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    Re: A Dancer Assessment Matrix

    Quote Originally Posted by Gus View Post
    Tension and Compression

    Maybe "Tender and Caring"

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    Re: A Dancer Assessment Matrix

    Quote Originally Posted by Gus View Post
    I WASN'T having a go at Ducasi ... I appreciate his feedback ... I was commenting on the 'its' v it's debate .... as usual. Wasn't absolutely clear that this was furthering the debate.
    Sorry for going off track Gus, I was just having a go at the smurf.

  7. #27
    Papa Smurf
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    Re: A Dancer Assessment Matrix

    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Doolan View Post
    Sorry for going off track Gus, I was just having a go at the smurf.
    Yes, clearly. Is there a scoreboard? are you winning ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Doolan View Post
    Is it poor eyesight? a mental inability to process the written word? or simply the result of gazing through the window when you should have been listening to your English teacher when you were in school?

    I neither wrote nor implied that I thought it was "sitting in Judgement", simply some people (not I) will be offended by an organiser's percieved "mis-judgement" of them.
    Completely different from what you percieved my intent to be.
    [/B][/I]
    It was Agente who used "sitting in judgment", you simply had a negative opinion of Gus's idea along the same lines i.e. "How many people do you think will be happy at being judged they're not good enough " - which implies that those "sitting in judgment" are not appreciated by these people.* Which, frankly, is tough; being nice and pussyfooting around people who are spoiling a workshop for others should not be the highest thing on a teachers agenda.


    As for "it's" - yes, I know. I'm lazy with punctuation; but I'm crying at the hurt it must cause you. Sob. Look, real tear's.


    * I mean wow - how COULD i have jumped to such a preposterous conclusion.

  8. #28
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    Re: A Dancer Assessment Matrix

    I am put off some of the workshops on offer because I don’t want to be out of my depth, but I do want to progress. I don’t expect the teacher at my large venue to have any idea what stage I’m at, because I’ve never danced with her, and I don’t dance that often with the taxis either (just probably feels like it to them, ha ha!) so how am I supposed to know what workshops would be appropriate for me?

    I think a basic progression list would be really helpful, because you could get a rough idea of where you are trying to go, and you could take the list to your teacher and ask their opinion. When you start MJ as a beginner you go off to rock bottom beginner class while the inter class is on, but when you get kicked out of that you jump right into the big sea with no guidance, no taxis, and no feedback unless you target someone you hope is an appropriate person to ask. I’m still a beginner whether I’m doing the inter class or not, and sometimes I feel a bit lost amongst the sharks and need someone to show me the way!

    When I look at the good follows, I have no real idea of how they got to be that good. Presumably they didn’t get that way overnight, so I’d love to be able to look at a chart and see the stages – it would make the whole thing less daunting to see the steps involved. I know I could rough one out for linedancing because I know the scene, but from where I’m standing in the MJ scene, progression is a complete mystery to me.

    Self assessment doesn’t work for people who big themselves up, and personal invitations are great but not applicable to every situation. My venue announced a workshop recently and said that anyone who wanted to do it should talk to the teacher first, which seemed very sensible. I think Gus is right - it would make it easier to give a chart level as a rough guide for appropriateness of a workshop, and encourage people to get a teacher opinion on their personal level. I don’t think that’s belittling in any way, it seems quite practical to me. If people have a problem accepting that they aren’t as good as they think they are, then they probably have other problems to bring into the workshop with them as well!

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    Re: A Dancer Assessment Matrix

    Gus,

    I really like the concept, however I think your measurements are a bit off.

    Personally I would focus more on the elements of technique that are measurable and definable.

    I would scrap all of the talk about moves, I personally don't know all of the beginners syllabus for Ceroc or any other MJ company, would I fail to rank as an improver?

    I would change your assessments to things like:

    Followers
    • Can execute a single assisted and free spin maintaining balance and without moving.
    • Builds a connection with their body not their arm.
    • Can maintain a connection in place and wait to be lead.
    • Once lead will maintain momentum until lead to change it.
    etc...

    Leaders
    • Can lead a single assisted and free spin without taking the follower off balance or moving them.
    • Uses their body to create a platform for the follower to connect to.
    • Leads the follower clearly in the direction they would like them to move.
    etc...


    The Ceroc & Modern Jive dance company in Aus use a similar system to govern their card system.

    Peter

  10. #30
    Ceroc Teacher Little Em's Avatar
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    Re: A Dancer Assessment Matrix

    [QUOTE=Jive Brummie;467951]I quite like the idea...in fact I like it a lot.

    At the end of the day, MJ dancing is an optional thing...you don't have to do it, but if you want to and you have the ability, you can do it to a high level.

    Knowing your ability is never a bad thing. Blindly going into something and thinking that you are great is not good and to that end if your ability (or lack of) inhibits those more capable of progress...then is that really a good thing? I'm not convinced. I'm definately up for being positive and promoting an individuals unique abilities, but not the mutual back slapping that is so prevalent within the world of MJ.

    I work as a Personal Trainer and within the boundaries of my job, I have to tell people if they are doing things right or wrong...they still chose to come to me for help, knowledge and assistance within their training, but the point is, they don't have to. If they didn't want to benefit from my ability within the world of fitness training and nutritional advice then they wouldn't come along. A lot of the time the advice is there to prevent possible injury...how is modern jive any different?

    You wouldn't want a complete beginner who's never dipped or dropped before, doing an advanced dips and drops routine would you? But how do they know if nobody tells them. One of the many things that used to wind me up about the MJ scene was.."well....it's looking good so far but some of you might want to try it this way" (says the teacher in expectant yes they are listening to me mode). Be specific...tell the person. If a class knows that you will tell any of them if they do things right or wrong, then hopefully nobody should feel awkward about it.

    No more bull$hit in MJ![/QUO



    . what he said.

  11. #31
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    Re: A Dancer Assessment Matrix

    Quote Originally Posted by pjfrad View Post
    ...Personally I would focus more on the elements of technique that are measurable and definable.

    I would scrap all of the talk about moves, ...
    e.g. in"Advanced" & "Freestyle" Gus has
    More 'movement' than moves. Improvises
    Which is exactly what drunken muggle dancers do when they are forced onto the floor at a party.

    Another concern I have is that once an organiser has rated a dancer as suitable for a workshop then the organiser could be held liable should that person prove to be not suitable.

  12. #32
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    Re: A Dancer Assessment Matrix

    Just gone through the self assessment spreadsheet, to discover it's taken me over three years to get to improver level (assumed 6months experience).

  13. #33
    Commercial Operator Gus's Avatar
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    Re: A Dancer Assessment Matrix

    Quote Originally Posted by pjfrad View Post
    I really like the concept, however I think your measurements are a bit off.
    Wouldn't be surprised. Need as much input as possible to calibrate them.

    Quote Originally Posted by pjfrad View Post
    I would scrap all of the talk about moves, I personally don't know all of the beginners syllabus for Ceroc or any other MJ company, would I fail to rank as an improver?
    Not quite so sure about that. The categorisation isn't a "must of achieved ALL of the following". Each area is an indication ... and like most rating systems, the pure stats can lie


    Quote Originally Posted by pjfrad View Post
    Leaders
    • Can lead a single assisted and free spin without taking the follower off balance or moving them.
    • Uses their body to create a platform for the follower to connect to.
    • Leads the follower clearly in the direction they would like them to move.
    etc...
    Excellent ... but I'm also very aware of the difficulties in defining the above ... e.g. "what does a platform look/feel like...

    Having said that, many thanks for a great contribution.


    Quote Originally Posted by pjfrad View Post
    The Ceroc & Modern Jive dance company in Aus use a similar system to govern their card system.
    Is that Nicky's/Gunn's outfit? Would be good to see their system. Hoping to catch up with Messr Harding when I'm out there so would be good to see the differences/similarities

  14. #34
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    Re: A Dancer Assessment Matrix

    Is it biased towards the lead, or does it apply to lead and follow equally.

  15. #35
    Commercial Operator Gus's Avatar
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    Re: A Dancer Assessment Matrix

    Quote Originally Posted by Astro View Post
    Is it biased towards the lead, or does it apply to lead and follow equally.
    Without going into huge amounts of detail I was trying to cover both. One of the problems is that following is very much dependant on the lead when it comes to moves. If you have suggestion as to how better take account of followers, please fire away.

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    Re: A Dancer Assessment Matrix

    Quote Originally Posted by Gus View Post
    Without going into huge amounts of detail I was trying to cover both. One of the problems is that following is very much dependant on the lead when it comes to moves. If you have suggestion as to how better take account of followers, please fire away.
    Not really when you've got a predictor. Followers should be as equally assessed as leads IMHO.

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