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Thread: Who can give advice in the dance scene?

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    Who can give advice in the dance scene?

    Now Trouble and I are taxi dancers at Stevenage and a couple of interesting things have happened lately.
    1... An older lady comes to Stevenage does the begginers lesson then sits down and does the refresher and then goes home, without actually doing any dancing.
    So last week I stopped her on the way out and made her dance 4 dances on the trot with me, I then sat down with her and had a good chat about dancing. Now last night she did the intermediate lesson, which she coped well with, and stayed until the end and danced all night really enjoying herself.

    Now this is what taxi dancing is all about IMHO, watching her change from a shy and retiring wall flower into a confident and happy dancer really warmed my heart and brought a tear to my eye.

    2 A lady asked me for a dance and was a bouncer, so halfway through the dance I brought her in close and said to her, so only me and her could hear the conversation, you are concentrating so much on bouncing to the beat that you are wearing yourself out and missing half of my signals, let the lead worry about the beat and let the lead dictate the speed of the dance, try to flow into the moves and see how we get on.
    She took this on board and we had a fantastic couple of dances after that.

    Now I thought long and hard about what I was going to say to this lady as I wanted to eliminate any bad habits before they become ingrained in her dancing.

    Now my point is who is qualified to give advice on the dance scene, teachers? Of course. Taxu dancers? I think so.

    Your views and comments would be appreciated, good or bad.

    DTS Dave XXX XXX

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    Re: Who can give advice in the dance scene?

    Quote Originally Posted by dave the scaffolder View Post
    Now my point is who is qualified to give advice on the dance scene, teachers? Of course. Taxu dancers? I think so.
    Qualified is an odd word to use here. Most taxis I have come across are fairly inexperienced, although I know there are several locally who have been dancing for many years. Some taxis are competition standard, as are some teachers - that doesn't necessarily qualify them to give advice.

    I've not danced with many of the teachers around here, but they look pretty bouncy themselves (which is why I make no special effort to dance with them).

    I do notice that there are very few places where bad habits have been consistently corrected across the majority of dancers (such as the grip of death from the ladies - Ceroc training seems to only mention the men doing this).

    Sean

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    Re: Who can give advice in the dance scene?

    Your doing the right thing Dave stick with your thoughtfull consideration regards new dancers. I think that on occasions it is more important that a taxi dancer has those qualities above dance experience and when they have both, like yourself, its an added bonus.

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    Re: Who can give advice in the dance scene?

    IMO if you know what MJ is and what is needed to Dance it then you can give a certain amout of advice.
    I no longer dance and have no desire to start again but i think i am still in a position to give advice if needed.
    The way you gave advice seems to be bang on and seemed to help the lady, well done.

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    Re: Who can give advice in the dance scene?

    Quote Originally Posted by dave the scaffolder View Post
    Now my point is who is qualified to give advice on the dance scene, teachers? Of course. Taxi dancers? I think so.
    "qualified" - anyone and everyone.
    It's not a matter of who is qualified, but what advice is given and what advice is taken (Which could be two vastly differing things for the same piece of advice.)

    If a beginner advises me, I take it on-board: They have not been bias with any preconceptions of what "should" or "shouldn't" be. They can only be commenting on what they think and what works/doesn't work for them.

    If a fresh intermediate advises me, I smile an nod: I try to understand what it is they are trying to resolve and work out the solution my self.

    If a long term intermediate advises me, then I change for them or mould my dancing more to match their advice while dancing with them: it's doubtful they will change, so I have to adapt.

    If someone I respect and/or think is a good dancer advises me, then I try an apply the advice, but will only adopt it if I can get it to work.


    If anyone has plucked up the courage to be confrontational enough to advise, then their advice is worth listening to. It's a partner dance and if the advice given makes it easier for my partner to dance with me, then it's good advice. I don't really mind where it comes from - if it helps me improve, dance better with my partners, look better on the dance floor, raises my dancing by any amount,... then I am grateful for it.
    Different in a class situation - advice should generally be coming from the stage unless requested. Only time I would break this silence is if someone was breaking rule No1: causing pain. Then it's up to everyone to advise, not just the teacher/taxi.

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    Re: Who can give advice in the dance scene?

    Quote Originally Posted by Achaeco View Post
    IMO if you know what MJ is and what is needed to Dance it then you can give a certain amout of advice.
    I no longer dance and have no desire to start again but i think i am still in a position to give advice if needed.
    The way you gave advice seems to be bang on and seemed to help the lady, well done.

    I don't know why our dances were fab, I dance with all sorts of men some think there just the bis, and they might be, but not for me, others say 'i'm just a begginer, and are open fun and let me have a play

    Achaeco I will allways ask you

    and I agree, DTS your advice was spot on.

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    Re: Who can give advice in the dance scene?

    The only person 'qualified' is the teacher. Anyone else that is asked for advice is entitled to give it though. Because the person asking must respect the person they have asked or they wouldn't have bothered. I've asked DavidB, Will and a few others for feedback when we've danced as I see them as experienced and great dancers. But equally I have asked others that have been dancing less time than myself, as I enjoy dancing with them and would like to know what would make my dancing better for them.
    As a taxi dancer, I think you are there to encourage the newbies and make them feel less conscious and make the evening more enjoyable for them. By getting lady No1 to stay longer, you served this purpose, so well done DTS. As for lady No2, did she say she enjoyed the dances more too? If so then again you did the right thing. If however you never see her again at the venue you might presume she took offence.
    Last edited by Cruella; 17th-April-2008 at 02:41 PM.

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    Re: Who can give advice in the dance scene?

    Good point Cruella Lady no2 took the advice on board and she enjoyed the dances more from that point on and her dancing was a lot smoother and flowed for the rest of the night. These 2 examples worked on the night and both dancers have improved their dancing, and their enjoyment of dancing with it.

    My point really is who should give advice to other dancers.

    Stevenage is the 1st venue I ever danced at and it has a special place in my heart, I know 98% of the people there and many of them are far better dancers than me and will often come over to me and say, Dave you can improve this or that, and I respect them for their honesty and guidance.

    There are ladies and men who I go to and ask advice and receive honest feedback on my dancing from this venue.

    This is my comfortable home venue which I adore, I feel at home in Stevenage.

    Just who can we accept advice off is the basis of this thread, and who can be giving good and honest advice.

    I have lots of other people who are honest with me, CJ tells me how it is and does not bullsh1t me at all, and I love him for it same for Onkar.

    DTS Dave XXX XXX

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    Re: Who can give advice in the dance scene?

    Quote Originally Posted by dave the scaffolder View Post
    I know 98% of the people there and many of them are far better dancers than me

    I have lots of other people who are honest with me, CJ tells me how it is and does not bullsh1t me at all, and I love him for it same for Onkar.

    DTS Dave XXX XXX
    LOL - are ya kidding me. 98% of the dancers at Stevenage are beginners. Regulars are no longer attending like they used too lately and TBH you are one of the best dancers there and thats only because of how long you have danced for and i have smoothed you out.

    The only people that can direct and give instruction should be the teachers, all we are there for is encouragement and maybe some small tips. We are also there to try and get people back week in week out by smiling sweetly and dancing with them till 10.00 at night.

    Taxi dancers are just dancers at the end of the day with a personality.

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    Re: Who can give advice in the dance scene?

    Quote Originally Posted by dave the scaffolder View Post
    My point really is who should give advice to other dancers.
    DTS Dave XXX XXX
    Quote Originally Posted by Trouble View Post

    The only people that can direct and give instruction should be the teachers, all we are there for is encouragement and maybe some small tips. We are also there to try and get people back week in week out by smiling sweetly and dancing with them till 10.00 at night.

    Taxi dancers are just dancers at the end of the day with a personality.
    There's been a discussion recently about this on the "Critisicing your dance partner" thread.

    Some points raised were -

    1. Taxi dancers tend to stop giving unasked for advice when beginners leave their review class. I suggested they carried on, as many folks assume the taxi would tell them if they were in error. ie - no news is good news.

    2. It seems teachers ditto. They often don't point out error unless asked.

    3. Teachers are too busy. Some leave early.

    4. DavidJames had the idea to introduce Intermediate Taxis, for those who have been dancing a few years and are still making people's lives a misery with their dangerous dancing.

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    Re: Who can give advice in the dance scene?

    Quote Originally Posted by dave the scaffolder View Post
    My point really is who should give advice to other dancers.

    There are ladies and men who I go to and ask advice and receive honest feedback on my dancing from this venue.

    This is my comfortable home venue which I adore, I feel at home in Stevenage.


    X
    There are people I ask for advice, and there are some I just ask for a dance with, knowing they are in a position to give advice, but I don't ask.

    I'm thinking specifically with WCS.

    I ask Gerry occasionally for a WCS and then he launches into some kind on a lesson, don't do this, don't do that, hold your hand this way. when I step back you should...........well that's the end of that, its all I can do not to walk off the floor, so its ages before the next one.

    but then there are people I will ask for a dance, they dance and then I feel strong enough to ask what was like, the pearson I will be asking for a dance again with will be Paul Harris RobD I would love to dance more with but I wouldn't ask for feed back.

    I never tell people about there dance ability unless they ask me, I was asked after Marc's Garvey on Saturday, and my reply is always with any question, think of the worst possible answer if you can handle it then ask again, I will tell you the truth as far as I see it, but in the nices possible way.

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    Re: Who can give advice in the dance scene?

    Quote Originally Posted by Trouble View Post
    The only people that can direct and give instruction should be the teachers,
    To some extent this is correct BUT if you read the taxi dancer rules as set up by ceroc headquarters you will see that a taxi should learn to dance all the beginners moves accurately (in particular the hand hold in each move) and help the beginners while they are learning and the other problem is in a lot of classes the teachers don't dance with the beginners and would find it difficult to give them advice when there are 100 or so people in a class situation

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    Re: Who can give advice in the dance scene?

    Quote Originally Posted by Trouble View Post
    ...{snip}

    98% of the dancers at Stevenage are beginners. Regulars are no longer attending like they used too lately and TBH you are one of the best dancers there and thats only because of how long you have danced for and i have smoothed you out.

    Taxi dancers are just dancers at the end of the day with a personality.
    I haven't been to Stevo for a while now. Hmmm - and interesting to hear that the regulars are no longer attending. I wonder why that is?

    Are they going to Jumping Jacks on Thursday?

    Do you still get the fixed couples situation during the lessons these days?

    Who is the regular DJ?

    Maybe I will squeeze in an appearance there some time.


    PS What was involved in the 'smoothing out' of DTS? Did it involve any accoutrements or mechanical devices?

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    Re: Who can give advice in the dance scene?

    Quote Originally Posted by martingold View Post
    To some extent this is correct BUT if you read the taxi dancer rules as set up by ceroc headquarters you will see that a taxi should learn to dance all the beginners moves accurately (in particular the hand hold in each move) and help the beginners while they are learning and the other problem is in a lot of classes the teachers don't dance with the beginners and would find it difficult to give them advice when there are 100 or so people in a class situation
    yes your right but there are also plenty of taxi dancers out there that do not know the basics and can direct incorrectly. I am a firm beleiver that taxi dancers should really just go over the routines in the beginners class normally outside in a smaller room, some handy tips and lots of encouragement. That way we are teaching the same as the teacher and not teaching the moves we know which we all know can be differently done and differently taught.

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    Re: Who can give advice in the dance scene?

    Yes i must admit Trouble has smoothed out my dancing no end and I owe a great deal to her marvelous input over the last couple of years.

    DTS Dave XXX XX

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    Re: Who can give advice in the dance scene?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cruella View Post
    The only person 'qualified' is the teacher. Anyone else that is asked for advice is entitled to give it though. Because the person asking must respect the person they have asked or they wouldn't have bothered. I've asked DavidB, Will and a few others for feedback when we've danced as I see them as experienced and great dancers. But equally I have asked others that have been dancing less time than myself, as I enjoy dancing with them and would like to know what would make my dancing better for them.
    As a taxi dancer, I think you are there to encourage the newbies and make them feel less conscious and make the evening more enjoyable for them. By getting lady No1 to stay longer, you served this purpose, so well done DTS. As for lady No2, did she say she enjoyed the dances more too? If so then again you did the right thing. If however you never see her again at the venue you might presume she took offence.


    You say "the only person qualified". Qualified to do what? Quilified at what level? Who qualified them? Do they have your respect? Are they crap teachers?......

    Im sure there are some teachers who are ""Qualified"" that you would tell them to shuv their advice.

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    Re: Who can give advice in the dance scene?

    Quote Originally Posted by fletch View Post
    I don't know why our dances were fab, I dance with all sorts of men some think there just the bis, and they might be, but not for me, others say 'i'm just a begginer, and are open fun and let me have a play

    Achaeco I will allways ask you

    and I agree, DTS your advice was spot on.



    I LOVE YOU

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    Re: Who can give advice in the dance scene?

    Quote Originally Posted by dave the scaffolder View Post
    Yes i must admit Trouble has smoothed out my dancing no end and I owe a great deal to her marvelous input over the last couple of years.

    DTS Dave XXX XX
    you smooth little dancer you lol

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    Re: Who can give advice in the dance scene?

    Quote Originally Posted by Achaeco View Post
    You say "the only person qualified". Qualified to do what? Quilified at what level? Who qualified them? Do they have your respect? Are they crap teachers?......

    Im sure there are some teachers who are ""Qualified"" that you would tell them to shuv their advice.
    Interesting point. My initial thought is that the problem is that there are many 'teachers' who aren't qualified at all i.e. they have not been taught by Ceroc, Blitz etc and are just dancers who have stepped up off the dnacefloor and decided to teach.

    Please note ... I'm NOT saying that all untrained teachers suck ... just that the likelihood of them being poorer is significantly higher. There are enough horror stories to scare people but lets just say there is enough evidence to give weight to this argument.

    As to whether 'qualified' teachers know enough to give advice ... well I think the answer is that it 'depends'. Again, the likelihood is far greater that they rather than taxi dancers etc can give appropriate advice, but whether it is right will depend on the teachers experience, training and understanding of the dancer's needs that they are advising. In some circumstances I would prefer advice from, say an experienced WCS dancer to a CTA instructor and in other cases visa versa

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    Re: Who can give advice in the dance scene?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gus View Post
    Interesting point. My initial thought is that the problem is that there are many 'teachers' who aren't qualified at all i.e. they have not been taught by Ceroc, Blitz etc and are just dancers who have stepped up off the dnacefloor and decided to teach.

    Please note ... I'm NOT saying that all untrained teachers suck ... just that the likelihood of them being poorer is significantly higher. There are enough horror stories to scare people but lets just say there is enough evidence to give weight to this argument.

    As to whether 'qualified' teachers know enough to give advice ... well I think the answer is that it 'depends'. Again, the likelihood is far greater that they rather than taxi dancers etc can give appropriate advice, but whether it is right will depend on the teachers experience, training and understanding of the dancer's needs that they are advising. In some circumstances I would prefer advice from, say an experienced WCS dancer to a CTA instructor and in other cases visa versa


    Well im shocked.............i actually agree with almost all you are saying.

    i am in firm belief that a "teacher" or someone who call's themself a teacher should have a body governing them IE UKA. If the UKA thought for a min that Ceroc have it right, they would stamp it without fail. LeRoc are closer than any MJ organisation having associate rights to the UKA.
    The sooner the UKA become involved with MJ the better.

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