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Thread: Jack & Jill Leads

  1. #1
    Senior Member Minnie M's Avatar
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    Jack & Jill Leads

    Is it fair to make an absolute beginner or a nervous beginner to enter a J&J competition just to create a gender balance !

    I can lead the basic 6 moves in WCS (done it soooooo many times in classes) but as a female I can't enter the comp as a lead - something wrong there

    OR should we follow the American way of not restricting female entrants and making the leads dance twice


    --ooOoo--
    Age is a question of mind over matter, if you don't mind, it doesn't matter
    Leroy (Satchel) Paige (1906-1982)

    Mickey Mouse's girlfriend, Minnie, made her film debut, along with Mickey, in "Steamboat Willie" on November 18, 1928.
    That date is recognized as her official birthday.

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    Dickie Davies' love-child Cruella's Avatar
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    Re: Jack & Jill Leads

    Quote Originally Posted by Minnie M View Post
    Is it fair to make an absolute beginner or a nervous beginner to enter a J&J competition just to create a gender balance !
    Who was 'made' to enter?

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    Registered User Northants Girly's Avatar
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    Re: Jack & Jill Leads

    Quote Originally Posted by Cruella View Post
    Who was 'made' to enter?
    Zuhal gave the impression that he was coerced into entering (in the WSM results thread) so I assume that's where MM is coming from here

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    Senior Member Minnie M's Avatar
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    Re: Jack & Jill Leads

    Quote Originally Posted by Northants Girly View Post
    Zuhal gave the impression that he was coerced into entering (in the WSM results thread) so I assume that's where MM is coming from here
    (wrong choice of words on my part though - sorry)

    It also happened at the WCS J&J at Brean - the leads were not forced to enter, more like gently persuaded Have to admit, I too am guilty of trying to get more leads to enter J&J / DWAS etc., but now I know it can cause distress, I promise not to do it again


    --ooOoo--
    Age is a question of mind over matter, if you don't mind, it doesn't matter
    Leroy (Satchel) Paige (1906-1982)

    Mickey Mouse's girlfriend, Minnie, made her film debut, along with Mickey, in "Steamboat Willie" on November 18, 1928.
    That date is recognized as her official birthday.

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    Commercial Operator angelique's Avatar
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    Re: Jack & Jill Leads

    So, am I right in thinking then , that females cannot enter J & J's as a lead?
    Why is this?

  6. #6
    Senior Member Minnie M's Avatar
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    Re: Jack & Jill Leads

    Quote Originally Posted by angelique View Post
    So, am I right in thinking then , that females cannot enter J & J's as a lead?
    Why is this?
    I think it is because they have 4 different combinatins of J&J in the States eg:

    1. Jack & Jill
    2. Jack & Jack
    3. Jill & Jack
    4. Jill & Jill


    The also have weekener comps - purely for J&J (I think that idea is fab)


    --ooOoo--
    Age is a question of mind over matter, if you don't mind, it doesn't matter
    Leroy (Satchel) Paige (1906-1982)

    Mickey Mouse's girlfriend, Minnie, made her film debut, along with Mickey, in "Steamboat Willie" on November 18, 1928.
    That date is recognized as her official birthday.

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    Teacher Paul F's Avatar
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    Re: Jack & Jill Leads

    Quote Originally Posted by Minnie M View Post
    Is it fair to make an absolute beginner or a nervous beginner to enter a J&J competition just to create a gender balance !
    Good question.

    As you say, its more of a pursuasion. The same kind of pursuasion when someone asks for a favour and you feel obliged to accept.

    IMO it shouldn't happen. I have witnessed people being turned off competing for ever after having been convinced to enter. Their lack of confidence is further reinforced by their lack of progress.

    One of the comps I did for WCS in the USA had the guys dancing 7 tracks in a row!!!! We were all absolutely exhausted but the overwhelming number of followers meant we had to dance.
    I made a point of saying to my partners in the later tracks that I hope I can do them justice after having dance 4 or 5 tracks straight. I hope I did but it must have an effect.

    Trouble is, this is the only way I can see to run it without 'convincing' people to enter.

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    Registered User Northants Girly's Avatar
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    Re: Jack & Jill Leads

    Quote Originally Posted by angelique View Post
    So, am I right in thinking then , that females cannot enter J & J's as a lead?
    Why is this?
    I might be wrong but I have a feeling that girls were not allowed to lead in any of the comp categories

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    Forum Bombshell - Our Queen! Lory's Avatar
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    Re: Jack & Jill Leads

    Quote Originally Posted by Northants Girly View Post
    I might be wrong but I have a feeling that girls were not allowed to lead in any of the comp categories
    No, your right!

    I've copied this from the Jive addiction rules

    General
    1. Competitors will be one Male Leader and one Female Follower.
    2. The maximum number of entries in each division is at the organisers
    discretion. There is no minimum number of entries.
    3. Guidelines for expected swing content are 90% in Strictly Swing. It is at
    the judges discretion to determine that the required swing content has
    been met.
    4. An individual is not permitted to dance twice within either the Novice or
    Open division, but can compete in both divisions.
    MODERATOR AT YOUR SERVICE
    "If you're going to do something tonight, that you know you'll be sorry for in the morning, plan a lie in." Lorraine

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    Registered User Twirly's Avatar
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    Re: Jack & Jill Leads

    Bet those rules would never stand up under sex discrimination legislation....

  11. #11
    Registered User Northants Girly's Avatar
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    Re: Jack & Jill Leads

    What are the rules with Modern Jive/Ceroc comps?

    or what about ballroom comps? I think I was told that girls could only lead in ballroom comps up until a certain age . . . . is that correct?

  12. #12
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    Re: Jack & Jill Leads

    Quote Originally Posted by Twirly View Post
    Bet those rules would never stand up under sex discrimination legislation....

    I'm amazed that Jive Addiction have such a rule.

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    Senior Member Minnie M's Avatar
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    Re: Jack & Jill Leads

    Quote Originally Posted by RedFox View Post

    I'm amazed that Jive Addiction have such a rule.
    Don't think it is JA rules - it the WDSC


    --ooOoo--
    Age is a question of mind over matter, if you don't mind, it doesn't matter
    Leroy (Satchel) Paige (1906-1982)

    Mickey Mouse's girlfriend, Minnie, made her film debut, along with Mickey, in "Steamboat Willie" on November 18, 1928.
    That date is recognized as her official birthday.

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    Registered User stewart38's Avatar
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    Re: Jack & Jill Leads

    Quote Originally Posted by Northants Girly View Post
    What are the rules with Modern Jive/Ceroc comps?

    or what about ballroom comps? I think I was told that girls could only lead in ballroom comps up until a certain age . . . . is that correct?
    I note they have already sold out of ladies places in the lucky dip (Cerco Champs) just booked mine

    I wonder if for next year they could just make it open re leads

    If your a women and dont like to be lead by a women then you know the comp isnt for you as that may occur

    with more and more women tending to lead I never understand why this isnt a solution even at weekenders , instead of arbituray 50/50 men women split

    Half the women on this froum could lead better then me ,know more moves anyway

    I know policing it would be hard but....

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    Dickie Davies' love-child Cruella's Avatar
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    Re: Jack & Jill Leads

    Quote Originally Posted by stewart38 View Post
    with more and more women tending to lead I never understand why this isnt a solution even at weekenders , instead of arbituray 50/50 men women split
    Because we would rather have the choice betweeen leading and following, we don't want the choice to be between leading and sitting down, which is usually the only reason I lead.

  16. #16
    Registered User Northants Girly's Avatar
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    Re: Jack & Jill Leads

    Quote Originally Posted by stewart38 View Post
    I note they have already sold out of ladies places in the lucky dip (Cerco Champs) just booked mine
    Wanna borrow a skirt then?

  17. #17
    Registered User stewart38's Avatar
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    Re: Jack & Jill Leads

    Quote Originally Posted by Cruella View Post
    Because we would rather have the choice betweeen leading and following, we don't want the choice to be between leading and sitting down, which is usually the only reason I lead.

    For weekenders its harder I agree and open to abuse but what about say ceroc comp ?

    We had all female intermediate entries

    why not make lucky dip non gender specific ? (Im on the fence with that idea)

    WCS seems to have a lack of male leads so why not encourage female leads supported by comps ?

    why in 2008 should just men lead ?

  18. #18
    Dickie Davies' love-child Cruella's Avatar
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    Re: Jack & Jill Leads

    Quote Originally Posted by stewart38 View Post
    For weekenders its harder I agree and open to abuse (nice try Franco) but what about say ceroc comp ?

    We had all female intermediate entries

    why not make lucky dip non gender specific ? (Im on the fence with that idea)

    WCS seems to have a lack of male leads so why not encourage female leads supported by comps ?

    why in 2008 should just men lead ?
    I am in agreement here, I think the gender shouldn't matter in a competition and in most of the MJ comps, it doesn't. I've yet to see a same gender couple win though, (although that may change this year at the Ceroc Champs, as we have a very good same sex couple entering! ) I think Jenny and Danni did pretty well at the Midlands champs but I can't remember exactly where they came.

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    Re: Jack & Jill Leads

    Quote Originally Posted by stewart38 View Post
    For weekenders its harder I agree and open to abuse but what about say ceroc comp ?

    We had all female intermediate entries

    why not make lucky dip non gender specific ? (Im on the fence with that idea)

    WCS seems to have a lack of male leads so why not encourage female leads supported by comps ?

    why in 2008 should just men lead ?
    I was thinking of "following" in the competition as I feel my leading has become alittle bit stale.

    Managed to follow in one of the workshops, got a few stares at the start but they seemed to be happy with how I followed.

  20. #20
    Registered User stewart38's Avatar
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    Re: Jack & Jill Leads

    Quote Originally Posted by Cruella View Post
    I am in agreement here, I think the gender shouldn't matter in a competition and in most of the MJ comps, it doesn't. I've yet to see a same gender couple win though, (although that may change this year at the Ceroc Champs, as we have a very good same sex couple entering! ) I think Jenny and Danni did pretty well at the Midlands champs but I can't remember exactly where they came.
    was it batman (played by a women) and super women , they got my vote at last years champs

    Is there a link somewhere ??

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