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Thread: Is JK Rowling doing the right thing?

  1. #21
    Registered User DianaS's Avatar
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    Re: Is JK Rowling doing the right thing?

    Imagine you spend twelve yeras of your life developing a series of books, hand crafting them, publishing them, ensuring that when they are broadcast on the radio they go out in one broadcast (children would always forget and miss an episode.)
    Then some tosser decides to publish a lexicon.

    Basically, they f8ck with it
    It's probably an infringement of copywrite, but more importantly its an imfringement on her creative work. Her thoughts, her views and her knowledge.

    If she didnt put a stop to it, I would definalty think less of her.

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    Re: Is JK Rowling doing the right thing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadful Scathe View Post
    er..no. Shes complaining about them publishing a book...

    ...Fan-sites are not books and none of this information is available "for free" in book form AT ALL. JK is trying to prevent publication of a book based on her original work ...
    I would regard text available on a website for free, in my own home, all readily indexed and cross-referenced, as more dangerous competion than the same information printed in a book, which had to be paid for and thumbed through.


    and there is no evidence that she delayed, so "suddenly" seems like a strange word for you to use.
    The lexicon has been there for a long period, long enough for it to be used in the creation of later books. She has been taking advantage of his work.

    We know any book based on JKs ideas will make money and if the "loyal fans" require "recompense for all of their efforts over the years" they are not what i would call loyal. I'd call them cynical, exploitive and greedy.
    I think it is you being cynical. (A good quantity of stones and no panes left in my glass house.) I believe the lexicon author when he said it was done for love at the start. I am also sure that he is smart enough to see there might be a profit in it. I also believe that it wil not be a huge seller until Harry Potter enters the world of literay exams. (if he is not there already.)

    AJR should have had this material already for publishing. She would not have made the mistakes she did if she had kept better track of her fantasy world. She possibly avoided others by referencing the website.

    It is my guess that she would lose the case if it went through the legal process, but I doubt the lexicons side have pockets deep enough.

  3. #23
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    Re: Is JK Rowling doing the right thing?

    Quote Originally Posted by DianaS View Post
    Imagine you spend twelve yeras of your life developing a series of books, hand crafting them, publishing them, ensuring that when they are broadcast on the radio they go out in one broadcast (children would always forget and miss an episode.)
    Then some tosser decides to publish a lexicon.

    Basically, they f8ck with it
    It's probably an infringement of copywrite, but more importantly its an imfringement on her creative work. Her thoughts, her views and her knowledge.

    If she didnt put a stop to it, I would definalty think less of her.
    The books will always stand on their own merits. The lexicon is definitely not a good yarn, not in competition with her books.

    Her thoughts and views are valid subjects for discussion. The source of her knowledge is a matter of interest, as is what ideas and literary devices she has got from others. I think other people are allowed to discuss her work, and have the right to seek recompense for making that discussion availiable.

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    Re: Is JK Rowling doing the right thing?

    I can't see how she can win tho.

    You think lexicons are a new idea ? To take an example, that their are no Dr. Who lexicons ? There are tons of them.

    It's an old idea and this Potter lexicon does nothing different to the millions of existing lexicons out there.

    It's been accepted for decades that a lexicon can reprint parts of copyrighted text. Maybe it comes under 'Fair use' (or something?). Not a lawyer so don't know.



    P.S. Did you see the U.S. judge describe her work as gibberish ?

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    Re: Is JK Rowling doing the right thing?

    Quote Originally Posted by TA Guy View Post
    P.S. Did you see the U.S. judge describe her work as gibberish ?
    Thats hardly relevant Maybe he was talking about the last 2 books then. Not book 3, that was great

    I wonder what the judge who sat for the Da Vinci Code lawsuit had to say about THAT ? Harry Potter is Chekov in comparison

  6. #26
    Registered User Ronde!'s Avatar
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    Re: Is JK Rowling doing the right thing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadful Scathe View Post
    Its a lexicon. They are. Thats the point

    Quoting bits of something in high school is the same as wholesale copying of someones work purely for profit? What colour is the sun in your world ?

    And a lexicon is entirely original you think? you must know something the rest of us don't !
    Sigh. By definition, a "lexicon" is a dictionary, and therefore a reference work rather than a creative one. Your claiming that such a work is "wholesale copying of someones work" is purely parroting Rowling's point of view, rather than an actual analysis of the content of the book. I mean... have you actually READ it? LoL.

    A lexicon can be an original work, even if it is based on analysis of the work of others. There are numerous works that provide similar references to cultural creative works such as Lord of the Rings, Star Trek, and Star Wars.

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    Re: Is JK Rowling doing the right thing?

    Quote Originally Posted by TA Guy View Post
    You think lexicons are a new idea ? To take an example, that their are no Dr. Who lexicons ? There are tons of them.
    yes, and all licenced by the BBC.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ronde! View Post
    Sigh. By definition, a "lexicon" is a dictionary, and therefore a reference work rather than a creative one.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ronde! View Post
    A lexicon can be an original work, even if it is based on analysis of the work of others.
    So its not creative except when it is? I'm so glad you're here to clear stuff like that up

    Quote Originally Posted by Ronde! View Post
    There are numerous works that provide similar references to cultural creative works such as Lord of the Rings, Star Trek, and Star Wars.

    Indeed, but as far as i know they are all licenced. Is it common to have unofficial, unbadged lexicons then?

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    Re: Is JK Rowling doing the right thing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadful Scathe View Post
    ...So its not creative except when it is? I'm so glad you're here to clear stuff like that up ...
    No, it is the courts that are here to clear up "stuff like that".

    JKR invented several words. It could be argued that they are "hers", and that nobody should use those words without her permission.

    If you allow words, then what about phrases? Sentences? Paragraphs?
    Pages? Where does the line get drawn?

    How about plot? Is anybody allowed to reveal who does what, lives or dies? Finding out these things is a major motivation for people buying and reading the books.

    Letting an author decide who can write what about their books could be a major threat to criticism and freedom of expression. AJR may well want to write her own lexicon, but she may be not aware of her own errors, or less likely to discuss them. She might be less than keen to discuss where she got her inspirations. She has already fought off at least one author who claimed she had used her work.

    "Fair use" is a grey area, and often has to be decided on a case by case basis, which is why we have courts to do that job, if the parties cannot agree. The judge has already suggested that the two parties should sort it out between themselves, which I guess would result in AJR getting a license fee, or the book being suppressed.

    Do we want a world where Hitler would have had to be paid if someone wanted to quote his words to expose their evil?

    Should I have to pay AJR for using her own words to counter her own position?

  9. #29
    Not a spoon! Lou's Avatar
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    Re: Is JK Rowling doing the right thing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadful Scathe View Post
    Indeed, but as far as i know they are all licenced. Is it common to have unofficial, unbadged lexicons then?
    When they're sold at fan conventions - yes.

  10. #30
    Registered User Ronde!'s Avatar
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    Re: Is JK Rowling doing the right thing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadful Scathe View Post
    So its not creative except when it is? I'm so glad you're here to clear stuff like that up
    Dude, you need to get yourself a dictionary. There is a difference between an "original" work and a "creative" one.

    A lexicon can be (and generally, is) an original work in that it provides original definition, analysis and commentary on a theme, rather than inventing or creating new elements of that theme or story (which would make it a creative work). Just as a dictionary can be an original work, but doesn't invent anything that hasn't already been created - merely defines or analyses it.

    Look at a page of the online lexicon and this becomes obvious. There are quotes from the book, followed by an analysis of each quote with reference to the term being described or defined. It's certainly not creative; but the analysis is original.

    Honestly... I sometimes feel like people should get a handle on the nuances of English semantics before debating the nuances of English literature... LoL
    Last edited by Ronde!; 22nd-April-2008 at 04:26 AM.

  11. #31
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    Re: Is JK Rowling doing the right thing?

    If JKR hadn't written the HP books, then the lexicon would not exist.... simple really.... the lexicon relies on the HP work - aka not original at all. Just someone profiting from someone else's hard work.

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    Re: Is JK Rowling doing the right thing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ronde! View Post
    It's certainly not creative; but the analysis is original.
    Well my lexicon of "Dreadful Scathes English Usage" disagrees with your use of both the word "lexicon" and "dictionary". Incidentally, a "Ronde!" is a small prawn like creature that historically is always wrong. So sayeth my book, which I take to be canon as regards the English Language.

    Honestly... I sometimes feel like people should get a handle on the nuances of English semantics before debating the nuances of English literature... LoL
    Is a lexicon literature now, or do you mean your posts ? This from a man that starts a post "Dude" and ends with "LoL"


    Quote Originally Posted by ~*~Saligal~*~ View Post
    If JKR hadn't written the HP books, then the lexicon would not exist.... simple really.... the lexicon relies on the HP work - aka not original at all. Just someone profiting from someone else's hard work.

    Indeed it is - JKR is in the business of publishing books, surely a lexicon entirely based on her fictional world should be licenced?

  13. #33
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    Re: Is JK Rowling doing the right thing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadful Scathe View Post
    ... Indeed it is - JKR is in the business of publishing books, surely a lexicon entirely based on her fictional world should be licenced?
    I believe there should be freedom to analyse and criticise, and I am not alone. Letting the copyright owner decide who can analyse and criticise by issuing licnses is a dangerous path.

    These cases have to be decided on their own merits, which is why it is before a judge.

  14. #34
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    Re: Is JK Rowling doing the right thing?

    Quote Originally Posted by bigdjiver View Post
    I believe there should be freedom to analyse and criticise, and I am not alone. Letting the copyright owner decide who can analyse and criticise by issuing licnses is a dangerous path.
    In the case of most fictional figures - that seems to be how it is done. But is a lexicon an analysis or is it simply palgiarism? Certainly study aids, parody and that sort of thing are free speech in their own right but this is more of a grey area i think.

    These cases have to be decided on their own merits, which is why it is before a judge.

    quite right too

  15. #35
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    Re: Is JK Rowling doing the right thing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadful Scathe View Post
    <drivel></drivel>
    Indeed it is - JKR is in the business of publishing books, surely a lexicon entirely based on her fictional world should be licenced?
    As a matter of law, the answer is quite clear:
    Quote Originally Posted by RDR Books defence team, incl. Stanford University Fair Use Project
    Source
    In support of her position Ms Rowling appears to claim a monopoly on the right to publish literary reference guides, and other non-academic research, relating to her own fiction. This is a right no court has ever recognized. It has little to recommend it. If accepted, it would dramatically extend the reach of copyright protection, and eliminate an entire genre of literary supplements: third party reference guides to fiction, which for centuries have helped readers better access, understand and enjoy literary works.
    I myself studied law at the Australian National University, and I believe this is an accurate analysis of the law as it pertains to copyright in this case. Rowling's a great author, but that doesn't entitle her to rewrite the law. Dude.

    LoL.

  16. #36
    Registered User stewart38's Avatar
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    Re: Is JK Rowling doing the right thing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ronde! View Post
    As a matter of law, the answer is quite clear:

    I myself studied law at the Australian National University, and I believe this is an accurate analysis of the law as it pertains to copyright in this case. Rowling's a great author, but that doesn't entitle her to rewrite the law. Dude.

    LoL.
    So what did you do go through a few hundred old threads and bounce this one back ? or think about the comment for 4 months then respond ?

    I thought something had happened , disagreeing with DS isn't really news ?

  17. #37
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    Re: Is JK Rowling doing the right thing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ronde! View Post
    As a matter of law, the answer is quite clear:

    I myself studied law at the Australian National University, and I believe this is an accurate analysis of the law as it pertains to copyright in this case. Rowling's a great author, but that doesn't entitle her to rewrite the law. Dude.

    LoL.

    I think Rawling's laywers have probably studied law too... Maybe even practised it for a while? Why do you think it's going to court?
    As a professional in the creative field, I really do not support people skimming off others hard work. Fan-sites, fine. Publishing work based solely on someone elses hard work for profit, me think not!
    HP is not really an idea, it's a series of books created by Rawlings. The maker of the lexicon would never have come up with the idea if it hadn't been for her work already.
    Usually, reference books of that kind are made in cooperation with the original creator (or by the company who legally owns the series).

  18. #38
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    Re: Is JK Rowling doing the right thing?

    Quote Originally Posted by stewart38 View Post
    I thought something had happened , disagreeing with DS isn't really news ?
    Certainly not

    Quote Originally Posted by Villemo View Post
    Usually, reference books of that kind are made in cooperation with the original creator (or by the company who legally owns the series).
    Indeed, my point all along

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    Re: Is JK Rowling doing the right thing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Villemo View Post
    ...Usually, reference books of that kind are made in cooperation with the original creator (or by the company who legally owns the series).
    Which is where freedom of expression comes in. If the lexicon had to be approved we could only be able to see lexicons that said nice things. No page 53 vol 1 says ... but page 103 volume 4 says ... No page 93 vol 2 seems lifted from ...

    The lawyers may be saying that she will probably lose, but the publicists may be saying go ahead, and the accountants saying grind the opposition into the dust wit legal costs.

    I believe that the judge suggested that she came to an arrangement.

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