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Thread: "The Ceroc Champs are fixed"

  1. #81
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    Re: "The Ceroc Champs are fixed"

    Notts Forest, a team with an awsome history: the only team to have won European Cup more times than they won the league, to qualify.

    Notts County... imagine me dancing to a latin track, then equate that to Football!!!!

    Norwich County: nothing to do with anything, but I brought them into the mix because I mistakenly thought Notts County were "The Canaries".

    Man City: see Will

  2. #82
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    Re: "The Ceroc Champs are fixed"

    Quote Originally Posted by CJ View Post
    Norwich County: nothing to do with anything, but I brought them into the mix because I mistakenly thought Notts County were "The Canaries".
    They don't even exist, mate. You mean Norwich City, I think. You're doing very well with your knowledge of English football...

  3. #83
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    Re: "The Ceroc Champs are fixed"

    Quote Originally Posted by Lou View Post
    They don't even exist, mate. You mean Norwich City, I think. You're doing very well with your knowledge of English football...
    Nor does Notts Forest.

    Nottm Forest on the other hand.....

  4. #84
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    Re: "The Ceroc Champs are fixed"

    Quote Originally Posted by Achaeco View Post
    Ok. So let take Ceroc Midlands 1st comp.
    I was'nt there but i have been told that competitor level was not as high as ours, Britrock, ceroc Champs ect.
    Do we and others make the intermediate winner who were not up against the level of competitor that they would have been ot the others comps go into the advanced?????

    Is that fair???
    A very good point, and one that has been debated at length in Australia.

    For example, CerocAustralia dance company have decided, if you have placed at a "recognised" national event in that catogory, then you should move up to the next catogory. They go on to list the "recognised" comps.
    This does not include the more local or less well attended comps.

    I personaly do agree, if you have placed at a less well attended, or local comp, and then placed, it should not automatically send you up to the next level.
    However if you have competed at a comparable event, with a good turn out of good dancers, then accept it is time to move up.

    A couple of quotes from the web site....


    Recognised National comps



    The following companies are recognised as hosting or co-hosting Modern Jive competitions, which are recognised as national competitions for the purposes of determining the category you are eligible to compete in:

    Sydney:
    Ceroc Australia Dance Company
    Ceroc & Modern Jive Dance Company
    Brisbane:
    Le Step Dance Company
    Melbourne:
    Ceroc Melbourne Dance Company
    Le Bop Dance Company
    New Zealand:
    Ceroc New Zealand
    UK:
    Ceroc UK
    Chance to Dance
    BritRoc



    and in regard to specifics...

    Previous level of competition


    If a competitor has previously competed in a recognised competition at a given level at any time in the past, they will not be allowed to compete in these Championships at a lower level.

    However, if an individual has previously competed at a higher level, with a more advanced partner and did not place in that competition, then special application may be made to the organisers to be allowed to
    compete at the appropriate level for that individual. Assuming an appropriate number of competitors compete.

    Note that if dancers have significant dance experience, other than modern jive, they may be asked to compete at an appropriately higher level. This decision is at the discretion of the organisers.


    A lot of time and energy goes into the creation of rules. I have also had a small part in these chats.

    I am using CerocAustralia.com.au as an example, a lot of the other organisers do the same, and respect to them.

  5. #85
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    Re: "The Ceroc Champs are fixed"

    A very good answer... and a very sensible arrangement!!

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    Re: "The Ceroc Champs are fixed"

    Quote Originally Posted by Billi Wiz View Post
    A very good answer... and a very sensible arrangement!!
    Just a thought

    For those who have won been placed in a comp before ,can anyone give me some advice

    I have permanent miserable face (see SF comments) so when I win the intermediates and have the photo shoot any pointers?

    I was thinking of saying ‘cheese’?

    Nothing nasty please just a few pointers and few words maybe for my speach ?

    Just in case we dont win I've got a 'we were rob' speach ready

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    Not a spoon! Lou's Avatar
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    Re: "The Ceroc Champs are fixed"

    Quote Originally Posted by stewart38 View Post
    Just in case we dont win I've got a 'we were robd' speach ready
    Good plan, Stewart.

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    Registered User Billi Wiz's Avatar
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    Re: "The Ceroc Champs are fixed"

    Or alternatively...

    "Who do I need to s**g to win this thing!"...

  9. #89
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    Re: "The Ceroc Champs are fixed"

    Quote Originally Posted by Billi Wiz View Post
    Or alternatively...

    "Who do I need to s**g to win this thing!"...
    Getting into southport for women now is very hard so makes me wonder what this '30 more sleeps' is really about

  10. #90
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    Re: "The Ceroc Champs are fixed"

    Quote Originally Posted by Martin View Post
    A very good point, and one that has been debated at length in Australia.

    For example, CerocAustralia dance company have decided, if you have placed at a "recognised" national event in that catogory, then you should move up to the next catogory. They go on to list the "recognised" comps.
    This does not include the more local or less well attended comps.

    A lot of time and energy goes into the creation of rules. I have also had a small part in these chats.

    I am using CerocAustralia.com.au as an example, a lot of the other organisers do the same, and respect to them.
    It would seem to make a lot of sense to assimilate these rules rather than reinvent the wheel again?

  11. #91
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    Re: "The Ceroc Champs are fixed"

    Quote Originally Posted by stewart38 View Post
    I have permanent miserable face (see SF comments) so when I win the intermediates and have the photo shoot any pointers?

    I was thinking of saying ‘cheese’?

    You get a much better pout if you say "Wogan"

    Daisy

    (A Toggy Little FLower)

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    Re: "The Ceroc Champs are fixed"

    Quote Originally Posted by Martin View Post
    A very good point, and one that has been debated at length in Australia.

    For example, CerocAustralia dance company have decided, if you have placed at a "recognised" national event in that catogory, then you should move up to the next catogory. They go on to list the "recognised" comps.
    This does not include the more local or less well attended comps.

    I personaly do agree, if you have placed at a less well attended, or local comp, and then placed, it should not automatically send you up to the next level.
    However if you have competed at a comparable event, with a good turn out of good dancers, then accept it is time to move up.

    A couple of quotes from the web site....


    Recognised National comps



    The following companies are recognised as hosting or co-hosting Modern Jive competitions, which are recognised as national competitions for the purposes of determining the category you are eligible to compete in:

    Sydney:
    Ceroc Australia Dance Company
    Ceroc & Modern Jive Dance Company
    Brisbane:
    Le Step Dance Company
    Melbourne:
    Ceroc Melbourne Dance Company
    Le Bop Dance Company
    New Zealand:
    Ceroc New Zealand
    UK:
    Ceroc UK
    Chance to Dance
    BritRoc



    and in regard to specifics...

    Previous level of competition


    If a competitor has previously competed in a recognised competition at a given level at any time in the past, they will not be allowed to compete in these Championships at a lower level.

    However, if an individual has previously competed at a higher level, with a more advanced partner and did not place in that competition, then special application may be made to the organisers to be allowed to
    compete at the appropriate level for that individual. Assuming an appropriate number of competitors compete.

    Note that if dancers have significant dance experience, other than modern jive, they may be asked to compete at an appropriately higher level. This decision is at the discretion of the organisers.


    A lot of time and energy goes into the creation of rules. I have also had a small part in these chats.

    I am using CerocAustralia.com.au as an example, a lot of the other organisers do the same, and respect to them.


    Yep, it would be nice to have all the comp scoring the same way and giving everyone the same chances, however, ceroc are different, im not going to go into detail but my wife is a Ceroc teacher and has been for over 10 years, she was asked to judge last year, she refused due to the scoring system and how unfair it is.

    For this reason C2D can not remain as fair and independent as we are if we consider other comp's.
    Im not saying all comps are like Ceroc, i know britrock do a fab job as do leRoc.
    maybe one day we can get together and sort out a scoring system for all comps, have independent judges that are not affiliated to the comp!!!

  13. #93
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    Re: "The Ceroc Champs are fixed"

    Quote Originally Posted by Achaeco View Post
    Yep, it would be nice to have all the comp scoring the same way and giving everyone the same chances, however, ceroc are different, im not going to go into detail but my wife is a Ceroc teacher and has been for over 10 years, she was asked to judge last year, she refused due to the scoring system and how unfair it is.
    Can you expand on that ?

    People are paying around £34,000 to enter and turn up this year (Thats a rough guestimate)

    whats wrong with the scoring system

    Ive said before it does annoy me when some judges are chatting to each other and have made their mind up half way through the first track and NOT looking at the dancing but hey ho

  14. #94
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    Re: "The Ceroc Champs are fixed"

    Quote Originally Posted by stewart38 View Post
    Can you expand on that ?

    People are paying around £34,000 to enter and turn up this year (Thats a rough guestimate)

    whats wrong with the scoring system

    Ive said before it does annoy me when some judges are chatting to each other and have made their mind up half way through the first track and NOT looking at the dancing but hey ho

    You have just covered it!!

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    Re: "The Ceroc Champs are fixed"

    Quote Originally Posted by Achaeco View Post
    You have just covered it!!
    I think there is a big difference between what I perceive to be happening on occasions and you saying the 'scoring system is corrupt'

    The judges I’m sure work dam hard so just wanted to know what you mean re the Scoring System being so unfair

    To who ?
    How ?

    I agree with 90% of the decisions anyway

  16. #96
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    Re: "The Ceroc Champs are fixed"

    you disagree with 1 in 10 ? is that in each round or just the final placements ?

  17. #97
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    Re: "The Ceroc Champs are fixed"

    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadful Scathe View Post
    you disagree with 1 in 10 ? is that in each round or just the final placements ?
    Sometimes there can be a obvious ‘fix’

    Some guy last year ,dancing in the 4th round of the intermediates a obvious plant. Many said that at the time but it’s rare thank god

    Or a name (usually male) with a female dancer of 2 weeks in the 4th round of lucky dip etc

    However these people don’t win get placed, now that would be contentious

    In the final round say the last 5/6 couples most times the judges ‘get it right’ and agree with at least 2 of my 3 top placements

    I know the judges get a tough time but im sure for every one a 100 would take their place

  18. #98
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    Re: "The Ceroc Champs are fixed"

    Quote Originally Posted by stewart38 View Post
    Ive said before it does annoy me when some judges are chatting to each other and have made their mind up half way through the first track and NOT looking at the dancing but hey ho
    Often the judges you see chatting are not judging that particular competition – they don't all do all of them.
    Let your mind go and your body will follow. – Steve Martin, LA Story

  19. #99
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    Re: "The Ceroc Champs are fixed"

    Scoring systems

    There are 2 things to consider - how each judge marks, and how the marks are collated.

    Marking can be done several ways:
    • You can give marks (eg out of 10), or places (1st, 2nd etc). In the heats you can also give a simple recall (yes/no to the next round)
    • You can give overall marks, or marks for specific criteria
    • Marks out of 10 can be absolute (0 is bad, 10 is perfect) or relative marks (an 'average' dancer at that level gets 5, the best get 10, the worst zero)
    • With multiple heats do you treat each heat individually (3 couples from each heat) or across all the heats (12 couples from 4 heats)
    Collating the marks also has several options:
    • Do you take the overall total, or a majority decision. (eg one couple gets 1,1,1,6,6 and another couple gets 2,2,2,1,1 - Who wins?)
    • How do you handle ties?
    • If using marks, how do you ensure consistency between one judge's marks and another's?
    • If the judges mark several criteria, do you use the individual marks, or just the total?
    • Do you worry about one judge being completely out of line with the rest?
    • What do you do about mistakes (eg a wrong number written down, or too few or too many people recalled to the next round)
    You also have other things to consider - how long does it take to collate the results, how many people are needed to do it, accuracy and checking of results, how much information is made available to the competitors, what do you do if the computer fails, etc.

    It is not a trivial task. A competition the size of Weston generates about 6,000 marks.


    Re Judges chatting
    Often we are talking about whether a particular move was legal, or what number a couple is, or how many we are recalling, or how many tracks in this heat?

    Re 'Names' dancing with absolute beginners
    An advanced male dancer and a beginner lady can still look better than most intermediate couples, especially if you only get to see them for 5 seconds.
    A good lady with a beginner man is unlikely to do as well.

  20. #100
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    Re: "The Ceroc Champs are fixed"

    Quote Originally Posted by ducasi View Post
    Often the judges you see chatting are not judging that particular competition – they don't all do all of them.
    Don't you dare derail a perfectly good conspiracy theory

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