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Thread: Improving footstep technique.

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    Registered User Easily Led's Avatar
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    Improving footstep technique.

    I would like to feel more comfortable doing footsteps. Sometimes, when expertly led, they go alright but I often mess up. When footsteps are taught in class it is often difficult to see what the teacher is doing and not enough time is spent on them IMO .

    Is there anywhere where footsteps are shown in EXPLICIT detail (I am better with pictures than words being a visual learner), either on the internet, video or in a book (!), Also which footsteps are essential for an Intermediate to be familiar with besides the mambo, columbian, rockstep, lockstep, ochos/logstep and cha cha cha? I don't really want to go to Ballroom classes as well at the moment because of time and costs.

    I realise that Leaders can avoid most footsteps if they want to but as a follower you can't do this and I hate to disappoint my leads!

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    Basically lazy robd's Avatar
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    Re: Improving footstep technique.

    Whilst applauding the willingness to improve and learn I am not sure that you can get everything you want from self study. Some of the footwork you describe should be leadable by the leader (d'uh!) and really leave you no choice in what to do. But that's not to say you can't polish the technique - practice ensurring that weight is transferred fully between steps and not getting caught in 'no-(wo)man's land' (unless of course it's a rock step where you'd want to practice not fully committing) Ochoes and some other steps require a good sense of balance and some disassociation (?) of upper body and hips/legs and you could practice that just leaning against a wall.

    Sorry, bit rambly but lots of work to do and shouldn't even be on here really

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    Re: Improving footstep technique.

    Personally I think the only leaders that lead footsteps are the ones that are just crossing the beginners / intermediate bridge. They have just learnt some fancy footwork and are keen to try it out to impress the person they are dancing with.

    From a follwers point of view, I get lead in to footwork moves a fair bit and it always pretty much confusses me unless they are lead really well or the person leading shouts out what move they are about to do (there is a thread about the columbian on here somewhere). Most leads just expect you to know the footwork or what move they are about to do. With these people (a good 90% of those who lead the move) can not lead it well and even the most experianced follows will not know what they are about to do or the footwork that is expected.

    My little piece of advice is not to worry about it too much. You will not be the only person struggling with following the move. I dont think any extra classes, lessons or books will help all that much unless. Also just try to relax when you get lead in to them, if you worry about the footwork you will become less leadable.

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    Re: Improving footstep technique.

    Quote Originally Posted by Easily Led View Post
    I would like to feel more comfortable doing footsteps. Sometimes, when expertly led, they go alright but I often mess up. When footsteps are taught in class it is often difficult to see what the teacher is doing and not enough time is spent on them IMO .

    Is there anywhere where footsteps are shown in EXPLICIT detail (I am better with pictures than words being a visual learner), either on the internet, video or in a book (!), Also which footsteps are essential for an Intermediate to be familiar with besides the mambo, columbian, rockstep, lockstep, ochos/logstep and cha cha cha? I don't really want to go to Ballroom classes as well at the moment because of time and costs.

    I realise that Leaders can avoid most footsteps if they want to but as a follower you can't do this and I hate to disappoint my leads!
    The problem with most MJ classes is the length of time for instruction. If you're trying to teach 4 moves in 30 minutes then it is difficult to spend much time on footwork. In fact one of the things that made MJ easier for me when I first started is that I didn't have complex foot work to remember as well!

    As RobD says some of the footwork is leadable (manhattan/mambo, rock step, rotating eskimo). Others need knowledge (columbian, charleston). In freestyle I do the former (and we danced several moves with footwork perfectly well at the Jive Nites Ball) and never do the latter. In fact, I get annoyed in classes that teach complicated footwork that is no use to me in freestyle, but of course some people dance with more regular partners so like the idea of routines that they can practice.

    I've got a couple of the Aussie DVDs that do focus on the footwork as well so I'm sure they're out there.

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    Re: Improving footstep technique.

    Quote Originally Posted by Agente Secreto View Post
    As RobD says some of the footwork is leadable (manhattan/mambo, rock step, rotating eskimo).
    Rotating Eskimo????

    You made that one up!

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    Re: Improving footstep technique.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lee Bartholomew View Post
    Personally I think the only leaders that lead footsteps are the ones that are just crossing the beginners / intermediate bridge. They have just learnt some fancy footwork and are keen to try it out to impress the person they are dancing with.
    No, these are the people who *don't* lead footwork, but expect you to do it anyway.
    Let your mind go and your body will follow. – Steve Martin, LA Story

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    Registered User Daisy Chain's Avatar
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    Re: Improving footstep technique.

    There's the added problem of each man doing a footstep move slightly differently (depending how well he has remembered the taught move). By the time I've cottoned on, the move is over.

    But I love footstep moves and I'm so impressed with men that successfully lead me through them. I'm even more impressed if a man can do footwork without staring intently at his feet.

    Daisy

    (A Slow Little Flower)

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    Registered User Billi Wiz's Avatar
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    Re: Improving footstep technique.

    There are good classes that can help..

    One of the problems with Modern Jive is that we are taught moves very quickly so miss out on a lot of basics like; leading a move in with your chest, keeping a good frame, keeping arms spring-like, keeping your centre balanced, heads up etc.. There are classes I have done with folk like Franck in Scotland and Keith Davis where these skills are explained and encouraged...

    Classes with these guys helped my dancing no end... I'm sure there are other good ones out there too!!

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    Omnipresent Administrator Franck's Avatar
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    Re: Improving footstep technique.

    Quote Originally Posted by Billi Wiz View Post
    Tleading a move in with your chest, keeping a good frame, keeping arms spring-like, keeping your centre balanced, heads up etc..
    I agree, the first step for you would be to make sure your feet are predictable. The leader should be able to feel / predict your weight distribution so he knows which foot is free, but he should also be able to lead your footwork through the upper body connection. For this as a follower (and for leaders too) you need to have what I would call 'vertical connection or frame': In the same way that your arms should move your torso, your torso should move your hips who in turn move your feet, so that if I move your right hand back, your shoulder and upper body move back too taking your hip and right foot with it. That kind of connection will allow leaders to experiment with footwork more and lead moves that most people assume are not leadable (and yes, as DavidJames would have pointed out if he wasn't taking a break, the Columbian and other similar moves are perfectly leadable). If your body moves as one unit, leaders can take responsibility for your footwork.

    It's also very important to learn patience as a follower as your tendency will be to recognize a footwork patter (rightly or wrongly) and rush into it, ignoring the lead in the process. Connect within yourself and with your partner and follow!

    Finally, I would agree with Ducasi that the 'New Intermediates' Lee was referring to do not lead the footwork moves, they give a signal to start a pre-programmed sequence of steps. Good leaders actually lead every step, I know I do with followers of any experience, provided I feel sufficient connection and predictable movement from my partner.
    Franck.

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    Forum Bombshell - Our Queen! Lory's Avatar
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    Re: Improving footstep technique.

    Quote Originally Posted by Franck View Post
    Good leaders actually lead every step,
    Last night, I was lucky enough to dance with Robert Royston And I couldn't believe the stuff he was able to make me do, with what appeared to be, absolute ease!
    Patterns I've never done in my life before but I couldn't put a foot wrong! the man is a genius!
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    Basically lazy robd's Avatar
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    Re: Improving footstep technique.

    Quote Originally Posted by Franck View Post
    as DavidJames would have pointed out if he wasn't taking a break
    Is he? I hadn't noticed

    Quote Originally Posted by Lory View Post
    Last night, I was lucky enough to dance with Robert And I couldn't believe the stuff he was able to make me do, with what appeared to be, absolute ease!
    ....the man is a genius!
    It's all in the name, obviously

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    Re: Improving footstep technique.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lee Bartholomew View Post
    Rotating Eskimo????

    You made that one up!
    No. I'm sure there is a local name for it but since I learned it from an Aussie DVD all I have is the name that Mark Harding uses for it............

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    Re: Improving footstep technique.

    Quote Originally Posted by robd View Post
    Is he? I hadn't noticed
    I'm sure he'll be back when the music starts again...

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    Re: Improving footstep technique.

    Quote Originally Posted by Franck View Post
    I agree, the first step for you would be to make sure your feet are predictable.
    lol, good thing you're not a follower Franck

    Quote Originally Posted by Lory View Post
    Last night, I was lucky enough to dance with Robert Royston
    And I couldn't believe the stuff he was able to make me do, with what appeared to be, absolute ease!
    Patterns I've never done in my life before but I couldn't put a foot wrong! the man is a genius!
    He is - I had a private with him last year and I remember him telling me to 'commit my hips' to him so that he could lead all my footwork (and I'm talking fancy syncopated stuff, not the basics)... impressive...

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    Forum Bombshell - Our Queen! Lory's Avatar
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    Re: Improving footstep technique.

    Quote Originally Posted by Caro View Post
    He is - I had a private with him last year and I remember him telling me to 'commit my hips' to him so that he could lead all my footwork (and I'm talking fancy syncopated stuff, not the basics)... impressive...
    I had a private with him last night and for me, he said, I had great frame and posture for ballroom and 'other' dances but for WCS, I've got to let it all go a bit loose!

    Thus, allowing him to create a whip (in the '9 tails' sense) reaction in me. So that whatever happens in my arms and shoulders, filters down to my feet.

    Its so different to anything I've done before

    It feels weird not to be in control of your own feet but it really works. (with the right lead of course!)

    Just a shame, I doubt there's many leads who've got the skill to lead it
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    Senior Member rubyred's Avatar
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    Re: Improving footstep technique.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lory View Post


    It feels weird not to be in control of your own feet but it really works. (with the right lead of course!)
    Just You Tubed Robert Royston to see who and what you were referring to, he looks fabulous - definite understatement. I recall the same feeling when I danced with a ballroom and latin instructor and I couldn't believe he got me to use my feet and dance patterns I had never danced before. Like you I thought how did I do that, I'd never learnt the steps but he was such a good lead I just did it!
    if you love the life you live then you'll get a lot more done

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    Registered User Easily Led's Avatar
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    Re: Improving footstep technique.

    Thanks to whoever sent me the link to the basic footsteps videos on the web. This is exactly what I need!

    BTW what is the difference between Columbian and Grapevine footsteps ?

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    Re: Improving footstep technique.

    Quote Originally Posted by Easily Led View Post
    Thanks to whoever sent me the link to the basic footsteps videos on the web.
    any chance of posting the link here?
    Or is there a reason for doing it privately?

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    Registered User Easily Led's Avatar
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    Re: Improving footstep technique.

    Quote Originally Posted by dep View Post
    any chance of posting the link here?
    Or is there a reason for doing it privately?
    Sorry, that is beyond my ability but perhaps the kind person who sent it could?

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    Re: Improving footstep technique.

    Quote Originally Posted by Easily Led View Post
    BTW what is the difference between Columbian and Grapevine footsteps ?
    Columbian is just walking forward/back I think, Grapevine is more side-ways movement crossing in-front, then behind.


    To lead people's footwork and position on the floor I need them to stop worrying about their footwork and position on the floor: normally I rely on the simple "walking" pattern - if your weight is on your right, then I expect it to be on your left on the next count.
    I can lead it to remain on one foot and I can lead a change of weight without moving - but to do this I need to know where your weight is now, and if it's not what I've lead or I am predicting it to be then it can go wrong.

    If you do triple steps, it's normally at a 'null' point where direction is changing. If you do them without the lead (normally you will have to) then the lead is stuck waiting for you to finish before leading the next movement... it also means that you will (normally) have to anticipate where this 'null' point is - if the lead didn't want to stop there, then you have forced them into having to complete the move the way you want rather than what they were planning.
    (In case you hadn't guessed, I don't like triple steps. )

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