Yes there is. The fact that there is an equal opportunities act and that men and women must be treated equally means that I do not need to say that the rules apply to both sexes. Until they come up with a non-gender specific version of "gentleman" I will carry on using men as my example
I agree with this policy in broad terms, but it does fail to take account of those (thankfully few) times when the refusal is given for a good reason. What if the lady in question has BO, yanks your arm badly, has already hurt you in the class, etc? Surely there shouldn't be a blanket ban on the right to refuse.
Sounds logical, but anyway, as there is a blanket ban at Andy's venue - I must tell my son, who has just arrived in Worthing for a holiday, and is on a budget....
Go to Andy's venue, have a few dances, then refuse if asked by a staff member to have a dance - and you get a free evening
Should save him a bit of cash
Good point...
Seeing as he is a hansome 19 year old, that can dance exceptionally well, been dancing MJ 3 years and has good musicality and is smooooth - I am sure the PYT's will target him They do at his local venue...
[of course I could just be a very biased parent ]
You never know, Andy might just let him in for free, just to entertain his PYT's
Last edited by Martin; 2nd-June-2008 at 05:31 PM.
Sorry, not good enough excuses. I've only come across one lady with BO in all my years of MJ. And the yanking is 50% down to the guy meeting the lady's force with an equal and opposite force - just give your hand away to her and chase after it. After a while she'll cotton on that you're not playing her game and stop yanking you. Also, I find the words "please stop pulling my hand, you're hurting" seem to work quite well
Next excuse please.
On the quoted example I'm sure many of us could see the point - perving so obviously invites a robust response.
Beyond that though I don't share the view that a gentleman never refuses a lady and wonder what the implication will be for visitors in future to the People's Republic of Sussex (PRS).
Sitting last night in the Blues Room at Southport I reluctantly turned down 2 ladies at the end of the night because my knee was so sore after a weekend of dancing I could hardly stand. It was not a postponement - I might never see the ladies again and in fact I went straight back to my room after the final refusal. I did apologise, but facts were facts and I said no. I could of course have said catch me later and then slipped away but better be straight I thought.
At our local venue we have a painfully shy guy that takes time to get to know people. In this brave new world should we now think of excluding him in advance - because I know that he will decline a lady this week or next week? Dancing has made him less shy so it would be a shame to curtail this now.
What about someone with a mature lady fetish - sorry preference that doesn't dance with the Pretty Young Things, would you be so quick to exclude him?
And do you also prohibit fixed partner dancing for lessons? Surely that is just saying no by another means?
The general feeling is that we want more men in dancing (although I confess that I'll miss being outnumbered by ladies). While the intention to target the more selfish dancers is laudable I'm plainly hoping that this idea does not spread outside the PRS borders because it's likely to cause lots of collateral damage.
On the gentleman thing, as an ex-military officer I've got a very developed view of what gentlemanly conduct is and I'd say that this does not imply never saying no to a lady, simply that you should always be truthful, polite, respectful etc in your dealings with everyone including ladies.
That being said, and where this thread started, the default answer should be yes unless you have a valid reason for declining. We all have different ideas of valid but I believe that off-hand refusals are still few and far between.
Last edited by Agente Secreto; 2nd-June-2008 at 06:01 PM.
Well it is rare, but I've certainly some across this more than once, and I'm sure I've not been dancing as long as Andy.It sems to me that you'd have to be quite nimble to react quickly in the manner described in order to "chase after" someone. Andy is an excellent dancer and I'm sure he has the skills to do this, but I reckon many people would struggle to react and transfer their weight so quickly. I'm sure Andy sets the volume to a reasonable enough level for people to have this sort of conversation. But this sadly isn't true in many venues.
I've told people they're hurting me before - it's quite hard to word such a comment in such a way that's tactful. It's a bit like telling people they have BO - telling them is the right thing to do, but not always easy.Not an excuse, but how do you advise leaders to deal with followers who dance slightly ahead of the beat, and "bouncy hand syndrome"?
Love dance, will travel
I think it's "gentlefolk".
I'm glad to hear you've improved your policy since a few years ago, when you said:
read full speech
I have come across 5 ladies with strong BO, but one dance is ok.
The yanking does get more complex.
Yes I can open my hand, I can also step forward where I would normally step back.
Often, opening my hand causes her to stumble, coz she is expecting me to "hold her up" - so it is not really "dancing".
There comes a point where you do not want to over do it... Sometimes better to refuse than humiliate.
I have also come across a few "over the top" ladies who take every oppertunity to grind, almost like they are trying to have sex with you on the dance floor. I should have the option to say no in this case.
I've come across several women with BO. There's also such things as garlic breath and cigarette breath that can make a dance very unpleasant. I wouldn't like to be told at my local venue that I must dance with these women under any and all circumstances.
Not all men are of a standard where they'd think of that. Also, there's the well-documented phenomenon of the Evil Vice Grip Of Death to contend with - it's hard to avoid being yanked or twisted awkwardly when your partner grips on for dear life, particularly in turns. I've come across several women who, even after I've explained that this hurts and asked them to relax their grip (in some cases more than once), just don't do it. After that point I avoid dancing with them, I think with justification. The fact that I have a dodgy shoulder that has been injured more than once by this sort of thing is an added reason why I would always want the right to refuse when necessary.
What if the lady had halitosis, an infectious skin disease on her hands, hadn't bathed for a month, had fleas and spat on her hands before dancing?
Seriously, there should always be the option of refusing a dance IMO. It should of course be the exception rather than the rule, but there is always the possibility of circumstances where a refusal is the best course of action.
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