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Thread: What are the differences between "playing", "hijacking" and "backleading"?

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    What are the differences between "playing", "hijacking" and "backleading"?

    I would really appreciate it if someone could explain the differences to me between “backleading”, “hi-jacking” and “playing”. [Is it one of those irregular verbs? “I play”, “You hijack”, “She backleads”?!].

    Also, after reading the various threads about leaders and followers in class, I’m a bit unclear now about what I should do in class when we are being taught new moves. If the man I’m standing with on the rotation hasn’t got a clue and I know what I should be doing, should I do it anyway, or should I just stand there because he isn’t leading it? And if he leads me wrong, should I go with his lead, or not? Once, in class, the teacher said "If the lead doesn't lead this, then followers, stand there until he does" and there were a lot of women who didn't move! Unfortunately, the teacher only said that the one time.

    I find once we get to freestyle some men expect me to get the taught move right even if their lead has been unclear, and if I don’t get it then they tell me it is my fault - obviously, because I’m a beginner so it’s always my fault! It's not that I'm not listening to what other people are saying about the follower having to be led properly for it to work, but out there on the dance floor, surely I have to do more than just be led well in order to get on and dance?

    I'm confused about this because I know I can get loads more moves right with good dancers, but I want to be able to get it right with other dancers too - is this a case of getting to understand particular men's signals and knowing their favourite moves so I become better at predicting what their leads mean, or is there something else I should be doing?

    With some men, it seems like I am constantly having to second guess what they are doing because their lead is more of a “waft”, or because the move we learnt in class could actually lead to any number of different moves, but could be presumed to be that particular one because that’s the one we just learnt…But if I correctly guess what my partner is trying to do and then I do it, isn’t that as much backleading as if I guess wrong about what he is trying to do and do something else by mistake?

    I wouldn’t yet have the nerve to deliberately try to do anything except follow, so at what stage does the follower start to make an active contribution to the dance, and how does one go about learning how to do it properly i.e. to “play” rather than “backlead”? Sometimes I feel a bit frustrated if I can hear a break coming up in the music and my partner just dances through it and misses the musical point – is this the kind of feeling that leads to hijacking?

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    Re: What are the differences between "playing", "hijacking" and "backleading"?

    The terms mean different things to different people but in general....

    Playing.... Is where there is bit of a break in the moves. The lead will give the follow a bit of space to do her thing.

    Hijacking.... Like sabotaging. Interupting a leads move to turn the leads move in to something different.

    Backleading.... Something norm unintentional. Where the follow pre leads the lead ie, pulling themselves in for a first move. Norm seen during classes

    Hope this helps

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    Re: What are the differences between "playing", "hijacking" and "backleading"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Moondancer View Post
    I would really appreciate it if someone could explain the differences to me between “backleading”, “hi-jacking” and “playing”. [Is it one of those irregular verbs? “I play”, “You hijack”, “She backleads”?!].
    Backleading: generally done in lessons when a leader isn't confident with a move - the follower leads does the followers's steps, and leads the leader into the leader's steps.

    Hi-jacking: the leader tries to lead move A, the follower disrupts the move and turns it into move B.

    Playing: mucking around to the music. Not generally led.

    Quote Originally Posted by Moondancer View Post
    Also, after reading the various threads about leaders and followers in class, I’m a bit unclear now about what I should do in class when we are being taught new moves. If the man I’m standing with on the rotation hasn’t got a clue and I know what I should be doing, should I do it anyway, or should I just stand there because he isn’t leading it?
    Tricky one, prone to a lot of debate. Depends on circumstances, and on the individuals concerned. To do the move regardless of the lead risks us poor deluded leaders into thinking we can lead it when we can't. To wait for a lead risks pulverising our fragile male egos into dust, grinding them underfoot, and leaving us devoid of any meaning or purpose. Use your best judgement

    Quote Originally Posted by Moondancer View Post
    I find once we get to freestyle some men expect me to get the taught move right even if their lead has been unclear, and if I don’t get it then they tell me it is my fault
    Smile sweetly (fragile male egos, bless) and backlead 'em? There's no right answer here, alas.

    Quote Originally Posted by Moondancer View Post
    obviously, because I’m a beginner so it’s always my fault! It's not that I'm not listening to what other people are saying about the follower having to be led properly for it to work, but out there on the dance floor, surely I have to do more than just be led well in order to get on and dance? [/FONT][/SIZE]

    [lots more that I don't have time to answer because I'm late again...]
    [unhelpful answer]This is why I'm glad I'm not a follower[/unhelpful answer]

    My best answer is: don't worry too much about this stuff. It is an issue - but it's best (I generally find) to prioritise your own enjoyment when things get dicey.

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    Re: What are the differences between "playing", "hijacking" and "backleading"?

    Quickly:
    Backleading - stepping yourself through a move, irrespective of what the lead does.
    Hi-jacking - interupting the lead and doing something other than the move lead/intended.
    Playing - being given a 'null' lead and doing something within that space.

    Gotta go

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    Re: What are the differences between "playing", "hijacking" and "backleading"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Moondancer View Post
    [SIZE=3][FONT=Arial]I would really appreciate it if someone could explain the differences to me between “backleading”, “hi-jacking” and “playing”.
    CARO! I believe this question was directed at you







    Sorry. Couldnt resist.

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    Re: What are the differences between "playing", "hijacking" and "backleading"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Moondancer View Post
    I wouldn’t yet have the nerve to deliberately try to do anything except follow, so at what stage does the follower start to make an active contribution to the dance, and how does one go about learning how to do it properly i.e. to “play” rather than “backlead”? Sometimes I feel a bit frustrated if I can hear a break coming up in the music and my partner just dances through it and misses the musical point – is this the kind of feeling that leads to hijacking?

    Missed this bit..

    I always tell people it is a man suggested dance, not a man lead. The follow only does what the lead suggests to them. A man who forces a woman in to a move should be avoided.

    I would say do it when it feels comfortable to do it.

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    Re: What are the differences between "playing", "hijacking" and "backleading"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Moondancer View Post
    I would really appreciate it if someone could explain the differences to me between “backleading”, “hi-jacking” and “playing”. [Is it one of those irregular verbs? “I play”, “You hijack”, “She backleads”?!].

    Also, after reading the various threads about leaders and followers in class, I’m a bit unclear now about what I should do in class when we are being taught new moves. If the man I’m standing with on the rotation hasn’t got a clue and I know what I should be doing, should I do it anyway, or should I just stand there because he isn’t leading it? And if he leads me wrong, should I go with his lead, or not? Once, in class, the teacher said "If the lead doesn't lead this, then followers, stand there until he does" and there were a lot of women who didn't move! Unfortunately, the teacher only said that the one time.

    I find once we get to freestyle some men expect me to get the taught move right even if their lead has been unclear, and if I don’t get it then they tell me it is my fault - obviously, because I’m a beginner so it’s always my fault! It's not that I'm not listening to what other people are saying about the follower having to be led properly for it to work, but out there on the dance floor, surely I have to do more than just be led well in order to get on and dance?

    I'm confused about this because I know I can get loads more moves right with good dancers, but I want to be able to get it right with other dancers too - is this a case of getting to understand particular men's signals and knowing their favourite moves so I become better at predicting what their leads mean, or is there something else I should be doing?

    With some men, it seems like I am constantly having to second guess what they are doing because their lead is more of a “waft”, or because the move we learnt in class could actually lead to any number of different moves, but could be presumed to be that particular one because that’s the one we just learnt…But if I correctly guess what my partner is trying to do and then I do it, isn’t that as much backleading as if I guess wrong about what he is trying to do and do something else by mistake?

    I wouldn’t yet have the nerve to deliberately try to do anything except follow, so at what stage does the follower start to make an active contribution to the dance, and how does one go about learning how to do it properly i.e. to “play” rather than “backlead”? Sometimes I feel a bit frustrated if I can hear a break coming up in the music and my partner just dances through it and misses the musical point – is this the kind of feeling that leads to hijacking?




    At the risk of being corrected by many people with far more than my 2 years of dancing experience:
    Back-leading for me is where the lady picks up what the man is trying to do and realises that he's not quite managed to lead it so she helps him out by doing what she thinks he might have wanted. Danger is he might have been trying to lead something entirely different of course

    Hi-jacking (sabotage) is where the man starts to do some move and the lady interrupts it and leads something entirely different, for me giving the guy a nice surprise but for some causing terror........

    Playing is where the lead deliberately leaves space for the follow to do her own thing and interpret the music as she sees fit - sometimes causing a startled look in the new follows but ultimately letting them express themselves more fully in the dance.

    Hopefully, my aim for the evening is to make sure I don't need the first one of these because my lead should be clear, react positively to the middle, and enable as much of the latter as I can. Happy to demo in person any time

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    Re: What are the differences between "playing", "hijacking" and "backleading"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lee Bartholomew View Post
    Missed this bit..

    I always tell people it is a man suggested dance, not a man lead. The follow only does what the lead suggests to them. A man who forces a woman in to a move should be avoided.

    I would say do it when it feels comfortable to do it.
    Lee makes a very important point. Any lead is an invitation for the follow to do a move and since dancing is not a dictatorship the lead should react gracefully if the lady occasionally does something slightly different - especially if it is something flash that makes both look good!. Of course we could debate what occasionally means................

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    Re: What are the differences between "playing", "hijacking" and "backleading"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Agente Secreto View Post

    Playing is where the lead deliberately leaves space for the follow to do her own thing and interpret the music as she sees fit - sometimes causing a startled look in the new follows but ultimately letting them express themselves more fully in the dance.
    hmmmmm........

    I think I am the first follower to answer this question - and with the exception of the above I agree with all the posts

    Playing is where the lead deliberately leaves space for the follow


    I don't think so...............................

    Playing is all about the music and musicality - I can 'play' in a dance with a beginner (with a scared face)

    I would freeze if my lead stopped and said "OK your bit now"
    (in fact it has actually happened to me a couple of times with 'know it all dancers' )

    Where's Trouble when you need her - she is even better than me in 'playing'
    Last edited by Minnie M; 27th-March-2008 at 07:00 PM.


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    Re: What are the differences between "playing", "hijacking" and "backleading"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Moondancer View Post
    If the man I’m standing with on the rotation hasn’t got a clue and I know what I should be doing, should I do it anyway,
    I'd say almost always, No. Some men take time to work through the move slowly in their head (slow processing speed ) and you'll only disrupt the process.
    If they're doing it wrong and looking frustrated and as if they can't actually understand 'why' you could gently ask them if they'd 'like' some help. D
    But don't be offended if they decline!


    And if he leads me wrong, should I go with his lead, or not?
    Yes, go with it, as he'll be able to see what he's 'actually leading'
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    Re: What are the differences between "playing", "hijacking" and "backleading"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Minnie M View Post
    hmmmmm........

    I think I am the first follower to answer this question - and with the exception of the above I agree with all the posts



    <B>
    Playing is where the lead deliberately leaves space for the follow
    </B>

    I don't think so...............................

    Playing is all about the music and musicality - I can 'play' in a dance with a beginner (with a scared face)

    I would freeze if my lead stopped and said "OK your bit now"
    (in fact it has actually happened to me a couple of times with 'know it all dancers' )

    Where's Trouble when you need her - she is even better than me in 'playing'
    Trouble and I have played many times, it has rarely if ever been static. I'm sure that she will give us the benefit of her input soon and hope that she does manage to confirm creating space does not imply the lead freezing and looking expectantly at the follow in a know-it-all dancer sort of a way.

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    Re: What are the differences between "playing", "hijacking" and "backleading"?

    I don't think the three terms share much common ground really.

    Backleading has been well explained in previous posts.

    Hijacking I would define as the follow interrupting a move midway through to either
    * lead the leader (i.e leader becomes follower temporarily)
    or
    * lead the leader & themselves in a variation of the move that was being led originally
    or
    * lead the leader & themselves in a completely different move
    Essentially, the follower becomes the leader for a while before handing control back.

    Playing is harder to satisfactorily define but I would say it is the additional stuff (decoration, maybe?) that a follower adds to a move or between moves. Sometimes this extends the timing of a move but I don't see it as fundamentally changing the move in the way that hijacking does. I find the situations where the follower interprets the music whilst still following the shape of the move being led (and I acknowledge that many MJ moves do not necessarily lend themselves to this), much more satisfactory than the playing at the end of the move style. I am not a great fan of the 'face the leader and wiggle up and down a lot' school of following but maybe other leaders are?

    Oh, and Lory, DO SEXY for me!

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    Re: What are the differences between "playing", "hijacking" and "backleading"?

    Oh i love to play. Dancing for me is all about playing.

    I have a very simple and basic strategy. Firstly you let the lead do his stuff, if your feeling comfortable you block a move which i would normally do by grabbing a hand or two and literally blocking them. I would then do the move i like to do at the time which is normally a little bit naughty/cheeky and leaves the lead smiling, embarassed, shocked, horrified or confused depending on how well they know me.

    I do not lead a leader if they are not leading properly as this does not allow them to learn. I may advise them if they ask for it or if in a class but i do not lead a beginner in moves they may be stuck on.

    With Mr Agent Secreto however, he is cheeky, naughty and saucy all on his own. I still like to try and get him in positions he is not used too. Playing with him is wot its all about LOL xx

    Minnie, i learnt to play from you missy xxxxxxx

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    Re: What are the differences between "playing", "hijacking" and "backleading"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Trouble;463200/
    ............Minnie, i learnt to play from you missy
    moi


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    Re: What are the differences between "playing", "hijacking" and "backleading"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Trouble View Post
    With Mr Agent Secreto however, he is cheeky, naughty and saucy all on his own. I still like to try and get him in positions he is not used too. Playing with him is wot its all about LOL xx
    Trouble - you still surprise me in every dance we have, one of the things that makes a guy come back for more and maybe why DTS always has that silly grin on his face

    Quote Originally Posted by Minnie M View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Trouble View Post
    Minnie, i learnt to play from you missy xxxxxxx

    moi
    Minnie M, sounds like someone new to play with, Southport?

    Moondancer, have the posts help clarify?

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    Re: What are the differences between "playing", "hijacking" and "backleading"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Moondancer View Post

    Also, after reading the various threads about leaders and followers in class, I’m a bit unclear now about what I should do in class when we are being taught new moves. If the man I’m standing with on the rotation hasn’t got a clue and I know what I should be doing, should I do it anyway, or should I just stand there because he isn’t leading it? And if he leads me wrong, should I go with his lead, or not?
    If i am learning a new move as a lead i always appreciate help with the learning process
    Its really hard when the class is full of improvers who think that as i am a taxi i will know all 600 intermediate moves
    When a follow comes to me first time (or sometimes second or even third) walk through of a new intermediate move that we are learning its always nice to have help learning it

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    Re: What are the differences between "playing", "hijacking" and "backleading"?

    Thank you, yes, that does help, and the posts explain the terms nicely. I'm a long way off playing!

    I've also come across that thing when the leader stops and expects me to wiggle suggestively, but the couple of times it's happened I've been a bit slow on the uptake and not realised straight away that's what I was supposed to do - I've thought I just missed a cue to do something, then when I've realised what I should have been doing I've been too 'cold' to launch into it from a frozen "what did I get wrong" glazed rabbit position. And anyway, if I wanted to wiggle suggestively I would have been wiggling round the guy anyway - I don't need him to turn himself into a pole for me to dance round!...not sure the whole 'pole' thing works very well on confused beginners like me.

    I'm still not clear about the following/backleading issue in class. I think when I'm a better dancer then I may have more confidence to not do what the leader is not leading properly, but as a beginner I always get the blame (!) so I feel it's better not to stand out as getting something "wrong" again! By definition, the majority of the men I am dancing with are more experienced than me, and therefore if I don't get something right then it can't be their lead, can it? (Ahem!) So for practical reasons because I want to actually get some dances during the course of the evening, I need to be as friendly and co-operative as possible, and not dent the fragile egos! I think because of this, I need to continue to learn moves as well as learning to follow.

    What really gets me feeling low is when a lead does a move on me I've never seen, I don't get it because I can't tell what they are trying to do, then they tell me it's my fault for not knowing the move. It's a frustrating part of beginnerdom, and I feel it would really help if teachers made leading properly a bit more of an upfront issue in the class. I get the impression that a lot of the men think that the point of teaching moves is for both the followers and the leads to learn, so that the follow knows the move and will do it correctly for the lead. From what I read on this forum, the moves are being taught to the lead so he can lead them, and the follow so she can recognise the lead - but not so she can predict what he is trying to do and do it for him no matter whether he does his bit right or not...or have I misunderstood?

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    Re: What are the differences between "playing", "hijacking" and "backleading"?

    The reaction from the leader might be:
    playing - , hijacking - , backleading -

    or it might be:
    playing - , hijacking - , backleading

    As a follower you don't know what reaction you will get until you do it, but you will probably pick the wrong option.

    In other words ladies - now you know how men feel off the dance floor.

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    Re: What are the differences between "playing", "hijacking" and "backleading"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Trouble View Post
    Oh i love to play. Dancing for me is all about playing.

    I have a very simple and basic strategy. Firstly you let the lead do his stuff, if your feeling comfortable you block a move which i would normally do by grabbing a hand or two and literally blocking them. I would then do the move i like to do at the time which is normally a little bit naughty/cheeky and leaves the lead smiling, embarassed, shocked, horrified or confused depending on how well they know me.
    I have been there and I am sure that I went the brightest RED ever, when Trouble decides to steal you have no choice.

    Looking forward to your next steal, I wonder how Red you make me this time

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    Re: What are the differences between "playing", "hijacking" and "backleading"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Trouble View Post
    i would normally do by grabbing a hand or two and literally blocking them. I would then do the move i like to do at the time which is normally a little bit naughty/cheeky and leaves the lead smiling, embarassed, shocked, horrified or confused depending on how well they know me.
    The guy's who've responded on here, all seem 'very' happy but have you ever had a bad reaction, where you've sensed the guy's disapproval?
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