Freestyles vs Weekenders

[Sparkles]

It is undenyable that in recent years there have become more and more weekenders.

It now seems that in a number of cases, clubs and organisations will move or deliberately plan freestyles so that the do not clash with weekenders.

The result seems to me to be more weekends when if you're not on a weekender there are precious few freestyles to choose from and if there's no weekender then there's a clash of several freestyles all going on at the same time.

Some of us can't afford to do every weekender going - either in time off work or in money spent; but I can understand that from the organisers' points of view it is better business-wise not to clash with major weekender events to get substantial numbers of people at their freestyles.

I want to make it perfectly clear that I am not pointing my fingers at any particular organiser/ation, and am just briniging this up as a general point for discussion.
Is there a way to please everyone?
Have the overall number of fresstyles dropped since the introduction of more weekenders or have they just been reshuffled?
Is it a problem everywhere in the UK or is it geographically sensitive?
Is it really a problem at all?

[ducasi]

Earlier this month, Ceroc Scotland rescheduled their monthly Glasgow party as result of Ceroc Storm weekender in the south of England. Not because of any potential problem with absent punters, just the real problem of absent organisers.

[Twirly]

When I went to Hammersmith in Feb when Southport was on, I was expecting it to be a much quieter night than normal. I couldn't have been more wrong - it was heaving, as per usual.

I based my expectations on going to a Greenwich freestyle last year when there were other events on (think it might have been Southport again, and a major freestyle out of London in the SE), when it was extremely quiet (though I still had a good time).

London may be different due to the larger population of dancers and it's ability to draw people in, but I agree with Sparkles that it can be frustrating is there's no freestyle due to a weekender being on. Do dancers in other regions find this?

[TA Guy]

Is it a problem everywhere in the UK or is it geographically sensitive?
Is it really a problem at all?

We're close to quite a few weekenders and freestyle numbers often suffer, but I've never known a freestyle cancelled/rearranged or anything because of a weekender. It's business as usual, so it's not a problem in central South; it's a least a bit geographically sensitive.

[Rocky]

I understand your point Sparkles but there is no way around it. If an organizer books a freestyle on a weekend that clashes with a weekender it's unlikey that there will be enough good dancers to go around and those attending the event will then not enjoy it. This of course leads to the problem of not having enough freestyles around the same time as a large number of organizers and dancers will be absent.

Likewise, if events are moved so as not to clash, you will get more freestyles to choose from which could again spread the number of available dancers between different venues.

In any event, resources like the Forum allow people to find out in advance where most other people are going - and this of course, will benefit some events more than others.

As organizers all we can do is make decisions based on what we feel the majority would prefer and then try and fit that in with the very limited venue availability. We then have to market it and try and run the best event we can in the hope that those that make a decision to attend will enjoy the evening.

As I mentioned on another thread, we've pulled all the stops out for Ashtons on the 4th in terms of encouraging the very best dancers to attend and will gender balance the event to ensure that there should always be someone to dance with. We've then organized something different in the tag blues class and invited Marc and Rachel down to participate, and for Marc also do join in with the DJing. We've also spent over £200 on extra material to decorate the venue and will have both Marc and Mac involved in the lighting to truly create an ambience that I don't think will ever have been experienced at Ashtons before.

We recognize that people will have a choice of other places to go that night and therefore want to ensure that if they do choose to support UTOPIA that we will have done everything in our power to make sure they leave with a smile on their face. Not to mention the free tea/coffee and cakes and choccie..

[fletch]

As I mentioned on another thread, we've pulled all the stops out for Ashtons on the 4th in terms of encouraging the very best dancers to attend and will gender balance the event to ensure that there should always be someone to dance with. We've then organized something different in the tag blues class and invited Marc and Rachel down to participate, and for Marc also do join in with the DJing. We've also spent over £200 on extra material to decorate the venue and will have both Marc and Mac involved in the lighting to truly create an ambience that I don't think will ever have been experienced at Ashtons before.

We recognize that people will have a choice of other places to go that night and therefore want to ensure that if they do choose to support UTOPIA that we will have done everything in our power to make sure they leave with a smile on their face. Not to mention the free tea/coffee and cakes and choccie..

IMO people buy people.

If you can see a venue trying to look after there punters it goes a long way.

I like weekenders, cuz I can dance later, the thing I hate the most is when a free style closes at 11.30 / 12.00 its far to early

3 am finish at Utopia i'll be there.



ps will the balcony be open

[robd]

We've also spent over £200 on extra material to decorate the venue

How many framed photos of Silverfox did you get for that money?

[Sparkles]

I understand your point Sparkles but there is no way around it.

I appreciate your reply, but what I'm trying to find out is whether this is really true. Is there really 'no way around it'?

As Twirly has said, sometimes weekenders/other freestyles clashing with a fresstyle event affects numbers, sometimes it doesn't. Sometimes it's an opportunity for people to try something new and sometimes it means they're spoilt for choice.

I understand that from a business point of view, for a frestyle to be financially viable, you need to get the people through the door - but maybe it would be better for freestyles to be run regularly irrespective of weekend events so that word gets out and people know an event will definitely be at a certain time in a certain place?
Or, maybe there should be fewer weekenders, especially if some a barely making a profit, to enable the organisers around the country to make more money and offer a wider choice in their regular freestyle events?

Hypothetical situation:
If, for example (and I don't know if this is the case or not), a number of organisations are having to move/reorganise/deliberatly plan their freestyles so as not to clash with each weekender (of which there are more and more) and, in doing so are creating tensions between freestyle event organisers because several events in a similar geographical location end up clashing... is this really a good idea?
Does it mean that overall less money is being made and fewer people are being given the opportunity to dance?

[Robin]

Well, maybe it depends on whether the franchisee knows that a lot of their regulars are going to be away no ? For example, it may seem a bit pointless to run a freestyle if over half of your regulars will be away ?

Just for your info though, Tezi has been trying to organise the CerocMetro freestyles so that there is a minimum of one freestyle every weekend irrespective of weekenders - which is pretty impressive!

[DavidB]

As someone who would far rather go to a freestyle than a weekender, I hope organisers continue to put on events, even if they clash with a weekender.

David

[Gus]

As someone who would far rather go to a freestyle than a weekender, I hope organisers continue to put on events, even if they clash with a weekender.

I suppose we are fairly lucky in the N West in that the only events we have to avoid are Southport. None of the Ceroc events/weekenders have much impact and none of the independents have organised any workshop weekenders of enough clout to make much difference.

[Astro]

When I went to Hammersmith in Feb when Southport was on, I was expecting it to be a much quieter night than normal. I couldn't have been more wrong - it was heaving, as per usual.

I remember that night - we were both there Twirly.

I found out later that the reason it was heaving was because a lot of freebies had been emailed out.

It was the only Hammersmith I didn't enjoy as there were hardly any of my favorite dancers there.

[Rocky]

I understand that from a business point of view, for a freestyle to be financially viable, you need to get the people through the door - but maybe it would be better for freestyles to be run regularly irrespective of weekend events so that word gets out and people know an event will definitely be at a certain time in a certain place?

I agree on the whole, which is why we always try to run our event on a regular basis, 2nd Friday every month unless circumstances dictate otherwise. However, as regards weekender clashes, I would also say that it depends on the event. I wouldn't, for example, expect a weekender to have a tremendous impact on a normal Ceroc freestyle night. But UTOPIA is aimed at a niche market and therefore we believe it is better to avoid clashes, wherever possible, to maintain the integrity of what we are trying to achieve.

Or, maybe there should be fewer weekenders, especially if some a barely making a profit, to enable the organisers around the country to make more money and offer a wider choice in their regular freestyle events?

Well it depends on how you view weekenders.. if you believe that organizations put them on just to make profit then you're right. But in Ceroc's case that is not the primary reason for running weekenders. Sure they would like to make a profit, but with a National brand there are so many other factors that are beneficial to the brand that profit is not the key tipping point. Weekenders support the brand by offering a service to customers that encourage new people to develop their dancing. They also
support franchisees in certain areas and help to support teachers and DJs by giving them a wider audience. Finally of course it fulfills a requirement from a competitive point of view. So different organizations will have different agendas and profit is not necessarily at the top for all (or any) of them. Well, for Franco it probably is, which is why he runs all of the service orientated parts of his weekenders by himself regardless of the impact on his customers...

Hypothetical situation:
If, for example (and I don't know if this is the case or not), a number of organisations are having to move/reorganise/deliberatly plan their freestyles so as not to clash with each weekender (of which there are more and more) and, in doing so are creating tensions between freestyle event organisers because several events in a similar geographical location end up clashing... is this really a good idea?
Does it mean that overall less money is being made and fewer people are being given the opportunity to dance?

I'm not actually aware of many freestyle events in isolated geographical areas where changes in dates has a tremendous impact on people's enjoyment of dancing. I, of course, do not agree with organazitions who delibrately move events to clash with competitors, but then we are always quick to critcize without necessarily knowing all the facts - sometimes venue changes and circumstances force changes and this can often be mis-interpreted.

At Utopia, we published all of our events for the whole of 2008 in Dec 2007, so people had a chance to plan around other things that they may wish to consider doing. I can't say we will never change published dates for the reasons I mentioned in the previous paragraph, but we will always endeavour to be open about our dates and venues and let people know of any changes as soon as is practicable.

[Lory]

At Utopia, we published all of our events for the whole of 2008 in Dec 2007, so people had a chance to plan around other things that they may wish to consider doing.

This is very useful, as I run my life by my google calender. Its very handy to be able to add all the dates in one fell swoop.

[Lost Leader]

This is very useful, as I run my life by my google calender. Its very handy to be able to add all the dates in one fell swoop.

If only the Ceroc Chilterns web-site could tell you about their free-styles even a couple of months ahead.

[robd]

I wish organisers would combine the two - Free Weekenders would be perfect

[Trouble]

As I mentioned on another thread, we've pulled all the stops out for Ashtons on the 4th in terms of encouraging the very best dancers to attend and will gender balance the event to ensure that there should always be someone to dance with. We've then organized something different in the tag blues class and invited Marc and Rachel down to participate, and for Marc also do join in with the DJing. We've also spent over £200 on extra material to decorate the venue and will have both Marc and Mac involved in the lighting to truly create an ambience that I don't think will ever have been experienced at Ashtons before.

Not to mention the free tea/coffee and cakes and choccie..

I agree on the whole, which is why we always try to run our event on a regular basis, 2nd Friday every month unless circumstances dictate otherwise.
At Utopia, we published all of our events for the whole of 2008 in Dec 2007, so people had a chance to plan around other things that they may wish to consider doing. .

Great free advertising there Rocky..... and there you go, i just plugged it again for ya.

[Astro]

The normal Ashtons Friday Freestyle used to be the 3rd Friday of the month which made it easy to plan ahead.

Hammersmith used to be the 4th Saturday of the month.

Ealing was the 1st Friday of the month.

[stewart38]

I agree on the whole, which is why we always try to run our event on a regular basis, 2nd Friday every month unless circumstances dictate otherwise.


At Utopia we published all of our events for the whole of 2008 in Dec 2007 , so people had a chance to plan around other things that they may wish to consider doing. I can't say we will never change published dates for the reasons I mentioned in the previous paragraph, but we will always endeavour to be open about our dates and venues and let people know of any changes as soon as is practicable.

I think if we are given warnings there shouldnt be a problem

Places like Chesham, Hammersmith Berko seem to keep freestlyes when weekenders are on